France and Greece say NO to austerity

[Beach Hut]

Not so. Tourism contributes just 15% to Greece's Gross Domestic Product.

Even I could work that one out

 

[El Presidente]

Precisely no matter what posturing the money markets will decide their fate.

I think the phrase 'herd like exploitative speculators' is a better description of their activities than 'money markets'.

Where there is misery there is money to be made.

 

[Pondicherry]

No it wasn't. West Germany really wasn't a force at all, more of a base for NATO forces.

One of the things Margaret Thatcher really did not want back in 1989 was a reunited Germany as she thought it would get up to its old tricks of parking Panzers on various countries front lawns.

It obviously didn't and instead it turned its back on doing anything except making lots of useful things that we all want (I plead guilty - I drive a BMW and my wife has a Mercedes)

Germany has been parking economic Panzers all over Europe for the last 20 years and now 60 years after the end of WW2 it now effectively controls mainland Europe. This is a route China has also decided to follow although their goal is worldwide domination. There is nothing wrong with this of course except for the fact that we don't aknowledge we are at economic war.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I think the phrase 'herd like exploitative speculators' is a better description of their activities than 'money markets'.

Where there is misery there is money to be made.

The question is ... all this money that will be made ... where will it end up? In the private pockets of the speculators? Or as tax income for the governments of Europe? I think I can guess the answer.

What I don't understand is why, if government borrowing is such a bad thing, is the alternative (taxation) also such a bad thing?

 

[Leekbrookgull]

The question is ... all this money that will be made ... where will it end up? In the private pockets of the speculators? Or as tax income for the governments of Europe? I think I can guess the answer.

What I don't understand is why, if government borrowing is such a bad thing, the alternative (taxation) is also a bad thing.

But (sorry i know you never start a sentence with but) however this is where we are. It is all about OIL,the lack of it and the price of it. The world 'run's' on OiL.

 

[Pondicherry]

The question is ... all this money that will be made ... where will it end up? In the private pockets of the speculators? Or as tax income for the governments of Europe? I think I can guess the answer.

What I don't understand is why, if government borrowing is such a bad thing, the alternative (taxation) is also a bad thing.

They are of course both bad things because it is impossible to forever increase or even sustain consumption when resources are finite.

Space exploration is the answer and we need to reopen our rocket testing facility on the Isle of White,

 

[TotallyFreaked]

I think we could have this debate all day and nobody really has any clue what is the best way to solve the current debt crisis in Europe. I really don't think electing a French socialist government is going to bring France or the Euro to its knees but may in fact offer some balance to the current neo-liberal politics. There may be some knee-jerk reaction but I also don't believe that there will be some mass exodus of the rich from France. The problem with Austerity is that average Joe like myself stops having any money to spend meaning no money is running through our economy causing the need for more austerity and the cycle continues.
Our perceived wealth over the last two decades was mainly due to an over inflated housing market and our ability to borrow together with market confidence. Don't even get me started on 'we are all in this together' because nothing could be further from the truth. Most luxury goods for the rich are selling equally well now as they were before the start of the recession.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

How about producing more STUFF, instead of expecting gambling on the future value of the euro (or bank shares) to deliver prosperity for everyone?

 

[Beach Hut]

How about producing more STUFF, instead of expecting gambling on the future value of the euro (or bank shares) to deliver prosperity for everyone?

At what cost though, it is impossible to produce "STUFF" cheap in the UK

 

[Lord Bracknell]

At what cost though, it is impossible to produce "STUFF" cheap in the UK

At the cost of higher employment and higher wages, to spend on STUFF.

 

[Working class pride]

The question is ... all this money that will be made ... where will it end up? In the private pockets of the speculators? Or as tax income for the governments of Europe? I think I can guess the answer.

What I don't understand is why, if government borrowing is such a bad thing, is the alternative (taxation) also such a bad thing?

So you expect people to work harder to make more money, but not for themselves, but instead to give to say a teacher who will spend the summer on holiday? Yes mate, i see a problem with that - its immoral.

Bottom line is our public sector have to work harder, just ask the hardworking, but well educated and still relatively poor who are keen to work in the emerging markets.

Currency markets are not forcing a country to do anything. No person or country has the right to force anyone to lend them money. As such, if they want to borrow then just as you pay the market price for a car, the country will pay the market price for the money they wish to borrow off someone else.

 

[Beach Hut]

At the cost of higher employment and higher wages, to spend on STUFF.

How can we compete though, I source many goods at work through "providers" that get them made in China, even the competitors source from there because they are cheaper than anywhere else.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

How about producing more STUFF, instead of expecting gambling on the future value of the euro (or bank shares) to deliver prosperity for everyone?

How would you compete with china? You would have to reduce everyones wages to pennies per hour?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

How can we compete though, I source many goods at work through "providers" that get them made in China, even the competitors source from there because they are cheaper than anywhere else.

I know that I'm turning the clock back by suggesting tarrifs, but it may well be the case that complete subservience to free markets might be the cause of the problem, rather than the solution to it. 52 per cent of the French electorate might just be right.

 

[ALBION28]

Is there really anyone sane who wants austerity? Seems to me like turkeys voting for Christmas. Hooray I can look forward to be unemployed or Yipee I can look forward to working until I suck my last breath, screw having a National Health Service.....Line up line up for the chop.
I think the French and Greeks are clearly not turkeys.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

So you expect people to work harder to make more money, but not for themselves, but instead to give to say a teacher who will spend the summer on holiday? Yes mate, i see a problem with that - its immoral.

Bottom line is our public sector have to work harder, just ask the hardworking, but well educated and still relatively poor who are keen to work in the emerging markets.

Currency markets are not forcing a country to do anything. No person or country has the right to force anyone to lend them money. As such, if they want to borrow then just as you pay the market price for a car, the country will pay the market price for the money they wish to borrow off someone else.

Investing in education never hurt any economy.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

I agree most Greeks want to keep the Euro, but the markets want them out.

Germany will have a very big decision to make, plough untold amounts of their hard earned into Greece, or see the Euro semi-collapse.

My unprofessional view is that they will bin off Greece from the Euro.

TB

So do the Germans spunk more money on Europe than the UK?

 

[Beach Hut]

I know that I'm turning the clock back by suggesting tarrifs, but it may well be the case that complete subservience to free markets might be the cause of the problem, rather than the solution to it. 52 per cent of the French electorate might just be right.

It will never happen now as we are all too dependant on the cheap labour for all sorts of goods.

Tariffs is a ludicrous solution and would never work

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Investing in education never hurt any economy.

But is it education or merely another form of opium for the masses?

People seem to know a little about everything, but be ignorant of real knowledge

 

[Chicken Runner61]

So do the Germans spunk more money on Europe than the UK?

Yes, Yes they do!