Green's blocking Amex expansion plans? Steve Bassam

[DanielT]

i found that one as I was looking for this tweet specifically:

SteveTheQuip Steve Bassam
[MENTION=13823]jason[/MENTION]kitcat Look I try & take you seriously as a politician but it is hard when you are so evasive. I will try & help you.


i would have thought that was a bit hypocritical! a politician accusing someone of evasion and citing that as the reason NOT to take him seriously as a politician!?

 

[sir albion]

The Greens have been a f***ing disaster for brighton - glad to seem my council tax being increased as well. Shat in my recycling bin this morning as a protest.....

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

I don't know that it's 'essential' though it would have been bloody handy.

Alex Dawson OO OO (or whatever he's called) knows more, but my info about BACA comes from his posts a few months ago.

I was pretty sure a car park at BACA was going ahead, but that BACA are dragging their feet. He was implying that they're not interested. Why not? Who knows? Possibly that they want to use it six days a week...

Someone did mention knocking down some more UoB buildings - whether that has legs or not...?

In the original stadium planning application the club proposed that 2,000min-2,200max car parking spaces would be made available for supporters at the Univ of Sussex and Falmer High School (or elsewhere within a 1.5km radius of the Amex). This is what was approved by, initially, the Govt and now by BHCC. At the time, Falmer High School was on council owned land but with the school becoming an Academy (BACA), the council now has no input and the land is owned by the Academy itself. My understanding in early2010 was that the Academy management advised they didn't want football parking on the site, certainly whilst building work was being carried out, and there was no indication that they ever would permit - hence the "panic" development of Bennett's Field in summer 2011, albeit on a temporary (max 3 year) basis, in order to meet the minimum car parking requirements (2,000 spaces) specified in the stadium planning consent. I don't know whether the Academy management now has changed its view but in any case the Green Party is in no position arithmetically to scupper any planning application on there own since they don't have a majority on the Council itself or the Planning Committee.

 

[B.W.]

In the original stadium planning application the club proposed that 2,000min-2,200max car parking spaces would be made available for supporters at the Univ of Sussex and Falmer High School (or elsewhere within a 1.5km radius of the Amex). This is what was approved by, initially, the Govt and now by BHCC. At the time, Falmer High School was on council owned land but with the school becoming an Academy (BACA), the council now has no input and the land is owned by the Academy itself. My understanding in early2010 was that the Academy management advised they didn't want football parking on the site, certainly whilst building work was being carried out, and there was no indication that they ever would permit - hence the "panic" development of Bennett's Field in summer 2011, albeit on a temporary (max 3 year) basis, in order to meet the minimum car parking requirements (2,000 spaces) specified in the stadium planning consent. I don't know whether the Academy management now has changed its view but in any case the Green Party is in no position arithmetically to scupper any planning application on there own since they don't have a majority on the Council itself or the Planning Committee.

So are the expansion plans fcuked, or NOT?

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

So are the expansion plans fcuked, or NOT?

No idea but I guess it'll all come down to transport management and whether the scheme/plan proposed is deemed sustainable and adequate for 30K or so fans without causing undue disruption to the club's neighbours. Having attended a number of the Falmer/Amex planning committee meetings over recent years, I would, if a member of the planning committee, want to see this to be transparent and part of the application - not as a "TBD", post approval and remaining undisclosed as is the current transport plan.

 

[Lethargic]

So worse case scenario could we settle for a compromise say adding just 3000 extra seats or is it all or nothing?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

So are the expansion plans fcuked, or NOT?

Good question.

No idea but I guess it'll all come down to transport management and whether the scheme/plan proposed is deemed sustainable and adequate for 30K or so fans without causing undue disruption to the club's neighbours. Having attended a number of the Falmer/Amex planning committee meetings over recent years, I would, if a member of the planning committee, want to see this to be transparent and part of the application - not as a "TBD", post approval and remaining undisclosed as is the current transport plan.

Good answer.

 

[4-p]

i was told the other day that it was Bassam who stopped the stadium going to Waterhall, i heard that he wouldn't support anything in brighton other than Shoreham power station? which is why we had to go onto Lewes turf?
it was quite a convincing tale, and makes me wonder why he is hitting kitkat so hard, maybe too hard?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

i was told the other day that it was Bassam who stopped the stadium going to Waterhall, i heard that he wouldn't support anything in brighton other than Shoreham power station? which is why we had to go onto Lewes turf?
it was quite a convincing tale, and makes me wonder why he is hitting kitkat so hard, maybe too hard?

Steve had the foresight to know that Waterhall would have been fought tooth and nail by the Brighton & Hove Tories AND the green wing of the B&H Labour Party (aka Joyce Edmond Smith and friends).

