George Bush - UK Next Week

[alan partridge]

well a lot of people feel that the aggressive stance taken over iraq has done nothing to help the situation. infact a lot of people felt, before the war, that going into iraq would make the world less safe. that doesn't make them scum. unless of course you're a politician/tabloid journalist/lawyer experienced in twisting words and situations to suit your own ends/discredit others


you're richard littlejohn!!

 

[looney]

I was refering to CS's reference to the dead in istanbul being bushes/blairs fault.

I stand by it, he's a scumbag.

 

[ChutneyStirrer]

Coincidence? Are you saying the bombs that slaughtered so many in istanbul are our fault? What did the British who were killed in the WTC do to deserve their deaths. [/B]

Easy mate, you'll do yourself a mischief.....

Please read again - I said it is no coincidence. The War Against Terror is being waged by the US with the help of the UK. Whilst the leader of the former is visiting the latter terrorists target our mission. Is that a coincidence??

The problem is fundamentalism..... Christian Fundamentalist against Muslim Fundamentalists. You heard of Lt. Gen. 'Jerry' Boykin?

 

[alan partridge]

worlds fastest growing religion by conversion is Jesus Christ of latter day saints. = Mormons.
although all religions will claim net converts.

god i hate mormons

they have 2 strategies (where i live anyway)

1. 2 men, wearing identical suits, on mountain bikes, wearing matching cycle helmets, saying hi, where are you from, and other innocuos questions before hitting you with the sucker punch..'whats's your view on our lord and saviour jesus christ?'

2. man or woman, with their child. they then force the child to hand out their leaflets (harder to say no to a cute kiddie) to all and sundry

i always give the kid a great big smile and say no thanks before turning my 'you evil ****' face upon the adult

 

[Dandyman]

No democracy has ever gone to war with another, .[/SIZE]

Rather depends how you define a war. CIA backed coups overthrew democratic governments in Greece in 1967 and Chile in 1973 and attempted to do so in Cyprus in 1974.

 

[Bare]

True, and it's stranger for the fact that most of the volunteers joined up thinking there was very little chance of them going to fight in a war ! Loads of them joined to get a trade, or "be all that they could be" to raise their self-esteem and gain education while getting paid for it.


It was nothing like that at all. We all knew exactly where we were going although a chosen few were sent to Europe. The rest of us, to get enlistments up, signed on for a shorter 2 year enlistment and an early out with a tour in Nam. There where no illusions. Talk in the squad bays was about the insurance when they got zapped and who got the money. Trade, education, being this or that didn't exist.

True Generals didn't get down in the trenches and fight the war. Perhaps my post would make more sense if we changed the word 'fought' to 'directed' or 'conducted.'

Semantics

 

[ChutneyStirrer]

True, and it's stranger for the fact that most of the volunteers joined up thinking there was very little chance of them going to fight in a war ! Loads of them joined to get a trade, or "be all that they could be" to raise their self-esteem and gain education while getting paid for it.


It was nothing like that at all. We all knew exactly where we were going although a chosen few were sent to Europe. The rest of us, to get enlistments up, signed on for a shorter 2 year enlistment and an early out with a tour in Nam. There where no illusions. Talk in the squad bays was about the insurance when they got zapped and who got the money. Trade, education, being this or that didn't exist.

I read that part of NMH post being about the US Army soldiers that went to Iraq, not from Vietnam times.....

 

[Bare]

I looked at it again and I think I read it right. The two previous posts were about Viet Nam and some things I posted.

If not, I'm sure he'll let me know.

 

[Bare]

It looks like you guys were pretty decent to President Bush this week. Those that disagreed with him said so. Those that do said so. All in all it looks like a cordial visit.

Thank you!

 

[NMH]

I read that part of NMH post being about the US Army soldiers that went to Iraq, not from Vietnam times.....

I was (of course) referring to the current affair, not the last debacle, the war that the US lost, in which 55,000-odd young fellows didn't come back from alive.
That war was a DRAFT, whereas the latest shortsighted affair has been foddered by VOLUNTEERS (many of which, as I said, are surprised and amazed to be sent abroad to kill and be killed).

 

[NMH]

It looks like you guys were pretty decent to President Bush this week. Those that disagreed with him said so. Those that do said so. All in all it looks like a cordial visit.

Thank you!

...and who are you to thank us ?

So far, it looks as though the price is being paid in Turkey - perhaps you should thank them for taking the latest hits from suicide bombers on their turf? Just a thought.

 

[Bare]

NO soldier is amazed or surprised that he might have to go fight a battle/war. They are trained right from the git-go how to fight, kill and take. It is their occupation.

NMH, I noticed you didn't post where you live. Where do you live, in some fairy tale world? You ever been a soldier? I think not! And what shall we do? Lay down and capitulate to the terrorists?

 

[NMH]

Yes Bare, I DO live in a fairy tale world.

