Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

George Osbourne and Vodaphone



DIFFBROOK

Really Up the Junction
Feb 3, 2005
2,267
Yorkshire
From Independent http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-protest-works-just-look-at-the-proof-2119310.html

So we are all in this together, eh George? The rest is a good article as well.


In my column last week, I mentioned in passing something remarkable and almost unnoticed. For years now, Vodafone has been refusing to pay billions of pounds of taxes to the British people that are outstanding. The company – which has doubled its profits during this recession – engaged in all kinds of accounting twists and turns, but it was eventually ruled this refusal breached anti-tax avoidance rules. They looked set to pay a sum Private Eye calculates to be more than £6bn.

Then, suddenly, the exchequer – run by George Osborne – cancelled almost all of the outstanding tax bill, in a move a senior figure in Revenues and Customs says is “an unbelievable cave-in.” A few days after the decision, Osborne was promoting Vodafone on a tax-payer funded trip to India. He then appointed Andy Halford, the finance director of Vodafone, to the government’s Advisory Board on Business Tax Rates, apparently because he thinks this is a model of how the Tories think it should be done.

By contrast, the Indian government chose to pursue Vodafone through the courts for the billions in tax they have failed to pay there. Yes, the British state is less functional than the Indian state when it comes to collecting revenues from the wealthy. This is not an isolated incident. Richard Murphy, of Tax Research UK, calculates that UK corporations fail to pay a further £12bn a year in taxes they legally owe, while the rich avoid or evade up to £120bn.

Many people emailed me saying they were outraged that while they pay their fair share for running the country, Vodafone doesn’t pay theirs. One of them named Thom Costello decided he wanted to organize a protest, so he appealed on Twitter – and this Wednesday seventy enraged citizens shut down the flagship Vodafone store on Oxford Street in protest. “Vodafone won’t pay as they go,” said one banner. “Make Vodafone pay, not the poor,” said another.

The reaction from members of the public – who were handed leaflets explaining the situation – was startling. Again and again, people said “I’m so glad somebody is doing this” and “there needs to be much more of this.” Lots of them stopped to talk about how frightened they were about the cuts and for their own homes and jobs. The protest became the third most discussed topic in the country on Twitter, meaning millions of people now know about what Vodafone and the government have done.
 




Biscuit

Native Creative
Jul 8, 2003
22,277
Brighton
That makes me very, very angry.

"All in this together." What a load of shit. The rich are getting richer and the poor even worse off. Bankers are making millions again and the poor and seeing none of it. One of the few options the poorer people have in this country is to better themselves through education, and guess what? It's being priced out of their reach.

I f***ing hate these Tories with a passion. My only smirk comes from the watery schadenfreude that the frankly retarded ''underclass'' idiots that voted them in will be hardest hit.
 


Castello

Castello
May 28, 2009
432
Tottenham
That makes me very, very angry.

"All in this together." What a load of shit. The rich are getting richer and the poor even worse off. Bankers are making millions again and the poor and seeing none of it. One of the few options the poorer people have in this country is to better themselves through education, and guess what? It's being priced out of their reach.

I f***ing hate these Tories with a passion. My only smirk comes from the watery schadenfreude that the frankly retarded ''underclass'' idiots that voted them in will be hardest hit.

Whilst I agree with most of what you say, and indeed the sentiment you expressed, the problem is that the majority that didnt vote for these upper class thieves will have to pay for the actions of the few.
 


Biscuit

Native Creative
Jul 8, 2003
22,277
Brighton
Whilst I agree with most of what you say, and indeed the sentiment you expressed, the problem is that the majority that didnt vote for these upper class thieves will have to pay for the actions of the few.

I couldn't agree more and it's very disheartening. I was just venting my anger!!
 






Hatterlovesbrighton

something clever
Jul 28, 2003
4,543
Not Luton! Thank God
Apart from the fact that the £6bn figure is an urban myth (as said by the HMRC) top ranting.

Why is it that the left is always quickest to get nasty and personal so quickly? Harman is a prime example.
 


Right, I'm not quite sure where to start with this...

1) Dave Harnett, the permanent secretary for tax at HMRC, appointed in 2007 under Labour's watch, is the man that is likely to have signed off the agreement with Vodafone. I'm not really sure what role Osbourne is supposed to have had in this? The source of this 'impropriety' is supposedly the fact that Harnett and John Connors (the head of tax at Vodafone) used to work together at HMRC.

2) The UK has been known as being soft on corporate tax for years. How is this suddenly the fault of the Tories, who have been in office for a matter of months?

3) This £6bn figure has come from an investigation from Private Eye, who have a vested interest in kicking up a stink. It seems unlikely that the real amount was this much; all of the media reports during the court cases in the run up to this agreement talk about figures of between £2-3bn. It is thought that Vodafone had put aside around £2.25bn to cover this liability, however, so they were clearly forced to pay less than they expected.
 


Tooting Gull

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
11,033
I'm sure there is a perfectly reasonable explanation, the Tories would never act in such a two-faced way, dismantling public services while going easy to the tune of billions on big business. No doubt one of the usual suspects will provide it on here.

I think I'd like to hear one of the LibDem members of the Cabinet defend this. And I wonder why this hasn't had more bad press than it has. Maybe because they're such big advertisers for the newspapers...
 




Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,715
Uffern
urban myth - they never owed £6bn.

