FAO: Anyone who wishes to show their support to students...

[bhaexpress]

And to clarify: The beeb said 100 entered Norton Road car park. Stuff was thrown by about 2 stupid children, who were then stopped BY OTHER STUDENTS from throwing stuff as well as being told to "stop throwing shit" (a la Millbank actually)


Also: This "we didn't follow the agreed route" is where at Brunswick square the unnessecery ketteling that started, meant that people did run on to the squre to get around a police line AFAIK. (If i'm wrong, i'm happy for Edna to quote me wrong since she's a pig )

ALSO: The students on the carpark walked off teh car park after they unfurled their banner.

The two twats throwing and causing damaged deserved to be arrested even though they weren't. I still stand by the point that our marches are being misrepresented though but we've got to accept that its going to happen and it just means that these times between the marches we must keep calm and explain what actually happened beyond the shock photos.

I am merely relaying what the BBC reported, given the choice of who to believe I have to say the BBC as I have a lot less reason to doubt their credibility. At the end of the day it's the impression that people are getting.

 

[Curious Orange]

Must be a student, can't understand English, wonder if he's an exchange ?

I think you just missed my further edited post

It has been a long time since I was a student... and I guess I was a foreign student as it happens, given that I studied in Wales!!

And I marched against the Labour party's introduction of tuition fees, and the abolition of grants, too.

 

[sten_super]

Every area needs experts, then theres the crossover skills that come from research, documentation, showing committment, being able to link information at a more advanced level. Society needs a workforce that can do those things... but how much is debateable and I think that every student has the right to study what ever course represents their talents because it'll have benifits no matter what job they go in to.

The portion in bold is the real problem. This is what has changed in higher education in the past 10-20 years; there was no sense of entitlement before, and nowhere near the same volume of people went to university. This change presents problems to the funding system, which is what led to the introduction of tuition fees under the previous government. Once they were bought in, they were only ever going to go one way.

It is my belief that not everyone needs to go to university. I think it belittles those that don't go/haven't gone to university to suggest that those 'crossover skills' that you identify can't be learnt by getting a job at 18. Some occupations require subject knowledge above and beyond that learnt at school, and that is where I can see a use for higher education, but I'm not sure that picking up 'life skills' is sufficient justification for the cost to the taxpayer.

 

[bhaexpress]

Studied in Wales, I'd be interested to know how they can help out with tuition fees when the English can't (or rather don't want to).

 

[bhaexpress]

The portion in bold is the real problem. This is what has changed in higher education in the past 10-20 years; there was no sense of entitlement before, and nowhere near the same volume of people went to university. This change presents problems to the funding system, which is what led to the introduction of tuition fees under the previous government. Once they were bought in, they were only ever going to go one way.

It is my belief that not everyone needs to go to university. I think it belittles those that don't go/haven't gone to university to suggest that those 'crossover skills' that you identify can't be learnt by getting a job at 18. Some occupations require subject knowledge above and beyond that learnt at school, and that is where I can see a use for higher education, but I'm not sure that picking up 'life skills' is sufficient justification for the cost to the taxpayer.

Seems to me that all previous administrations whether they be left or right have encouraged people to seek higher education as it massages the unemployment figures. Can't blame people for wanting to go to university when they are encouraged to do so. You might also argue that maybe some blame is down to the establishments who have encouraged and promoted so called 'frivolous' degrees in order to look after their own agendas.

 

[Curious Orange]

Studied in Wales, I'd be interested to know how they can help out with tuition fees when the English can't (or rather don't want to).

Probably withdrawing the sheep-shagging subsidy.

 

[sten_super]

Seems to me that all previous administrations whether they be left or right have encouraged people to seek higher education as it massages the unemployment figures. Can't blame people for wanting to go to university when they are encouraged to do so. You might also argue that maybe some blame is down to the establishments who have encouraged and promoted so called 'frivolous' degrees in order to look after their own agendas.

Oh yes, I agree, and I wasn't placing the blame at any one particular side. However I do think that the opening of the floodgates was Labours decision to introduce 'top up fees'; it was then just a question of how quickly they would rise, rather than if. In my view the battle was played out (and lost by the students) then.

 

[Curious Orange]

Seems to me that all previous administrations whether they be left or right have encouraged people to seek higher education as it massages the unemployment figures. Can't blame people for wanting to go to university when they are encouraged to do so. You might also argue that maybe some blame is down to the establishments who have encouraged and promoted so called 'frivolous' degrees in order to look after their own agendas.

It is hard to disagree with that - even back when I was at University it was clear that there were people attending some courses that were not of any particular benefit to either them, or society in general. On top of that there were also people there who weren't academically suited to being at an academic institution - they usually dropped out after a year though.

I think that there needs to be a rebalancing of Higher/Further Education that encourages people to seek qualifications that suit their abilities, and also a general societal attitude shift that it is in fact okay to get a job without going down the Higher/Further Education route.

Also I think that each course that these institutions run should be vetted to see whether they merit any funding from the public purse.

 

[clapham_gull]

If University is only considered to be a preparation for work than you are fundamentally questioning education itself.

History of Art, Philosophy etc.. countless worthy degrees that are not directly vocational.

If certain industries like a moan up like "we aren't producing enough engineers" then they should put their money where their mouth is and fund them themselves.

