GOD: How much do you believe in him?

[Tyrone Biggums]

I see, so despite the fact that 'God' is merciful it's okay to look down on gays ? Well I suppose it can't be judging by the number of paedophile priests that the Catholic Church has tried so hard to ignore. I suppose these men of God are Godomites.

Who said it's ok to look down on gays? Surely you have more intelligence than to base the opinions of a few as to what the whole believe?

Are all football fans total ***** because they are so openly homophobic?

You really do tend to seem a one trick pony when it comes to these discussions. Why you would bring up paedophiles when they have absolutely no relevance to this discussion at all is perplexing.

 

[lichfield seagulls]

Don't normal read books but however reading 17 pages of this its all bloody good stuff keep up the good work...

 

[Mackenzie]

I'm surprised this thread has reached 17 pages (and counting), I didn't think many people gave a monkeys about religion any more. The church service in my village this morning has attracted a massive 12 people in the congregation. Each to their own I say.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

have you ever read the egyptian book of the gods? If you have, you will have noted it was written many hundreds of years before the bible and yet the bible has many identical stories. I wonder why?

That's because most religions/cultural beliefs have a common ancestry, that being humans...

The fact that you can take various religions, cultural/tribal beliefs from around the world and draw parrallels between them suggests there's either something universal at work within the human brain or there's an element within the cosmos thats had a hand in preconditioning the human mind to take up such thoughts.

What you have just brought up is an example of something that could be a small indicator something bigger is at play.

 

[bhaexpress]

Who said it's ok to look down on gays? Surely you have more intelligence than to base the opinions of a few as to what the whole believe?

Are all football fans total ***** because they are so openly homophobic?

You really do tend to seem a one trick pony when it comes to these discussions. Why you would bring up paedophiles when they have absolutely no relevance to this discussion at all is perplexing.

All fans are homophobic ? That's just another example of your ridiculous opinions. Anti Gay chants are just a wind up, even you can't be that stupid. After all, are all fans anti bestiality (given the ways some clubs are 'sheep shaggers'. As far as the Paedo issue goes it's very much part of the reason why religion is a cancer to society, the fact that it has been ignored so clearly speaks for itself. The only one trick pony is you you with your insane beliefs for which there is no justification, whilst you cannot prove the existence of any higher authority those of us who know better don't have to prove that he doesn't because there's nothing to suggest that he/she/it exists. Next thing you know you'll be demanding that we prove that the tooth fairy exists.

It's interesting that you are clearly losing your temper, maybe you just can't bear the idea that all that time on your knees has been a waste of time.

 

[piersa]

Any tenuous link will do i suppose. My word. You clearly have not read the Egyptian book of the gods. These exact same events purportedly happened hundreds of years apart. The list is endless. it really is.

If you feel better believing in an all powerful being and still treat people well, good luck to you.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

All fans are homophobic ? That's just another example of your ridiculous opinions.

You need to read more carefully. I asked ARE all football fans homophobic, thus the question mark at the end.
Some how that ends up in your rebuttal as a statement, not a question. So the flaw isn't my opinion, it's in you inability to read what's before you.

Anti Gay chants are just a wind up, even you can't be that stupid.

Where there's smoke there's fire. just because they laugh it off and say its only a wind up doesnt mean they don't believe it. I mean unless you're homophobic resorting to "gay" as some kind of insult wouldn't even enter your mind.

After all, are all fans anti bestiality (given the ways some clubs are 'sheep shaggers'.

Another form of bigotry isn't it?

As far as the Paedo issue goes it's very much part of the reason why religion is a cancer to society, the fact that it has been ignored so clearly speaks for itself. The only one trick pony is you you with your insane beliefs for which there is no justification, whilst you cannot prove the existence of any higher authority those of us who know better don't have to prove that he doesn't because there's nothing to suggest that he/she/it exists. Next thing you know you'll be demanding that we prove that the tooth fairy exists.

Paedophilia is a disease that permiates the WHOLE of society. If you are unable to understand that concept then so be it.

