GOD: How much do you believe in him?

[Tyrone Biggums]

You can end the argument everytime by asking a regilious person to prove it.

They don't need to prove he exists, no more than an atheist has to prove he doesn't.

That's the bottom line.

I'd say to anyone who believes in god, prove it to me, and I'll believe. I would love nothing more, believe me, than to start another life with my parted loved ones, after this life ends. I'm open to be proved that there is a god, and that there is another life after this one, and that I have a "soul". I want to believe it so badly. But I am also a reasoning, intelligent person, that can think for myself, and draw my own conculsions, without input from others. And too date, no one as even come close to making me believe there is a god?

I don't understand why they need to prove to you a god exists?

Perhaps you need to go back to the start and explore spirituality, maybe there's answers there.

 

[beorhthelm]

You have no evidence that proves there isn't a god.
...
Using science to counter things said in the bible is 100% non relevant evidence.

i dont need science, just my own eyes to prove there is no benevolent, all powerfull god. what to refine him and carry on? as already highlighted the bible self contradicts the whole concept, so maybe we should refine this basic tenet, because its clearly, irrefutably wrong.

I see humanity in that description.

i see in that description only the evil in hunmanity. if you see that in all, you have my pity.

 

[Triggaaar]

I prefer religious people to keep their religion to themselves, and not judge me by their religious standards. But some atheists annoy me, too - those that talk about wanting those that believe to keep there religion to themselves, then are quick to let you know they are an atheist, to challenge people who believe and so on.

One could be equally annoying whichever side of the fence we were on. But you don't tend to get atheists preaching in a town square as you do men of faith.

I find it interesting that there's those atheists who love to cry that it's human made yet don't take in the actual implications of that.

The concept of a "god" has been around a long time. Quite posisbly since the inception of homo sapiens, maybe even preceding that.

Now for such a concept of a "god" to just come into the minds of people limited in their concept of the world around them is quite a profound perception.

It's hardly profound. People would die due to a lack of rain, or animals to hunt, or because of an ice age or scorched landscape, so it's not exactly profound that they wondered why, what had they done to deserve their fate. And with a lack of understanding, believing that there there was a higher power in charge is to be expected. Religion then became very useful for controlling people (and it still is).

It very much appears the human brain does carry within it a preprogramed set of instructions to ensure certain things occur to ensure the species continues. Without this we would not know fear or have the desire to protect our offspring.

That applies to every species there is.

To simply put such things down as products of "chance" would be no different to someone who puts it down to "a god" hard wiring the brain with these innate instructions.

Who put it down to chance? That's not how evolution works.

I just feel nobody can explore the concept of a god until they actually open their mind to navcigate around the bibles interpretation of "a god" in the sky sitting on clouds and be rid of the atheist flat out "i can't see it so it doesn't exist" closed mentality.

Far from a closed mentality, atheists grew up being told there was a god, and they learnt to think for themselves. Or do you think Darwin had a closed mentality? I've never heard an atheist justify their view on the basis of not being able to see god. I've a couple of Christian friends who refuse to read/watch anything about evolution - how's that for a closed mentality.

 

[Mr Burns]

They don't need to prove he exists, no more than an atheist has to prove he doesn't.

That's the bottom line..

Sorry?? Without weak minded people who beleive in their various "Gods" an atheist would not exsist. Would they?

So if you want to go around brain washing people into beleiving in some all powerful "god", then surely you would need to prove its exsintance, or at least have answers for people that don't take your every word as blind faith.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

First of all you have to define God though.

Absolutely.

The answer to that is that it comes down to individuals own defintions of a god.

That's where a lot of atheists come undone in that they also focus soley on the God in the sky who sits in the clouds as do many religious people.

I disagree, the Bible said the world was made in seven days, carbon dating suggests that is not the case. The Bible suggested that the animals went onto the Ark two by two, on the basis of the number of species in existence, the Ark could not be built by man based on the carpentry techniques at the time to accommodate so many creatures.

You're taking an ancient manuscript literally?

Most of those parables could be afforded an alternate meaning with an open mind.

For example, Adam and Eve.

Personally I don't think Adam and Eve were two individuals. I'm more inclined to believe that Adam is a representation of man, Eve likewise for women.
Adam is the awakening/rise of homo sapien man from what proceded him which would still tie in with the theory of evolution.

I mean if the bible is written by homo sapiens it stands to reason they will start writing about the coming of their kind, not of those before whom they would have known next to nothing about.

 

[Triggaaar]

You have no evidence that proves there isn't a god.

As I said earlier, humans will never prove that god doesn't exist, it's not possible.

Using science to counter things said in the bible is 100% non relevant evidence.

