Fans or customers? How do you describe yourself?

[Titanic]

you said if you were lucky ,sounds like you may have had a hard time down the line

I was referring to buying pies at the Amex... although often they are available, hot, crispy, delicious and the one I ordered

 

[Guy Fawkes]

What am I? A fan
How does the club make me feel? A Customer
Did I feel this way 2+ years ago? No
Will it eventually take away my passion for the Albion? Eventually, yes

I don't get this, firstly you still have the choice as to whether you go or not, whether you buy merchanise or other goods and services or not.

And secondly, how is it different to the Withdean, at Gillingham or the Goldstone, where the club tried to sell you merchandise and other goods and services as well as tickets for matches.

Why suddenly this bizarre reaction that seems to be saying that you suddenly find it offensive that they are still doing what they (the club) have been doing for decades?

 

[Return of the Rev]

stakeholder

 

[rocker959]

Terrace fodder in the Bellotti / Archer days...... seat fodder now.

 

[Ali_rrr]

I would describe myself in many ways. A fan to other people, customer to the club and a cow to Barber.

 

[Triggaaar]

I don't find it offensive in the slightest. I'm both a fan and a customer as I purchase goods and services from the club.

I really don't understand why everyone is getting so precious over this

I don't actually support Brighton any more. It's clear they want to charge me to go to games, and they want to invest my money in new players etc, and to be honest it makes me sick.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I don't find it offensive in the slightest. I'm both a fan and a customer as I purchase goods and services from the club.

I really don't understand why everyone is getting so precious over this

Agreed.

 

[Seagull27]

At the Withdean we had a modest mobile van selling merchandise. These days we have constant emails, texts, screens all around the ground, shameless promotions on seagulls player - it's relentless advertising, it's so superficial, it's not what I want my club to represent. You don't need to bombard us with this, we're fans, we'll buy the latest shirt and end of season DVD regardless.

Before we had the Withdean Wager, a classic and honest raffle that only made the club a tiny amount of money if anything at all- and its main purpose was a bit of fun. Now we have those absolute cons such as the Albion Hat-Trick and Seagulls lotto, they're not even fun, they're just cons with outrageous odds of winning any kind of prize let alone a decent one, its sole purpose is to make as much money from the fans as it can, all the venders all militantly lined up as you enter the ground, it's embarrassing and so plastic.

Then you have bloody candy stands, 1901 club, 50p increase in programmes (how f***ing petty), Gully's Group, £1 vote for your MOTM, charging money to be a mascot, the plans for AITC to start making profit.... the list goes on.

We are becoming a plastic, soulless, money making corporate club - it's embarrassing, it's not football, it's not what the Albion should represent. We may as well rename the ground to "American Express Corporate Stadium" because that's where we are headed.

and let's be honest, the atmosphere at the Amex isn't very good. The North Stand is the only place in the ground that makes noise and it appears that the club might clamp down on their standing which will be a huge blow to the atmosphere. Safe Standing was a great option which could have easily been trialed in the corners where the seats are yet to be installed, but the club rejected that as it's not economically viable.

For the first time in all my years of being an Albion fan I feel as if the club don't give a shit about any of us, all it considers when making any of its decisions is making as much money as it can from us.

In other words it sees us as customers rather than fans - they're different ways of describing the same thing - supporters - but with different but very important connotations.


Edit: bloody hell, I didn't realise I wrote such a big rant, and I didn't even mention the ticketing system/prices - apologies

Would you rather we don't make profits, lose our best players to keep the balance sheets level, slide down the league and eventually end up getting relegated - followed by probably severe financial trouble with the costs of the Amex in League One?

As that is what will most likely happen if we don't adhere to the FFP rules coming in. I don't think a lot of people appreciate how much money our stadium/club costs to run compared to many other clubs and most of the recent changes, certainly all the financially motivated ones, are very much needed so that we can compete at a high level.

I don't know what else you expect us to do to be honest. Your gripes with the club seem more to do with high level football in general, and for us to compete at a high level we don't really have a lot of choice.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

At the Withdean we had a modest mobile van selling merchandise. These days we have constant emails, texts, screens all around the ground, shameless promotions on seagulls player - it's relentless advertising, it's so superficial, it's not what I want my club to represent. You don't need to bombard us with this, we're fans, we'll buy the latest shirt and end of season DVD regardless.

Before we had the Withdean Wager, a classic and honest raffle that only made the club a tiny amount of money if anything at all- and its main purpose was a bit of fun. Now we have those absolute cons such as the Albion Hat-Trick and Seagulls lotto, they're not even fun, they're just cons with outrageous odds of winning any kind of prize let alone a decent one, its sole purpose is to make as much money from the fans as it can, all the venders all militantly lined up as you enter the ground, it's embarrassing and so plastic.

Then you have bloody candy stands, 1901 club, 50p increase in programmes (how f***ing petty), Gully's Group, £1 vote for your MOTM, charging money to be a mascot, the plans for AITC to start making profit.... the list goes on.