There is no onus on anyone having to prove what they believe in and that includes a god. You either believe or you don't.

I would defend your right to not believe as much as I would defend someones right to believe.

It's interesting that you are clearly losing your temper, maybe you just can't bear the idea that all that time on your knees has been a waste of time.

Internet mistake #1.

Reading your own emotions or preconceived ideas into other peoples posts.

I'm so far from angry it's not funny. The fact that you think having such a discussion on these matters is some point scoring pursuit shows a rather childish and closed minded attitude to actually having a decent debate.

If you want to have an "internet fight" go for it, knock yaself out. I'll even say "you're the winner" if it makes you feel better?

There's been some interesting views raised within the thread concerning the matter, not sure you've posted in that spirit.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Any tenuous link will do i suppose. My word. You clearly have not read the Egyptian book of the gods. These exact same events purportedly happened hundreds of years apart. The list is endless. it really is.

If you feel better believing in an all powerful being and still treat people well, good luck to you.

Feel better?

It has nothing to do with "feeling better". It's about looking beyond preconceived ideas.

Those being the ideas of religions/faiths AND those of atheists.

If you're content that you think you know the absolute truth good for you.

You are then in the same boat as those who follow a god and purport that they also know the absolute truth.

 

[bhaexpress]

You need to read more carefully. I asked ARE all football fans homophobic, thus the question mark at the end.
Some how that ends up in your rebuttal as a statement, not a question. So the flaw isn't my opinion, it's in you inability to read what's before you.



Where there's smoke there's fire. just because they laugh it off and say its only a wind up doesnt mean they don't believe it. I mean unless you're homophobic resorting to "gay" as some kind of insult wouldn't even enter your mind.



Another form of bigotry isn't it?



Paedophilia is a disease that permiates the WHOLE of society. If you are unable to understand that concept then so be it.

There is no onus on anyone having to prove what they believe in and that includes a god. You either believe or you don't.

I would defend your right to not believe as much as I would defend someones right to believe.

Internet mistake #1.

Reading your own emotions or preconceived ideas into other peoples posts.

I'm so far from angry it's not funny. The fact that you think having such a discussion on these matters is some point scoring pursuit shows a rather childish and closed minded attitude to actually having a decent debate.

If you want to have an "internet fight" go for it, knock yaself out. I'll even say "you're the winner" if it makes you feel better?

There's been some interesting views raised within the thread concerning the matter, not sure you've posted in that spirit.[/QUOTE]

No a question of winning or losing save the fact that you're a loser for letting a fantasy figure rule your life.

 

[readingstockport]

I've alway thought that any being that could send 2 bears to rip 42 children to pieces for the 'sin' of laughing at a bald man either does not exist or is certainly not loving if it does.

Personally I go on the 'does not exist' as there is no evidence of any kind at all for either the existance of sky pilot nor for the historical existance of the son.

But even if sky pilot did exist I would reject it for slaughtering the children. I am better and have better morals than your imaginary friend does - end of.

 

[NMH]

You mean its not unique to humanity.

A gay man is more likely to cop a beating from a football fan than he is from a religious person.

You might see a couple of religious nutters shouting homophobic slurs every now and then. If you want to hear it more frequently and by bigger numbers go to the football.

Hmm, not so sure about that mate. Gay jibes from football crowds are basically banter, and although many people may not like what homo sex is they still may be alright about individuals "as long as they keep it behind their own closed doors" etc.
Now if you go around kissing another bloke at a football gathering, I'd suggest such open displays of gayness might attract more aggressive attention in football crowds.
More than likely there would be 'open disgust' displayed back at you.

In Christianity it's supposed to be about forgiveness and the ideal that all can be accepted to the Church with their sins, so of course the environment will be friendlier.
You could confess to shoplifting at church and prayed for your forgiveness - but go to a cop shop and do that and they're not likely to be so understanding!

The nouveau religious can be unbearable pratts actually, bearing down on everyone with their pious righteous verbage like they are good vs your evil.

