Football Referees

[NMH]

If he didn't see the incident why did he give a free kick? He either saw the collision or he didn't. Which is it?

Think. He knows there was a collision, he knows it's not Rooney being a good boy and he knows it's a free kick. So, he also knows that giving Rooney a card will prevent him from being further punished by the authorities who can review it. Trouble is, they ALSO let him completely off the hook!!
Something is wrong there, isn't it?

 

[drew]

This quote indicates to me a lack of understanding of both the Laws of the Game and the duties of the referee.

Take item 1, how well do you actually know the laws of the game? (I might put a quiz together on here sometime if anyone wants me to) I think I know and understand most of the laws of the game. I'm not going to claim to be perfect but when there is something I haven't been sure about I'll check it out. However, I was well aware that there was no such thing as the ball being active as per Steve Claridges blunder.
Item 2, they are not rules, they are not laws. Does that actually make any difference!!!!!
Item 3, "The ref has the power to book a player for foul language". He does not. If a player is guilty of using offensive, insulting and/or abusive language, he shall be sent off, the referee has no authority to caution a player for this offense. See law 12. And when it was discussed in refereeing circles that any player swearing should be sent off at all levels of the game, the fans, players et al said that it would be the referees throwing their weight about, and people don't go to games to see the referee, and they should put up with it. Fine, even better. So why don't they! Do it several times and we will see a host of players sent of initially but they would soon learn. Their clubs would crack down on it because they would be losing players for bans.
4. meeting the player half way is what referees are supposed to do, they are not there to belittle the players by making them talk to the referee like a scalded child! It's not a case of meeting half way. How many times do you see a ref blow the whistle and the player walks back to their usual position and the ref then has to walk and meet them 'halfway'. The player has then belittled the ref by making him move. In many cases, had the player stood still when the ref first called him neither would have to move.
5. I agreee to a point with this, but it's easier said than done in the heat of the moment, and would leave the referee open to accusations of being a stickler for the rules. The referee cannot win really. Do they want respect or not?

Why don't you give it a go, even Sunday football with a dozen people watching, it might surprise you how hard it is to get everything right, and make everyone think you are doing a good unbiased job. The losing team will blame you, 99 times out of 100, trust me!

Smudger, ex referee and Referee Instructor, if you couldn't guess!!

Fact of the matter is I don't like most football pundits and at the moment, are there really any stand out refs to join them?

 

[Da Man Clay]

If he didn't see the incident why did he give a free kick? He either saw the collision or he didn't. Which is it?

Seeing a collision in your peripheral vision at full speed is very different from seeing a pre-meditated elbow to the face on a slow mo replay.

 

[Acker79]

Graham Poll does make good comments but he is the only one. The refs I've seen at the Withdean seem incapable, in the main, to apply the rules of the game so why should I trust them to advise on them as a pundit?

Referees know the laws of the game. Where they may occasionally (much less often than many pundits would have you believe) make mistakes it isn't usually because they don't know the laws of the game, it's because applying them in a game situation is totally different to simply knowing the theory.

Alan Shearer didn't exactly set the world alight as a manager, did Andy Grey even try to manage? Yet they discuss tactics and what they would do on a theoretical level, mark lawrenson, alan hansen, jamie redknapp, andy townsend, and others are also on the list of pundits who have failed, showed no great aptitude, or never even tried to manage a football team are often given a great deal of respect for their opinions on what they would do if they were the manager.

I know not everyone likes these pundits (of the list I only really like Jamie Redknapp), but they are brought back and held in esteem by many others.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Are there any ex professional players that have become top level referee's? Happens a lot in cricket. I wonder why is does not happen much in football

 

[Acker79]

Are there any ex professional players that have become top level referee's? Happens a lot in cricket. I wonder why is does not happen much in football

Partly the money, I imagine. But also that refs have to start in the sunday league system. They have introduced a fast track system for refs, but that doesn't seem to appeal. I imagine there's also the us and them attitude that becomes ingrained in footballers, it might be seens as betraying the brotherhood.

Martin Keow gave refereeing a shot for a one day tournament thing and wrote about it, I mentioned it in a thread way back.
Former Player Becomes Ref......

 

[KZNSeagull]

Partly the money, I imagine. But also that refs have to start in the sunday league system. They have introduced a fast track system for refs, but that doesn't seem to appeal. I imagine there's also the us and them attitude that becomes ingrained in footballers, it might be seens as betraying the brotherhood.