 

[supaseagull]

At the time, Falmer High School was on council owned land but with the school becoming an Academy (BACA), the council now has no input and the land is owned by the Academy itself.

That's not correct.

The land is still owned by the Council, but they have leased it on a 99 year lease to the Academy.

Under the terms of the lease, the council will still have the final say as to whether any developments take place on this piece of land, as they have for PACA in Portslade.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

That's not correct.

The land is still owned by the Council, but they have leased it on a 99 year lease to the Academy.

Under the terms of the lease, the council will still have the final say as to whether any developments take place on this piece of land, as they have for PACA in Portslade.

I stand corrected on the land ownership then. However, my understanding from the council last year was that it was now nothing to do with BHCC and entirely a matter for the Academy whether space would be made available for car parking.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

I am not too fussed either way. We have a glorious 22500 stadium now which no one can take away and even if we get no more seats, which isn't remotely warranted at the moment imo and would only be if we go into the premiership within 5 years it is 100 times better than sitting in the pissing rain in the South Stand at Withdean with 6000 other numpties.

 

[Postman Pat]

I stand corrected on the land ownership then. However, my understanding from the council last year was that it was now nothing to do with BHCC and entirely a matter for the Academy whether space would be made available for car parking.

I think that is right for the part the academy is on, but this 'row' is that the other old building (the south building for any ex-falmer pupils), is still owned by the council and is what they are trying to get the deal for.

Bassam is saying there was a proposal to knock it down and the club to build a temporary car-park and community centre, but the Greens withdrew it.

Greens saying they want a permenant solution, not a temporary one (like Bennet's field).

 

[Uter]

Just to clear up any confusion and to underline PPs post, the first link contains a map of the site on the last page. The land in green is the new academy. The land in blue is the part of the old school site for which the council have retained ownership and this is the subject of the Bassam/Kitcat dispute.

http://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/4AA5F7DB-F90D-4D13-87F3-AB772B77071E/13220/Item13HistoricalResourceCentre.pdf

This document (from 2007) summarises the outcome of a feasibility study to look into what to do with this land and how much it would cost.

http://present.brighton-hove.gov.uk/Data/Policy%20&%20Resources%20Committee/20070628/Agenda/$Item%2026.%20Falmer%20Academy%20report.doc.pdf

I think the key points are:

As far back as 2007 there were no plans for parking on the BACA site, only the retained land.

In order to develop this site with a mixed use development the railway bridge needs to be widened to improve access and the community centres relocated.

The cost of doing these two things (estimated in 2007 at £2.7M and £2.5M respectively) would be more than the value of the site (£3.75M) plus any available grants (£0.9M).


We can only guess what offer was tabled by the club, but it wouldn't surprise me if it involved offering to meet the council's valuation plus any shortfall in return for flattening the old school and being allowed to use it as a car park and widening the bridge.

I think the Greens want get more out of the site, but in order to do so they will need to get a developer on board. Could be a tall order and take a long time.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

I am not too fussed either way. We have a glorious 22500 stadium now which no one can take away and even if we get no more seats, which isn't remotely warranted at the moment imo and would only be if we go into the premiership within 5 years it is 100 times better than sitting in the pissing rain in the South Stand at Withdean with 6000 other numpties.

What about the 2,000 fans on the waiting list, do they not deserve to see their local football team play?

 

[Stoo82]

What about the 2,000 fans on the waiting list, do they not deserve to see their local football team play?

Its closer to 10,000 tan 2,000.

 

[Simster]

Its closer to 10,000 tan 2,000.

Are you sure? You think we'd have 28,000 season ticket holders if the ground was big enough?

 

[Simster]

I am not too fussed either way. We have a glorious 22500 stadium now which no one can take away and even if we get no more seats, which isn't remotely warranted at the moment imo and would only be if we go into the premiership within 5 years it is 100 times better than sitting in the pissing rain in the South Stand at Withdean with 6000 other numpties.

I actually agree with you. The current stadium capacity is large enough to accommodate most who will want to see the games. If the Amex had another 8,000 seats, there is no way on earth we'd have 18,400 season ticket holders, IMO.

 

[keaton]

What about the 2,000 fans on the waiting list, do they not deserve to see their local football team play?

Have we sold out the home allocation every match? I didn't think we had

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

Its closer to 10,000 tan 2,000.

Not sure where you're getting that from, at the moment I understand the wating list is at 2,000. There will inevitably be some current season ticket holders that will drop away.

I think if we increased capacioty to say 28,000 in the summer, for most games we would still average around 20-22,000 but a number of games would attract an extra 2,000 or so of away fans and we would be more likely looking at 25-28k attendances, especially ofr games like Palace and Saints. We would sell out every week in the Premiership with a 30k capacity but unfortunately half the home crowd will be shouting for the opposing team.