I think you live in relatively the same vicinity doncha ?

I backed off joining the military, for precisely the right reasons - that I am not going to have some suit getting my hiney into a foreign war with a people who I don't believe are a threat to my land, and having my destiny and life ordained or ended for their command.

I like California and I like the USA, I don't like terrorists and I don't approve of providing them with a cause. I believe that they find a cause too easily without raising one. I believe that, the efforts that Clinton was making to try bringing peace in the mid-east was worthwhile, and no-one was going to attack USA for that effort. I believe it was a real "IN YOUR FACE" thing to potential enemies that George Bush got elected president, and especially in the manner with which he did. I think that contributed to the WTC's getting attacked (again). I think the axe to grind for our enemies was taken up when they realised it was "meet the new Bush, same as the old Bush". I think daddy Bush manoevered Saddam when he was head of CIA, and then when he was president. He used Iraq and Saddam to cowe the Amir of Kuwait, who didn't like the USA for their political dealings in the mid-east at that time. I think hundreds of thousands of Iraqi young men died without wanting to be part of the game, or knowing that they were. Saddam is evil, I know that, but he was stupid too. Ollie North took the stand for the USA (CIA) after it was found that they were selling arms to BOTH sides Iran/Iraq, and were double-dealing to keep the war between those countries going. The public were dumbed down by Reagan saying "I was asleep", and that was enough for them to say "oh, well that's ok then".
There were Arabs who despised that manoever, and whatever you thought from the safety of your tv, they had some cause for disdain . They saw that loads of blokes died in 'Desert Storm' from hi-tech weapons being used on real meat. "A kinder, gentler nation" couldn't have looked more hypocritical from where they stood !!
Whatever their reasons, they stood off a little when Clinton was in charge. They might've liked it a little when the US stepped in on Kosovo and wrested Milosovich from genocide. They might've approved when he was seen encouraging peace in Northern Ireland (successfully), and in Israel and Palestine.
Oh, but the Republicans didn't like that fellow, and pinning him down for getting a hummer under the White House table stuck with the media so well when he lied (to protect his marriage and daughter d'ya think?). So keen were they to get a new speaker, and LARRY FLINT (of all people) had to expose THAT little hypocrisy didn't he just? Rush freakin' Limbaugh was the Reps best chance, and he's just a "big fat idiot" (as Al Franken so succinctly titled his book) and a complete LIAR (exposed for so many bullshits it ain't funny, and now in re-hab....big surprise eh?)
Now look at the record, two years in office, two wars, and revenge for DADDY, yee-haw .
Of course I understand that SOMETHING had to be done about Saddam - he was about to base his currency on the Euro forcryingoutloud! We can't have the economy plummetting for the whole middle-east following suit now can we? We are strange bedfellows with Saudi, entirely (I suspect) due to their keeping plugged into the dollar. All that oil money dude, and Dubya being Texas Oil poster-boy an' all !
Natch, we can't have the economy collapse here, and neither can Blair - it still means a lot to the UK and Europe - even if the French are ready. The Germans are too, only to a slightly lesser extent, and neither were about to shoot themselves in the foot to keep the dollar on course when the Euro stands to gain from eventual power on the mid-east and rest-of-world market (which is looking inevitable).
No, I'm not against the US interests in this world - far from it, I want to be a part of British/US interests and political relations.
(As you might have guessed) I prefer the Democratic way. I really suspect that Gore was a pinko to distance himself from Clinton, but his World Trade Centrality wouldn't have been attacked for anyone's Jihad. They wouldn't have had as much reason. and I don't think they would have done that if this REALLY is a "kinder gentler nation". It isn't now, that's fo' sho' !
"Why can't we all just get along?" (to quote Rodney King) - I don't think we are trying very hard to. We are seeing attack as the best form of defence, which it may actually be, for the present time being.
Do they hate us because we are a free democracy? Why don't they hate Norway, Canada ??
When will it end? When can I walk on an international flight, arriving 40 minutes before take-off? When will 'they' stop attacking and despising us? Anytime soon ? Must we stomp them into submission, and will that ever work ?

No Bare, I don't believe they will ever stop what they see as THEIR fight for righteousness. We will continue to call suicide bombers evil, and they will continue to call them martyrs and heros. In answer; we should NOT capitulate to terrorism, but we shouldn't give reason for it either
My only, ONLY suggestion for a solution, is to do straight business in the world and struggle to retain fair trade that may not mean profit for us every time (and certainly NOT sell arms for profit regardless of who to, and keep wars going on foreign soil to keep the money coming in). It is to encourage REAL peace, not to be seen to take one side, not to scowl on impoverished Palestinians in favour of supporting Israel. Not to manoever the middle-east to suit the dollar, but to encourage continuing trade that works for everybody. Not to place embargos on other political concerns in small island nations like Cuba that are of no threat, but to accept their choice of political base and let them get on with it .....(like we manage to do with Communist China!!).