That's right, the sum in question is £1.25 billion according to HMRC.

I don't see why it's all right having £1.25 billion written off though. Everyone has to pay tax, why is it OK for corporations to weasel out of it?
 


Tooting Gull

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
11,033
This £6bn figure has come from an investigation from Private Eye, who have a vested interest in kicking up a stink. .

Aah, that didn't take long.

By 'vested interest in kicking up a stink', do you mean uncovering hypocrisy that you are unlikely to see done elsewhere?
 


narly101

Well-known member
Feb 16, 2009
2,683
London
FFS - Vodafone haven't suddenly decided not to pay a bill of £6bn overnight.

The figure is a myth and an offical HMRC spokesman has put the figure at around £1.25bn. Vodafone have paid their tax bill.

Now that the Tories have finally started to do something to save this country from Labours wasteful approach to finance and government, it's all their fault.

Get a grip.
 




Robbie G

New member
Jul 26, 2004
1,771
Hassocks
2) The UK has been known as being soft on corporate tax for years. How is this suddenly the fault of the Tories, who have been in office for a matter of months?

It's probably the constant repetition of 'we're all in this together', and then people's belief (whether right or wrong) that big businesses are not paying their fair share of tax.

This, along with the belief (notably by the Institute of Fiscal Studies) that the Spending Review will be regressive, may lead to people believing that Call Me Dave and his cabinet are not really looking out for the poorest.
 


Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,715
Uffern
The figure is a myth and an offical HMRC spokesman has put the figure at around £1.25bn. Vodafone have paid their tax bill.

But that's not true though is it? The Independent report has a direct quote (not industry sources or those close to the case) from a tax official saying that the cancellation of the Vodafone debt was an "unbelievable cave-in".
 


Aah, that didn't take long.

By 'vested interest in kicking up a stink', do you mean uncovering hypocrisy that you are unlikely to see done elsewhere?

No, actually I meant vested interest in saying something controversial that will help them to sell their paper.

For what it's worth I don't agree with HMRC letting them get away with c£1bn in unpaid taxes, and an agreement not to pay tax in future on business run through their Luxembourg tax haven, I just don't quite see how it's the Conservatives fault!

But that's not true though is it? The Independent report has a direct quote (not industry sources or those close to the case) from a tax official saying that the cancellation of the Vodafone debt was an "unbelievable cave-in".

The quote was from an unnamed 'former HMRC chief', according to the Daily Mail. Sounds suspiciously like someone not involved in the process talking about what's been presented to him as 'fact'.

This, along with the belief (notably by the Institute of Fiscal Studies) that the Spending Review will be regressive, may lead to people believing that Call Me Dave and his cabinet are not really looking out for the poorest.

You show me a tax review that involves spending cuts, and I can tell you now that it will be regressive. Of course spending cuts are going to hit the poor hardest, they are the people that are most reliant on public services.
 




Rookie

Greetings
Feb 8, 2005
12,324
Or pushing a company for some money through the courts and forcing them to pay could mean that the company withdraw all major operations from the UK resulting in a loss of tax far greater than what the government were chasing in the first place.
No I don't know the facts just some guess work
 




Hatterlovesbrighton

something clever
Jul 28, 2003
4,543
Not Luton! Thank God
But that's not true though is it? The Independent report has a direct quote (not industry sources or those close to the case) from a tax official saying that the cancellation of the Vodafone debt was an "unbelievable cave-in".


Do they name this person? Unless there is a name attached, its more or less meaningless.

80,000 people work for HMRC. This senior figure could be someone that manages three people in a small office in Dunstable
 


Mellotron

I've asked for soup
Jul 2, 2008
32,293
Brighton
I was in Churchill Square on Saturday when I saw a couple of young studenty types running into the Square, chased by coppers.

Hard to work out what the commotion was until we looked round and saw the police were pulling the railing down infront of the Vodafone shop. Then suddenly out of nowhere loads of protesters were in front of it chanting something that started "Vodafone, Pay Your Bills, something, something rhymes with Bills".

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned on here.
 




Hatterlovesbrighton

something clever
Jul 28, 2003
4,543
Not Luton! Thank God
I was in Churchill Square on Saturday when I saw a couple of young studenty types running into the Square, chased by coppers.

Hard to work out what the commotion was until we looked round and saw the police were pulling the railing down infront of the Vodafone shop. Then suddenly out of nowhere loads of protesters were in front of it chanting something that started "Vodafone, Pay Your Bills, something, something rhymes with Bills".

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned on here.


Would have been interesting to know how many of those protesting had Vodafone mobiles
 


Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,715
Uffern
Oh, and Gwylan, the quote was from an unnamed 'former HMRC chief', according to the Daily Mail. Sounds suspiciously like someone not involved in the process talking about what's been presented to him as 'fact'.

Possibly, although I'd imagine a former HMRC chief would be well aware of a deal this size.

What this does represent however is the lack of openness in this country, everything in this is rumour, innuendo and supposition. If sums of this nature are being written off then we should be presented with facts as to the amounts and why they were written off. And we should get on-the-record quotes from tax officials, not unnamed sources.

To their credit, the Tories do seem to be pushing for a new level of openness - the publication of public bodies' spending is just a start. But public companies like Vodafone should be much more open about their taxes, after all this is ultimately our money.
 


Albion and Premier League latest from Sky Sports


Top
Link Here