But human nature extends to gays too, and try being straight in a gay environment! There are aggressive faggots who don't like their exclusive domains invaded, I can tell you! It can get downright hypocritical when you think how gays want to be free etc, yet can be unbearable intolerant idiots when it comes to their own world.
The 'secret love' part of homosexuality appears to be as interesting a feature to them, that I don't know if they'd actually even want to let go of the surreptitious hide-away aspect of their liaisons.
But I digress; when it comes to religion there are few places that will actually turn away homos or berate them in the Western cultures, but in other places you are up for a stoning!

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

No a question of winning or losing save the fact that you're a loser for letting a fantasy figure rule your life.

You're no better than the closed minded religious bigots.

Well done you.

 

[piersa]

Feel better?

It has nothing to do with "feeling better". It's about looking beyond preconceived ideas.

Those being the ideas of religions/faiths AND those of atheists.

If you're content that you think you know the absolute truth good for you.

You are then in the same boat as those who follow a god and purport that they also know the absolute truth.

I am agnostic and do not think we know for certain what happens when we die. However common sense and science dictate that there is a 99% chance that there is no god. If you choose to ignore the facts, that is your choice. I suggest you educate yourself instead of leading yourself further down a blind alley of faith. If after you have aducated yourself, you still believe in a god, then fair enough.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Hmm, not so sure about that mate. Gay jibes from football crowds are basically banter, and although many people may not like what homo sex is they still may be alright about individuals "as long as they keep it behind their own closed doors" etc.Now if you go around kissing another bloke at a football gathering, I'd suggest such open displays of gayness might attract more aggressive attention in football crowds.
More than likely there would be 'open disgust' displayed back at you.

Which would be the attitude of 99% of religious types to homosexuals.

I don't disagree with anything you've said as it's the minorities that are used as examples of the majoirty by the small minded. I merely used the football fans as an example of how easy it is to transpose the actions of a few to slight the actions of the majority.

In Christianity it's supposed to be about forgiveness and the ideal that all can be accepted to the Church with their sins, so of course the environment will be friendlier.
You could confess to shoplifting at church and prayed for your forgiveness - but go to a cop shop and do that and they're not likely to be so understanding!

Misinformation is the nature of both sides of this arguments beast. People from both sides have a go at each other because they don't posses the knowledge of the others to understand where they are coming from.

The nouveau religious can be unbearable pratts actually, bearing down on everyone with their pious righteous verbage like they are good vs your evil.

Fundamentalist Christians aren't even Christian. Everything they do defies what is written and taught on the whole.

But human nature extends to gays too, and try being straight in a gay environment! There are aggressive faggots who don't like their exclusive domains invaded, I can tell you! It can get downright hypocritical when you think how gays want to be free etc, yet can be unbearable intolerant idiots when it comes to their own world.
The 'secret love' part of homosexuality appears to be as interesting a feature to them, that I don't know if they'd actually even want to let go of the surreptitious hide-away aspect of their liaisons.
But I digress; when it comes to religion there are few places that will actually turn away homos or berate them in the Western cultures, but in other places you are up for a stoning!

Agreed on the digressing, no idea how it was even relevant to this discussion or why it was brought up.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I am agnostic and do not think we know for certain what happens when we die. However common sense and science dictate that there is a 99% chance that there is no god. If you choose to ignore the facts, that is your choice. I suggest you educate yourself instead of leading yourself further down a blind alley of faith. If after you have aducated yourself, you still believe in a god, then fair enough.

Common sense and science only dictate what humans can comprehend.

If you're basing all you know on "common sense" you'd have been one of those people who said man can't nor should fly.

Added you can't be an agnostic. Your views indicate nothing that suggests you are open to the possibility of outside influence on humanity. An agnostic won't simply take "facts" as being the end of the thought process.

I am educating myself, unlike you. I'm completely open minded to all theories and potential possibilities no matter who putd them forth.

How you can claim to be educated when you seem so closed minded is interesting though.

 

[Kazenga <3]

There's a starman waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet us, but he thinks he'd blow our minds. There's a starman waiting in the sky, he's told us not to blow it, cause he knows it's all worthwhile. He told me; 'Let the children lose it'; 'Let the children use it'; 'Let all the children boogie'.