Proving that a lot of the Bible is made up nonsense does not prove there is no god (ie, any creator), but it does show how fake the god we're taught about is.

 

[Mr Burns]

The concept of a "god" has been around a long time. Quite posisbly since the inception of homo sapiens, maybe even preceding that.

.

I've just knicked this quote from another posters quote. Did you really say that? How the hell would you know that? You can date a "concept" back to before "the inception of homo sapiens"? ? ? ? ? Wow!! Is that what someone told you to beleive? That is arrogence beyond beleif

 

[birthofanorange]

See, this is what bothers me from both perspectives. Words like 'benvolent', 'cruel', 'caring', 'omnipotent' etc..etc.. are bandied around, as though God (if it exists) can be defined in such simple human terms.

Sure, we can define our personal concept of God...and there will be many variations, yet each believes theirs to be right.

But this has no bearing on the possibility of a God existing or not existing. Education and science has brought us into an incredible world that we almost take for granted, certainly one which would have been perceived as 'Godlike' in our not too distant past.

It seems as though even Mr. Burns would welcome the proof of God's existence, as I'm sure we all would. So why not accept the possibility? That I cannot comprehend.

 

[El Presidente]

I mean if the bible is written by homo sapiens it stands to reason they will start writing about the coming of their kind, not of those before whom they would have known next to nothing about.

And that presumably means they know nothing about God, if, of course, he exists.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Sorry?? Without weak minded people who beleive in their various "Gods" an atheist would not exsist. Would they?

Weak minded people?

Some of the greatest minds in the history of humanity have held religious of various various types.

You seem to be under the impression that nobody with a religious faith has ever questioned their beliefs and explored why they believe.

So if you want to go around brain washing people into beleiving in some all powerful "god", then surely you would need to prove its exsintance, or at least have answers for people that don't take your every word as blind faith.

You realise you're brainwashed too?

We all are.

By many different things too, there's no one human who's not been touched by brainwashing.

 

[El Presidente]

It seems as though even Mr. Burns would welcome the proof of God's existence, as I'm sure we all would. So why not accept the possibility? That I cannot comprehend.

But surely that argument could be extended to welcoming the proof of Santa's existence, would you accept the possibility of that too?

 

[Mr Burns]

It seems as though even Mr. Burns would welcome the proof of God's existence, as I'm sure we all would. So why not accept the possibility? That I cannot comprehend.

How is that so hard to comprehend? I do not accept the possibility of being able to dive into the sea unaided and swim across the oceans under water, visiting the underwater world as an industrutable being. I love to be able to, and if someone showed me how, I do it in a flash. Same with regilion, if someone showed me god, I beleive and follow him.

But if someone asks me to have faith and beleive in him/it with no proof, I no more likely to follow god, then I am to jump into the ocean unaided and start my underwater adventure, of the back of someone telling me to just go for it and have faith it will be okay.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

And that presumably means they know nothing about God, if, of course, he exists.

Maybe they did. If a concept is so big how do you describe it in laymans terms?

You write it in a way that the average person will be able to follow it better.

I believe science also would employ this method to describe complicated things to the layman.

There's still enough out there in the natural world to show we often underestimate the ability and knowledge of our ancient forbearers.

 

[El Presidente]

As I said earlier, humans will never prove that god doesn't exist, it's not possible.

True, it is impossible to prove a negative. You could equally say that we cannot prove that there is a planet out there made exclusively of Marmite. However the overwhelming evidence suggests that it is highly unlikely.

 

[Mr Burns]

Weak minded people?

Some of the greatest minds in the history of humanity have held religious of various various types.

You seem to be under the impression that nobody with a religious faith has ever questioned their beliefs and explored why they believe.




You realise you're brainwashed too?

We all are.

By many different things too, there's no one human who's not been touched by brainwashing.

Am I. Okay. But in typical regilous rambling, you've managed to completely ignore the point put to you.

Originally Posted by Tyrone Biggums
The concept of a "god" has been around a long time. Quite posisbly since the inception of homo sapiens, maybe even preceding that.
.
REPEAT. I've just knicked this quote from another posters quote. Did you really say that? How the hell would you know that? You can date a "concept" back to before "the inception of homo sapiens"? ? ? ? ? Wow!! Is that what someone told you to beleive? That is arrogence beyond beleif

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

You can end the argument everytime by asking a regilious person to prove it.

I'd say to anyone who believes in god, prove it to me, and I'll believe. I would love nothing more, believe me, than to start another life with my parted loved ones, after this life ends. I'm open to be proved that there is a god, and that there is another life after this one, and that I have a "soul". I want to believe it so badly. But I am also a reasoning, intelligent person, that can think for myself, and draw my own conculsions, without input from others. And too date, no one as even come close to making me believe there is a god?