Martin Keow gave refereeing a shot for a one day tournament thing and wrote about it, I mentioned it in a thread way back.
Former Player Becomes Ref......

I remember reading that when you first posted it - thanks.

It may well be that there is an us and them attitude but also that reffing is seen as a completely thankless job, where you are going to get stick from players, fans, parents, managers etc etc whatever you do, mainly because the respect has gone and goading the ref is fair game in football. It is far easier for an ex player to sit and comment than it is for them to get involved. Cricket Umpires and Rugby Refs still get respect - they make mistakes and may get abuse but ultimately the respect is there from players, coaches, fans and commentators alike. They are under the same scrutiny as football refs but they dont regularly get top coaches publically slagging them off in the press after the game, or get surrounded on the pitch by players calling them every name under the sun. Ultimately, reffing in football would improve over time if more ex players got involved, but the slagging culture would have to change enormously before that happens.

 

[Mr Burns]

Several reasons really.

1. The referees are there to apply the laws of the game but all too frequently get it wrong.
2. Lack of consistency. They will apply a rule and when the same thing happens again will ignore it.
3. Failed to follow through with the respect campaign. The attitude of players to refs is entirely the referee's fault. Best example was Mike Riley trying to be friends with Rooney when he should have carded him straight away. The ref has the power to book a player for foul language yet time and time again they take it on the chin.
4. Referees calling for a player to come to them and eventually meeting them halfway. FFS stamp your authority on the game.
5. Allowing groups of players to harangue you and making you run backwards. Stand your ground and book/send off the first player that touches you or gets in your face.

The referees don't help themselves by lying (Clattenburg about Rooney's elbow) nor by refusing to come on tv to explain away decisions. Admittedly they aren't helped by the FA who, in the Rooney incident declined to retrospectively punish him when they could have.

In my opinion, because referees are weak, and that probably goes right to the very top of their organisation, they aren't fit to comment on matches. Having said that, anyone who thinks the likes of Lawrenson and Claridge are worth listening to needs their heads examined. If you want to know the laws of the game get on the Fifa website. They are there together with explanations.

1. THIS
2. THIS
3.THis
4.This
5.This

 

[Mr Burns]

This quote indicates to me a lack of understanding of both the Laws of the Game and the duties of the referee.

Take item 1, how well do you actually know the laws of the game? (I might put a quiz together on here sometime if anyone wants me to)
Item 2, they are not rules, they are not laws.
Item 3, "The ref has the power to book a player for foul language". He does not. If a player is guilty of using offensive, insulting and/or abusive language, he shall be sent off, the referee has no authority to caution a player for this offense. See law 12. And when it was discussed in refereeing circles that any player swearing should be sent off at all levels of the game, the fans, players et al said that it would be the referees throwing their weight about, and people don't go to games to see the referee, and they should put up with it.
4. meeting the player half way is what referees are supposed to do, they are not there to belittle the players by making them talk to the referee like a scalded child!
5. I agreee to a point with this, but it's easier said than done in the heat of the moment, and would leave the referee open to accusations of being a stickler for the rules. The referee cannot win really.

Why don't you give it a go, even Sunday football with a dozen people watching, it might surprise you how hard it is to get everything right, and make everyone think you are doing a good unbiased job. The losing team will blame you, 99 times out of 100, trust me!

Smudger, ex referee and Referee Instructor, if you couldn't guess!!

What an arrogant and stupid reply. Bloody newbies!!!
1. Probably better than you think. (Do your quiz, Only if it takes you a few days and keeps you off here)
2. Prat
3. That is a rule/law whatever you want to call it. They don't. So they don't follow the law on these incidents do they? But then you get a twat sending off a player who catches and a pitch invader... because its the law!!!

As far as the abuse referees get, imo they only have themselves to blame. They could stop it in its tracks if they applied the laws. They are so quick to book a player who has just scored and has "lost is mind" and takes his shirt off (bacause its the law), but Rooney or most others players for that matter tell you to "f*** off" then lets not apply that law today shall we?!! And you wonder why the poor bastards brave enough to become sunday morning refs get abuse. Because its become part of the game, because the refs at the top wont stamp it, or apply the law.

