Greece crisis: Europe on edge over snap election

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Tsispras:

In a televised address, he described the plan as "humiliation" and condemned "unbearable" austerity measures demanded by creditors.

Merkel:

German Chancellor Angela Merkel had urged Athens to accept what she called an "extraordinarily generous" offer

They may be trouble ahead.

 

[TomandJerry]

Tsispras:

In a televised address, he described the plan as "humiliation" and condemned "unbearable" austerity measures demanded by creditors.

Merkel:

German Chancellor Angela Merkel had urged Athens to accept what she called an "extraordinarily generous" offer

They may be trouble ahead.

Greeks, he said, were being subjected to “humiliation and blackmail”. “These proposals, which clearly violate the European rules and the basic rights to work, equality and dignity, show the purpose of some of the partners and institutions was not a viable agreement for all parties, but possibly the humiliation of an entire people,” he said.

 

[cunning fergus]

At the centre of the EU is a bunch of self interested bureaucras and politicians keen to keep maximising their personal the spoils? But this is the same at the heart of any government. We are better off within the EU in this world

This is true to a point, however the most pro EU party in the UK is the LibDems, and how did they fair at the last election? Further how did Labour do in their Scottish heartlands in the last election?

The British electorate can change the destiny of their country if they want.

In the EU we can't............as Dennis Skinner would say, the British Parliament should have primacy on British laws.

Frankly, people are never better off with a policy of defeatism or apathy...........at the moment we are at the thin end of a massive wedge. Greece, Italy and Cyprus all indicate the power that exists with a largely unelected EU.

Of course it's your choice to stay on the bus.........you wont be alone.

 

[cunning fergus]

the thing the Greek government dont seem to understand is that if they dont get the loan, they can afford the pensions and everything else they want to spend. if anyone hasnt been paying attention, this is just a final installment of an old bail out, and in the summer they would be arranging a new one to cover the next few years. but they act like they deserve this money as a right.

as the weeks and months have past, they have alienated, insulted and pissed off everyone including their one time allies. the reports that Merkel, who has been trying to keep the door open, told them to "shut up" at the dinner last night tells us they've burnt all their bridges.

I don't disagree, however I guess we are now at the final destination of a long winding journey that began when the euro was first created.

If it wasn't Greece now it would be something else in the future, the point is you cannot square this economic crisis without a political mandate. The Greek PM has a political mandate but no executive economic power, whereas the EU/IMF etc has the economic power over Greece without any political mandate.

I appreciate countries like Argentina when they have gone bust loose political independence, however this is different because of the currency union and how it is managed.

To be fair to William Hague when he was electioneering against joining the euro, which was a position that was advocated by Blair, he described the euro as a burning house with no exits.............it may survive this crisis, however unless a political union is created in the EZ it is f@cked.

 

[Triggaaar]

We are better off within the EU in this world

Why? A country like Switzerland seems to be able to trade well enough without being in.

 

[TomandJerry]

"Jeroen Dijsselbloem, head of the eurogroup, has just arrived in Brussels.

He tells reporters that:

I am very negatively surprised by today’s decision by the Greek government

They have apparently rejected the final proposals from the Institutions.

Dijsselbloem is also unimpressed that the Greek government is recommending rejecting the proposal:

That is a sad decision for Greece, for it has closed the door on future talks."

 

[Dandyman]

I hope the Greeks keep fighting against the attempts to turn them into a nation of paupers.

The crisis has a number of starting points but one of the major ones was the supply of cheap credit by German banks seeking to develop export markets for the German economy combined with massive tax evasion by the elite in Greece (supported by the London property market) plus widespread corruption.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

did anyone tell them thats after they've defaulted?

Greece can default , the IMF allow 30 days grace for a missed loan repayment. Could end up with Greece doing a "Palarse" and offering 1 cent in the euro before they reform as Greece 2015

 

[Danny-Boy]

Greece can default , the IMF allow 30 days grace for a missed loan repayment. Could end up with Greece doing a "Palarse" and offering 1 cent in the euro before they reform as Greece 2015

Alternatively cast Vlad as Tony B, and he will bail out Greece FC and move them to a massive new country. Like Chad. Meanwhile all the Russian oligarchs squabble over which Greek island they're given..

 

[TomandJerry]

Edit:

Stubb (Finland) and Guindos (Spain) both used same expression: 'Plan B' is fast turning into 'Plan A'. Not looking good at all. #Greece

 

[TomandJerry]

"Germany’s finance minister, Wolfgang Schäuble, arrives, and tells a scrum of reporters that there appears to be no basis for further talks with Greece :

GERMAN FINMIN SAYS GREECE HAS DECIDED TO END NEGOTIATIONS

GERMAN FINMIN SAYS NO BASIS FOR FURTHER TALKS WITH GREECE"

"Ireland’s Michael Noonan says he is “disappointed” that Greece appears to have unilaterally ended negotiations.

He had hoped that finance ministers would have closed the gaps between the two competing proposals at today’s meeting.

I don’t know what happens next week, it’s impossible to speculate. We’re entering totally uncharted waters, Noonan adds."

 

[Danny-Boy]

The whole situation to me was inevitable once the Eurocrats decided not to install any exit-mode for the currency. Coming from Germany that smelt horribly like the former political longterm ideals..

If you create a system as complicated as the euro, you should have planned for a way out if one of the weaker economies couldn't cope with it. If in fact Germany benefited from initially pumping money into Greece for tourist schemes etc. by getting preferential business contracts to install them, then they really have made their own apple-pie bed.

 

[dingodan]

European Union:

Would you rather bend over? Or get down on your knees?

Greece:

No.

Good for them I say.

 

[TomandJerry]

Greece’s prime minister was getting a standing ovation from his MPs as he arrived for today’s referendum debate

"Newsflash: Yanis Varoufakis has told Reuters that he will ask fellow finance ministers for a bailout extension of “a few weeks” to accommodate the referendum."

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

European Union:

Would you rather bend over? Or get down on your knees?

Greece:

No.

Good for them I say.

But the alternative may be far, far worse.

 

[dingodan]

But the alternative may be far, far worse.

Worse than bending over/getting on your knees?

Nah.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

I hope the Greeks keep fighting against the attempts to turn them into a nation of paupers.

The crisis has a number of starting points but one of the major ones was the supply of cheap credit by German banks seeking to develop export markets for the German economy combined with massive tax evasion by the elite in Greece (supported by the London property market) plus widespread corruption.

Agree entirely about the cheap credit from Germany (and France) much of which was spent on military equipment, and about the massive tax evasion (it's not just the rich, it's endemic throughout Greek Society) and about the corruption.

I have lots of Greek friends, indeed I spoke to one today about the situation, and I go there at least twice a year, and listen to what the man in the street says. They have (now being reduced) a massively bloated public sector, and retirement ages and pensions that were simply unsustainable. They do know that, but many Greek pensioners are using their pensions to help out their unemployed kids.

Pretty much all of the Greeks I know do want to stay in the Euro, but they could find themselves sleepwalking to an exit.

 

[beorhthelm]

Worse than bending over/getting on your knees?

Nah.

say, your head getting cut off?

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

But the alternative may be far, far worse.

No , not the Justin Bieber concert

 

[dingodan]

say, your head getting cut off?

I think the worse alternative he was talking about was an exit from the EU. As far as I am aware decapitation is not one of the possible outcomes here, correct me if I'm wrong.