So. Prove it to me.

I cannot prove it,strip away all religious connotations and look at the very existence and it is some coincidence

The Earth's magnetic field-protecting us from harmful solar rays.
Jupiter's gravitational pull-protecting us from large objects hitting Earth from deep space.
The moon's effect on the Earth's tides.
The Earth's tilt.
The Ice caps.
The seasons.
The food chain.
The 4500 million years in the making of the planet.
Volcano's that take & give life.
Nature,study on sheep shows they are more intelligent than we credit.
The sheer wonderment of the fragility of the planet,yet the amazing longevity too.
The scale upwards and downwards of the whole.
Hubble Telescope looking into a deep(once believed) empty area of sky,only to find on closer inspection-Galaxy's colliding into another.

Why,how?



I still ask the question,always.

no i cannot prove it,but with the aid of evolution(these things take time) i'd say it's there for all to see.

 

[birthofanorange]

How is that so hard to comprehend? I do not accept the possibility of being able to dive into the sea unaided and swim across the oceans under water, visiting the underwater world as an industrutable being. I love to be able to, and if someone showed me how, I do it in a flash. Same with regilion, if someone showed me god, I beleive and follow him.

But if someone asks me to have faith and beleive in him/it with no proof, I no more likely to follow god, then I am to jump into the ocean unaided and start my underwater adventure, of the back of someone telling me to just go for it and have faith it will be okay.

Maybe one day it WILL be possible for someone to do just that. Who would have believed Usain Bolt could smash the world record like that? People and science are constantly evolving and what seems impossible now probably won't be in the future.

I'm not asking you to have faith - I have none myself, but I don't choose to limit myself by ignoring possibilities. That is a blinkered view, imo.

 

[Triggaaar]

Without weak minded people who beleive in their various "Gods" an atheist would not exsist. Would they?

So if you want to go around brain washing people into beleiving in some all powerful "god", then surely you would need to prove its exsintance, or at least have answers for people that don't take your every word as blind faith.

Indeed without people believing is god we wouldn't have atheists, everyone would be the same with no definition, but that does not mean that since there are people that believe, they have to prove it.

That's where a lot of atheists come undone in that they also focus soley on the God in the sky who sits in the clouds as do many religious people.

Undone? I disagree.

Most of those parables could be afforded an alternate meaning with an open mind.

As science advances, more 'facts' from the bible turn into generalisations and fables, to protect the religion from its flaws.

Adam is the awakening/rise of homo sapien man from what proceded him which would still tie in with the theory of evolution.

There was no single first homosapien. There was no one day when one species became extinct and we emerged, it was a gradual process, and if you could see all our ancestors lined up, you wouldn't be able to decide which one was the first homosapien. However, the period where our species did become what is now referred to as homosapien was many thousands of years before any scripture. The open mind you need to believe the bible is the same one you need to believe all the nostradamus predictions (and I'm not saying you need that mind to believe in god, which is a much easier game, but to believe the bible is accurate).

I mean if the bible is written by homo sapiens it stands to reason they will start writing about the coming of their kind, not of those before whom they would have known next to nothing about.

Firstly, as above, the 'coming of their kind' was many thousands of years before the old testament. If the bible had been written honestly it would have documented human events, but it professes to be the word of god.

 

[Mr Burns]

Maybe one day it WILL be possible for someone to do just that. Who would have believed Usain Bolt could smash the world record like that? People and science are constantly evolving and what seems impossible now probably won't be in the future.

I'm not asking you to have faith - I have none myself, but I don't choose to limit myself by ignoring possibilities. That is a blinkered view, imo.

No what I said will not be possible. It is not possible for a human being to live uaided underwater. It would need for us to evolve into another species. It may happen one day. Unlikely.

A lot of people beleives it was possible for Usain Bolt to run that fast. Many Many people beleive its possible for a human to run faster, and not doubt in people who are alive todays lifttime, a human will run 100m in under 9 seconds.

By asking me not to limit myself by ignoring possibilities, possibilities I think are impossible, then are you not asking me to have faith??

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I've just knicked this quote from another posters quote. Did you really say that? How the hell would you know that? You can date a "concept" back to before "the inception of homo sapiens"? ? ? ? ? Wow!! Is that what someone told you to beleive? That is arrogence beyond beleif

Arrogance?

It's scientific reasoning.

Your concept of what constitutes a god seems to be skewiff. Do you actually believe all of a sudden in 1200 BC belief in deities just appeared out of thin air?

The likelihood that Homo Erectus and Homo Sapiens interbred as evidenced by the Neanderthal Genome Project shows that it's quite plausible that the seeds for deities existed in those that came before us to explain things like lightning or thunder for example.