We are becoming a plastic, soulless, money making corporate club - it's embarrassing, it's not football, it's not what the Albion should represent. We may as well rename the ground to "American Express Corporate Stadium" because that's where we are headed.

For the first time in all my years of being an Albion fan I feel as if the club don't give a shit about any of us, all it considers when making any of its decisions is making as much money as it can from us.

In other words it sees us as customers rather than fans - they're different ways of describing the same thing - supporters - but with different but very important connotations.


Edit: bloody hell, I didn't realise I wrote such a big rant - apologies

So you admit a lot of what they are doing now isn't anything new (merchandise sold at ground, wager tickets etc) but you don't like it now, just because we are at a new ground.

Its a modern stadium, what did you expect, trees and a bloke in a nature reserve letting off rockets whenever we scored? Or the club to let the fans in for pennies because we have the ability to fit more fans in ? or for us not to have advertising around the ground (like there was at Withdean but seem to have been largely ignored or forgotten)

The vote for MOTM raises money for the community work side of things, its not about maximising profits. Why, just because we have a new, bigger ground, should we not try to do more to help those less fortunate (like those helped by the disabled football schemes in the videos they show on the big screens) There is nothing stopping you from ignoring it.

We coped for several years at Withdean without Gullys girls, and a fair few of the fans there and at the Amex didn't care if they were there or not once they started.

It just seems weird to me that one minute your having a go that they are getting rid of something that supposedly 'helped' AITC in the girls, then complain about the other way that helps AITC in the vote for the MOTM. And also likewise with your complaints about their selling to the fans, such as the 1901 club, but they had a hospitality area at Withdean so again nothing new, and what harm does it do to the average fan in any other part of the stadium

and let's be honest, the atmosphere at the Amex isn't very good. The North Stand is the only place in the ground that makes noise and it appears that the club might clamp down on their standing which will be a huge blow to the atmosphere. Safe Standing was a great option which could have easily been trialed in the corners where the seats are yet to be installed, but the club rejected that as it's not economically viable.

So was the atmosphere at Withdean good then?
Its the fans who make the atmosphere, as seen last season, and its up to them to make noise and create a good atmosphere again this season and imo it's far better than anything we had at Withdean or Gillingham.

Hate to break this to you, but standing is illegal at football grounds and until the law changes, it will continue to be. The club do not have a choice and its not the club who have said well we could have had it, but it's our choice not to despite what our fans think. How can the club trial something which isn't allowed by law?

We are becoming a plastic, soulless, money making corporate club - it's embarrassing, it's not football, it's not what the Albion should represent. We may as well rename the ground to "American Express Corporate Stadium" because that's where we are headed.

Sounds like you are reading too much of the rubbish thats posted on here and believing it. For me nothing has changed between last season (when Ken Brown was described as the invisible man and doing nothing at the club) and this season (with Barber doing the CEO role) I still get my entry to the ground, the opportunity to buy or the option not to buy anything that is offered there and to watch my team play in a great stadium.

We have good food, beers and ales available, very comfortable seats, great views of our team playing in the second level of English football and being competitive, something we would never have at Withdean.

We lost shed loads of money at Withdean and it was unsustainable. If we had stayed there, we would have gone bust.

It sounds to me that you would prefer a team that only ever played in the bottom 2 divisions at the Amex, with smaller crowds and a much poorer quality team to watch, but build a stadium like we have if thats all we are ever going to achieve? We have a fan base (hence the sell out games) so why not try to expand it and help keep this club alive for many more years to come.

Maybe its just a case of some feeling that the club no longer relies on their attendance to survive, (which in reality it didn't anyway) and an unexplainable sense they have that the club something for their years of buying a match day ticket to watch a football match. I wonder if they think that their petrol stations owe them something for their years of filling up their car, or supermarkets owe them something for buying their shopping from them over the years?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I don't actually support Brighton any more. It's clear they want to charge me to go to games, and they want to invest my money in new players etc, and to be honest it makes me sick.

Lolz

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Terrace fodder in the Bellotti / Archer days...... seat fodder now.

What do people expect for buying a match day ticket - a seat on the directors board? Some people have far too much expectation for what they get from a ticket.

Its funny how so many say we need to break our budgets and buy strikers etc, yet moan when fans are sold stuff which will help the club achieve that aim. So many take the mickey out of teams like Pompey who lost millions and are in a terrible state as a result, yet want us to go down the same route. If we want a successful team, then its going to cost money, where else should this come from?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Our attendance figures, beer and pie sales, and I'm sure practically every other projection have been double what was expected before we moved in. There is no doubt the club is making great profits already and it will continue to do so. The problem I have is that the club is selling its soul in the process when it doesn't need to- it's becoming everything I hate about football - we're becoming a plastic club devoid of any passion or uniqueness which operates like a business rather than how a football club should.