 

[piersa]

Common sense and science only dictate what humans can comprehend.

If you're basing all you know on "common sense" you'd have been one of those people who said man can't nor should fly.

Added you can't be an agnostic. Your views indicate nothing that suggests you are open to the possibility of outside influence on humanity. An agnostic won't simply take "facts" as being the end of the thought process.

I am educating myself, unlike you. I'm completely open minded to all theories and potential possibilities no matter who putd them forth.

How you can claim to be educated when you seem so closed minded is interesting though.

If you think man can fly you are more deluded than i thought. I think you will find man needs assistance to fly, in the same way that man needs assistance to be brainwashed with religious rhetoric.

Did you educate yourself with the youtube video?

 

[teaboy]

Common sense and science only dictate what humans can comprehend.

If you're basing all you know on "common sense" you'd have been one of those people who said man can't nor should fly.

Added you can't be an agnostic. Your views indicate nothing that suggests you are open to the possibility of outside influence on humanity. An agnostic won't simply take "facts" as being the end of the thought process.

I am educating myself, unlike you. I'm completely open minded to all theories and potential possibilities no matter who putd them forth.

How you can claim to be educated when you seem so closed minded is interesting though.

So you believe in EVERYTHING? ALL possibilities? Without the need for ANY evidence of ANYTHING? Try using the upstairs window next time you leave the house - there's a possibility we're wrong about gravity...

 

[Acker79]

Just some general observations on catching up this morning... I think this discussion has lots of generalisations by both sides. I think there is confusion between religion and God. I think some people are projecting their beliefs onto the beliefs of everyone in their group (e.g. people who suggest their views on religion are what all atheists believe)*, and people projecting the beliefs of the person their discussing issues with as representative (e.g. people projecting Mr Burn's views on to El Presidente's)*. If you want to believe in God you don't have to prove it to anyone. If you want other people to believe in your God, then you might be asked to. If you want them to believe and they require proof, then yes, you have to prove it to them (or give up on trying to convert them).

*No specific incident being cited, just an explanation of what I mean

As a converted atheist, I look at the evidence that overwhelmingly suggests that life evolved on this planet. I believe that this is inconsistent with the existence of a deity, and therefore, in the abscence of any evidence to the contrary, God as defined by the major religions of this planet does not exist.

I don't know how much of a conversion I've had. I was christened, but didn't go to church regularly (or at all, except special occasions). But other than the conversion part this is much my view. Plus the existence of so many religions makes me doubt them all. If there is a god, he isn't the god of any religion I know of, and if an afterlife exists, your belief or not in him isn't what dictates whether you get in.

Which would be the attitude of 99% of religious types to homosexuals.

I would argue that is a warped estimate, because...

Fundamentalist Christians aren't even Christian. Everything they do defies what is written and taught on the whole.

You are dismissing anyone who's definition of Christian doesn't fit with what you want it to be. Several times in this thread you mention the bible being parables, not intended to be taken seriously, but that's not what all Christians believe. Who are you to define who is and isn't a proper Christian? Some sections of Christianity believe the bible to be literal. Even larger numbers still believe homosexuality to be wrong. If you include everyone who claims to be a Christian then the number of people who believe homosexuality is a sin will grow to a more significant number than your estimate of 1%.

But even one per cent isn't insignificant when you look at demographics of homosexuality and religion. In 2010, 1% of the uk population were recorded as gay. A youguv poll this year suggested 53% of people denoted christian as their religion on the census (7% denoted other). So, one percent of half the population v one percent of the whole population means for every two gay people, there is one christian opposed to homosexuality.

It should also be noted that Christianity isn't the only religion to oppose homosexuality, and your 99% isn't 'christians who follow my form of christianity' it is 'religious types'. Whether you accept them as christians or not, fundamentalist christians are 'religious types'. (And to be fair, there are probably atheists who are opposed to homophobia, too).

 

[goldstone]

Not at all. Created by people in a time long ago without the knowledge of science.

Precisely.