George Osbourne and Vodaphone

[El Presidente]

In the 2010 accounts Vodafone have a £56m tax liability on profits of £8.674 BILLION.

This works out as an effective tax rate of 0.64%

We're all in together!

 

[El Presidente]

at the risk of introducing some information to the procedings, albiet from one side, here's Vodafones PR.



i will also point out that back in the years following the Mannesmann merger, they posted a record loss due to the drop in value of intangible assets/goodwill (iirc). i wonder if they had not moved funds through Luxembourg then the profit this tax is on would have been swallowed up there anyway? one for corporate accountants.

The Mannesman goodwill issue is irrelevant for tax purposes, as it only arises in the group accounts, and individual companies, not groups, are subject to corporation tax.

 

[El Presidente]

HSBC have probably more customers and they are re-locating to the far east for tax purposes. It's easy-peasy for these PLCs to move base.

They can move base, but would still be liable to witholding tax on their UK earnings before repatriating it to their new tax base.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

How much is the liability of Tesco, El Pres?

 

[El Presidente]

How much is the liability of Tesco, El Pres?

Profit before tax 2,954
Taxation (788)
Profit for the year 2,166

Effective tax rate 26.67%

 

[El Presidente]

As I have taught creative accounting courses at both Bear Stearns and Lehman Bros I can TRUMP any financial shenanigans of Vodafone

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

They present it in annual year format so that 2010 figure was for 3 months. In 2009 they paid 1.1 billion in tax and 2008 2.2 billion

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Profit before tax 2,954
Taxation (788)
Profit for the year 2,166

Effective tax rate 26.67%

Thanks. Interesting.

I wonder how much income the country loses from creative accounting (be it firms or individuals), black market, cash in hand and so on...

 

[El Presidente]

They present it in annual year format so that 2010 figure was for 3 months. In 2009 they paid 1.1 billion in tax and 2008 2.2 billion

You are wrong, it is the figure for 12 months.

 

[El Presidente]

Thanks. Interesting.

I wonder how much income the country loses from creative accounting (be it firms or individuals), black market, cash in hand and so on...

It's a moot point, a fair tax system, with relatively low rates, can often generate higher tax revenues than one with high rates as there is less incentive to 'do a foreigner'.

The rough estimate for tax fraud is £15 billion, compared to £1 billion for benefit fraud.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It's a moot point, a fair tax system, with relatively low rates, can often generate higher tax revenues than one with high rates as there is less incentive to 'do a foreigner'.

The rough estimate for tax fraud is £15 billion, compared to £1 billion for benefit fraud.

And what is the average amount per 'entity' for tax fraud? And per person for benefit fraud?

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

You are wrong, it is the figure for 12 months.

Ok, but still to ignore the massively higher taxes in the previous two years is to present a slightly unfair picture. They are a massive tax contributor to the UK.

And these figures don't include all the VAT that their staff contribute through their wages.

 

[El Presidente]

Ok, but still to ignore the massively higher taxes in the previous two years is to present a slightly unfair picture. They are a massive tax contributor to the UK.

And these figures don't include all the VAT that their staff contribute through their wages.

That's fine, would you be happy if I paid 0.64% of my income as tax this year on the grounds that I paid 40% of it for the two previous years?

I wasn't aware that employees paid VAT on their wages though, but I'm sure you can prove otherwise...

 

[El Presidente]

And what is the average amount per 'entity' for tax fraud? And per person for benefit fraud?

Tax fraud includes both individuals (cash in hand jobs), and corporates.

It is however dwarfed by the £120 billion that the Treasury loses a year through legitimate tax avoidance.........damn those accountants.

I've worked as a consultant to HMRC, they are trying to fart against thunder in their pursuit of revenue from large corporations. The world today is flat, and relocation costs are low, so as much as people gnash their teeth against the excesses of bankers and other corprorate greedmunchers, it won't raise much more money for skools and nurses uniforms.

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

That's fine, would you be happy if I paid 0.64% of my income as tax this year on the grounds that I paid 40% of it for the two previous years?

I wasn't aware that employees paid VAT on their wages though, but I'm sure you can prove otherwise...

Not on their wages, but definitely on all the products they buy with them.

 

[auschr]

I thought the four poorest got the free beer, not the richest... oh well

 

[El Presidente]

Not on their wages, but definitely on all the products they buy with them.

....and they would still have paid over that VAT if Vodafone had paid a higher amount of corporation tax, you are being very disingenuous here.

 

[Castello]

Apart from the fact that the £6bn figure is an urban myth (as said by the HMRC) top ranting.

Why is it that the left is always quickest to get nasty and personal so quickly? Harman is a prime example.

So... You took an urban myth and then vented your spleen, trotting out the usual party politics cliches. You're no different from the average Daily Mail reader in expressing ignorant prejudice.

HSBC have probably more customers and they are re-locating to the far east for tax purposes. It's easy-peasy for these PLCs to move base.

Anyway, we have in this thread the usual rag-tag of bitter lefties who are indulging in a mutual wankathon without knowing even a small part of the facts. You tell 'em comrades!


*gonna start a revolution from my bed*:guitar:

Usual Left wing outrage mainly based on drivel.....nothing new for our 'brothers' on NSC!

Yes I do see the point you are making about lefties always being teh first to get nasty and personal.

A bit like the fact that the ranting right believe were all in it together

 

[Barrel of Fun]

BBC News - UK in talks with tax havens in bid to raise £10bn

Good.