Other reason is when a ref makes a mistake, the FA will not go back on it, like the Rooney elbow for a recent example. Everyone can see what happened, but the FA are basically saying ref saw it, so we can't change it. So whats that mean, the ref is always right?? If they admit their mistakes, people wouldn't see them as they enemy.

I can rememebr numerous times having a go at a ref when hes cocked it up, and most just argue back, or give the old arm waving "go away" crap. Nine times out of ten when they do this they know they are wrong. The odd one holds his hands up and says sorry I was wrong, and what can you say to that? Other than fair enough!! We all make mistakes, it just seems referees cannot accept of admit they do, and that is one of the problems with them and us I'm afriad.

 

[drew]

If Rooney gets reviewed by the FA and remains unpunished for an off-ball incident, that is entirely down to them. Clattenburg even gave them total reign over that, by NOT carding Rooney. If he yellow cards him after not seeing all the incident - he can't be further punished, so the ref HAS allowed full punitive ability over Rooney, which the FA have chosen to let slide. Ref right, FA wrong.

If he has only seen it in his peripheral vision, how can he determine exactly who was to blame! The Wigan player appears to come across and block Rooney so there is the possibility for an infringement there. Your saying that Clattenburg is assuming Rooney is to blame. As for your comment about him thinking quick enough not to card rooney that is a joke. If he does something that needs carding for he should do it. Fifa have said that they don't prevent further punishment and I think there have been several examples of this overseas. It's just the FA don't do it. On the basis of your argument, Clattenburg should never card another player so that the FA in their infinite wisdom can decide what would be a fitting punishment. Meanwhile, in this game, Wigan go on to lose and may, as a possible consequence, get relegated.

I remember reading that when you first posted it - thanks.

It may well be that there is an us and them attitude but also that reffing is seen as a completely thankless job, where you are going to get stick from players, fans, parents, managers etc etc whatever you do, mainly because the respect has gone and goading the ref is fair game in football. It is far easier for an ex player to sit and comment than it is for them to get involved. Cricket Umpires and Rugby Refs still get respect - they make mistakes and may get abuse but ultimately the respect is there from players, coaches, fans and commentators alike. They are under the same scrutiny as football refs but they dont regularly get top coaches publically slagging them off in the press after the game, or get surrounded on the pitch by players calling them every name under the sun. Ultimately, reffing in football would improve over time if more ex players got involved, but the slagging culture would have to change enormously before that happens.

I have to say that it really pisses me off when people compare football officials with those in Rugby and Cricket. In both of the latter, there are punishments for dissent that are administered. Particularly in Rugby, if there is dissent then the direct result is that penalties are moved 10 yards further forward and that can make the difference between scoring 3 pts or kicking for touch. They can also get sin binned for 10 minutes for showin indiscipline. Take away that rule and eventually you will see Rugby slide towards the lack of respect now seen in Football. Football tried the 10 yrd advancement but as per usual, the referees failed to apply it where applicable.

What an arrogant and stupid reply. Bloody newbies!!!
1. Probably better than you think. (Do your quiz, Only if it takes you a few days and keeps you off here)
2. Prat
3. That is a rule/law whatever you want to call it. They don't. So they don't follow the law on these incidents do they? But then you get a twat sending off a player who catches and a pitch invader... because its the law!!!

As far as the abuse referees get, imo they only have themselves to blame. They could stop it in its tracks if they applied the laws. They are so quick to book a player who has just scored and has "lost is mind" and takes his shirt off (bacause its the law), but Rooney or most others players for that matter tell you to "f*** off" then lets not apply that law today shall we?!! And you wonder why the poor bastards brave enough to become sunday morning refs get abuse. Because its become part of the game, because the refs at the top wont stamp it, or apply the law.

Other reason is when a ref makes a mistake, the FA will not go back on it, like the Rooney elbow for a recent example. Everyone can see what happened, but the FA are basically saying ref saw it, so we can't change it. So whats that mean, the ref is always right?? If they admit their mistakes, people wouldn't see them as they enemy.

I can rememebr numerous times having a go at a ref when hes cocked it up, and most just argue back, or give the old arm waving "go away" crap. Nine times out of ten when they do this they know they are wrong. The odd one holds his hands up and says sorry I was wrong, and what can you say to that? Other than fair enough!! We all make mistakes, it just seems referees cannot accept of admit they do, and that is one of the problems with them and us I'm afriad.

Thank you Mr Burns.