The state SHOULD be funding degrees like Humanities and Arts on the basis they aren't vocational.

In ten years time we will all be complaining how thick the nation has become.

 

[Superphil]

It is hard to disagree with that - even back when I was at University it was clear that there were people attending some courses that were not of any particular benefit to either them, or society in general. On top of that there were also people there who weren't academically suited to being at an academic institution - they usually dropped out after a year though.

I think that there needs to be a rebalancing of Higher/Further Education that encourages people to seek qualifications that suit their abilities, and also a general societal attitude shift that it is in fact okay to get a job without going down the Higher/Further Education route.

Also I think that each course that these institutions run should be vetted to see whether they merit any funding from the public purse.

On a positive note, all these ever expanding universities (and colleges that have 'become' universities) have spent a fortune with me, they must represent my second highest income stream after the NHS over the past 20 years or so.

 

[sten_super]

If University is only considered to be a preparation for work than you are fundamentally questioning education itself.

History of Art, Philosophy etc.. countless worthy degrees that are not directly vocational.

If certain industries like a moan up like "we aren't producing enough engineers" then they should put their money where their mouth is and fund them themselves.

The state SHOULD be funding degrees like Humanities and Arts on the basis they aren't vocational.

In ten years time we will all be complaining how thick the nation has become.

I understand you from a market point of view (in that non-vocational subjects wouldn't be provided by 'the market'), but I don't think that my viewpoint is necessarily questioning the role of education as a whole. I support a well-rounded education, taking classes in things that are not directly of vocational use at GCSE and A-level. However, a degree is a significant specialisation; we are no longer talking about giving a person a rounded skill set, but a specific set of knowledge/skills that may or may not be of use to them in further life. If it's not of use to them, then I would question the value of the time and money spend doing that.

 

[bhaexpress]

I really don't understand the whole 'STOP ALL CUTS' message, how the hell are we meant to pull ourselves out of the debt the country is in?

The irony is that these same people will be the ones complaining the national debt bequeathed on them by previous generations only in twenty years time.

 

[KneeOn]

I am merely relaying what the BBC reported, given the choice of who to believe I have to say the BBC as I have a lot less reason to doubt their credibility. At the end of the day it's the impression that people are getting.

Fair point, but please at least take it with the tiniest pinch of salt. Its less designed to shock but there is still a... lack of understanding some times. They didn't have people there in the same way we were there. They were reporting on what we did, not why we did it.

 

[clapham_gull]

I understand you from a market point of view (in that non-vocational subjects wouldn't be provided by 'the market'), but I don't think that my viewpoint is necessarily questioning the role of education as a whole. I support a well-rounded education, taking classes in things that are not directly of vocational use at GCSE and A-level. However, a degree is a significant specialisation; we are no longer talking about giving a person a rounded skill set, but a specific set of knowledge/skills that may or may not be of use to them in further life. If it's not of use to them, then I would question the value of the time and money spend doing that.

I'm just completed a masters. I was adequately employed at the time and did it because I was bored. I had to pay for it - but I suspect if you worked out the figures on a spreadsheet it was somehow subsidised by the state.

So the subject of education is very fresh in my mind.

Most of the subject matter I will probably never use again - but certain subjects made me think in a completely different way about things. An odd one was the way in a which a computer processor schedules tasks.

Is the the knowledge of CPU scheduling usual to me ? Not at all....

Was the process of learning it usual - very much so. So in conclusion, you can't scan the prospectus of a degree and decide what will be usual to you in future life. When you actually do the thing - it's full of surprises.

There was also something tapping away in my head that actually I should have done something "scientific" - going back to my GCSEs and A Levels. I always regretted it and was able to put that to bed.

 

[clapham_gull]

.. and make it easier and "usual" to do a degree/masters whilst working in a full time job.

Employers need to get their head round the figures.

I had 12 x 3 hour lectures of c++.

That was about a third of the lectures in the first year, which works out about £900.

Try getting that value from professional courses aimed at professionals - I've just picked a well known training company's 4 day course for an "introduction" to the language and it's over twice as much.

Bearing in mind I also loads assignments to do and two exams on it.

 

[Mendoza]

STOOOODENTS expected outside our office in Lewes from 9am today. Police been drafted in and EVERYTHING...

 

[Storer68]

So you mock my intentions because i'm not 42 years old?

That right there is why we are protesting. Ignorance of the older generations.

What intentions?? First law of economics - money does not grow on trees. Second law - you can't spend what you haven't got.

By all means protetst. Not sure you've got much of a point.

 

[oh ah stantona]

silly silly children running around like lemmings....go to hell you soap dodging tossers...thought this was a football site...not a political soapbox

 

[Flavor Flav]

What intentions?? First law of economics - money does not grow on trees. Second law - you can't spend what you haven't got.

By all means protetst. Not sure you've got much of a point.

Going by what you've just said would mean the country shouldn't be spending any money at all.....

 

[KneeOn]

What intentions?? First law of economics - money does not grow on trees. Second law - you can't spend what you haven't got.

By all means protetst. Not sure you've got much of a point.

Please read the thread, particularly the posts where i say that the post you quoted was a silly thing to say, and was said out of frustration.

I think being mocked for caring is a bit off but talking about ignorance was bang out of order by me.