Since you asked where I'm 'coming from' Bare, I hope you understood and accept the answer. I don't think your gun-totin' republican votin' butt is going to shift closer to my way of thinking - it probably isn't cowboy-cavalier enough for ya - so you just get in a temper like a good-ol-boy, rant yourself a few epithets about Democrats and poontang-chasin' presidents (since that's all you had for the last 3 years of Bill's tenure). I'll agree with you that many of the Dems are spineless - they didn't back their own leader in the house 10 years ago after all, and Gore didn't back him in the end either! - and the result was they all LOST their seats. It just goes to show that there aren't really THAT many clever people in politics.

Clinton was a draft dodger alright, bucking a bad war that USA lost. I don't see Dubya as a hero though, for landing in a jet, with flak jacket, and that rather gay salute he keeps flipping (someone TELL him about that! Did he see it in 'Top Gun'??).
I don't consider him as a hero for telling the enemy to "bring it on", this is a "crusade", when young Americans have their lives on a line in the desert. Not clever.

Now about you; Do you REALLY support EVERY move that your president makes? If you vote, do you HAVE TO agree with EVERYTHING your representative does, and NOTHING the other party leader says and does? That's classic myopia, right ?
Do you have ANY considered alternatives to the way your man does things, or is he *always* right ?

One more; do you think George W. will pull Osama or Saddam out, like a rabbit from a hat, just before the next election ?
The public would be bustin' their chads for that trick !

 

[Bare]

Your decision to join the military is yours and not in question here. God knows the draft took many like your self and many didn’t have a clue what being a soldier was all a bout. One must want to be a soldier. One fellow I knew couldn’t fathom the idea that the other guy was going to kill him. His naïveté was refreshing but it got him killed.

The goals set out in Iraq are lofty and difficult at best. It is so easy to lose and so difficult to win. Worthy if they are successful. Clinton made a half-witted attempt to settle some issues in the Middle East. Quite frankly, mentally, he was in no condition to confront those involved. The Moslem and the Jew are very moral and righteous people. They sincerely try to live a good and exemplary life. Clinton had just gotten off the roller coaster of moral issues and we all know playing with Ms. Lewinski was just the tip of the iceberg. It’s tantamount to asking Larry Flynt to help negotiate the Israeli/Palestinian issue. The vast majority of Iraqis welcome the US/Brit/Coalition intervention. There is no doubt.

So who are these people blowing up things in the Middle East? They are organized criminals. Nothing more than thugs who think they are fighting for their country. Truth is they just want to kill somebody. A state of war still exists over there but only for the apprehension of these thugs. Most Iraqis want to get on with their lives. They want work, schools, and business. All the things that make life worth while. They are no longer interested in life with Sadam.

Do I agree with everything President Bush does or says? Of course not, don’t be silly. I do agree with his policies in Iraq though. It’s been described as, “Grabbing a tiger by the throat.” Can’t subdue the tiger but if you let go, the tiger will subdue you. I do think he and Blair should speed up the Iraqi self-rule. Let those people have their country back as soon as possible. I also acknowledge that it may take time to do that. What a conundrum, you think? After the Revolutionary War in this country in1776 we were essentially without effective rule till 1787. That’s almost 10 years. And we all expect Iraq to self-rule effectively in less time? It’s possible; they have good people helping them out.

So I say thanks for keeping things peaceful while the President was in your custody.

 

[NMH]

Classic myopia. Wanna by some oceanfront land in Arizona ?
If any-old republican was selling, you'd be buying it mate.

This horse shit about Clinton and morality is all you can rant about.
But OF COURSE your boy doesn't give a shit for throwing away lives, so sexual morality means so much to you ?

Give me a break.
I won't be continuing interraction with you now Bare, you are willingly mesmerised and lulled into the stupor you asked for.
Got a son they can draft ? How about a nephew? Neice?
Come on now, bring out your living, let's pack 'em off for the republican Jihad - if they die they are guaranteed their own oil rig in heaven and a Lincoln Navigator (on credit, naturally) to do the shopping .

 

[Bare]

What?!? you expected me to agree with you?

No, I am not a republican. Your assumptions are driving you crazy.

And yes, a lot of people died on 9/11. Get your priorities straight.

Wake up and smell the coffee!

 

[NMH]

What?!? you expected me to agree with you?

No, I am not a republican. Your assumptions are driving you crazy.

And yes, a lot of people died on 9/11. Get your priorities straight.

Wake up and smell the coffee!

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz morality, The Kennedys zzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz many people dying, politicians manoevering abroad under the name of 'freedom' zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzz we are crusaders on the side of righteousness zzz zzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz big oil zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzz Arab wealth based on the Euro not the $ zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzz z zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Oh, it's morning, I think I smell some coffee !

Why don't you smell it bare ?