I understand that you consider that this is the only way for the club to compete, but I beg to differ. The Albion has always been unique and it can continue to be, it could even set a new standard in English football. The faith I have in this point is because I look to German football (amongst other European leagues) for inspiration in that they still have rational ticket pricing (match day tickets are half the price of what we pay per match with our season tickets) yet they still keep all the the things that keep each team unique and the football experience real - they haven't sold out despite modern day player wages. They have safe standing, great atmospheres, affordable ticketing - German football is not a corporate experience, and Brighton & Hove Albion doesn't have to be either.

All the club needs to do is make the fans the main focus rather than these commercial ideas, listen to us and not turn our football into some shitty Americanised sports event riddled with advertising and quirky money making schemes, completely selling its soul and changing Brighton & Hove Albion for the worse.

How do you think we will pay Bloom for the stadium & training ground?

 

[Seagull27]

Our attendance figures, beer and pie sales, and I'm sure practically every other projection have been double what was expected before we moved in. There is no doubt the club is making great profits already and it will continue to do so. The problem I have is that the club is selling its soul in the process when it doesn't need to- it's becoming everything I hate about football - we're becoming a plastic club devoid of any passion or uniqueness which operates like a business rather than how a football club should.

I understand that you consider that this is the only way for the club to compete, but I beg to differ. The Albion has always been unique and it can continue to be, it could even set a new standard in English football. The faith I have in this point is because I look to German football (amongst other European leagues) for inspiration in that they still have rational ticket pricing (match day tickets are half the price of what we pay per match with our season tickets) yet they still keep all the the things that keep each team unique and the football experience real - they haven't sold out despite modern day player wages. They have safe standing, great atmospheres, affordable ticketing - German football is not a corporate experience, and Brighton & Hove Albion doesn't have to be either.

All the club needs to do is make the fans the main focus rather than these commercial ideas, listen to us and not turn our football into some shitty Americanised sports event riddled with advertising and quirky money making schemes, completely selling its soul and changing Brighton & Hove Albion for the worse.

I accept your points and understand them, but I'm not sure we're turning over as major profit as many of us think. The pies and pints, as fantastic as the have been, are pretty insignificant in profit compared to ticketing. And I might be wrong - perhaps someone else can back me up - but I'm sure I read somewhere that with things as they are, we only break even if we sell something around 16k tickets. Which isn't a huge problem now, but definitely could be a few years down the line if we're not doing well financially and attendances start falling.

 

[5mins-from-amex]

So you admit a lot of what they are doing now isn't anything new (merchandise sold at ground, wager tickets etc) but you don't like it now, just because we are at a new ground.

Its a modern stadium, what did you expect, trees and a bloke in a nature reserve letting off rockets whenever we scored? Or the club to let the fans in for pennies because we have the ability to fit more fans in ? or for us not to have advertising around the ground (like there was at Withdean but seem to have been largely ignored or forgotten)

The vote for MOTM raises money for the community work side of things, its not about maximising profits. Why, just because we have a new, bigger ground, should we not try to do more to help those less fortunate (like those helped by the disabled football schemes in the videos they show on the big screens) There is nothing stopping you from ignoring it.

We coped for several years at Withdean without Gullys girls, and a fair few of the fans there and at the Amex didn't care if they were there or not once they started.

It just seems weird to me that one minute your having a go that they are getting rid of something that supposedly 'helped' AITC in the girls, then complain about the other way that helps AITC in the vote for the MOTM. And also likewise with your complaints about their selling to the fans, such as the 1901 club, but they had a hospitality area at Withdean so again nothing new, and what harm does it do to the average fan in any other part of the stadium



So was the atmosphere at Withdean good then?
Its the fans who make the atmosphere, as seen last season, and its up to them to make noise and create a good atmosphere again this season and imo it's far better than anything we had at Withdean or Gillingham.

Hate to break this to you, but standing is illegal at football grounds and until the law changes, it will continue to be. The club do not have a choice and its not the club who have said well we could have had it, but it's our choice not to despite what our fans think. How can the club trial something which isn't allowed by law?



Sounds like you are reading too much of the rubbish thats posted on here and believing it. For me nothing has changed between last season (when Ken Brown was described as the invisible man and doing nothing at the club) and this season (with Barber doing the CEO role) I still get my entry to the ground, the opportunity to buy or the option not to buy anything that is offered there and to watch my team play in a great stadium.

We have good food, beers and ales available, very comfortable seats, great views of our team playing in the second level of English football and being competitive, something we would never have at Withdean.

We lost shed loads of money at Withdean and it was unsustainable. If we had stayed there, we would have gone bust.

It sounds to me that you would prefer a team that only ever played in the bottom 2 divisions at the Amex, with smaller crowds and a much poorer quality team to watch, but build a stadium like we have if thats all we are ever going to achieve? We have a fan base (hence the sell out games) so why not try to expand it and help keep this club alive for many more years to come.

Maybe its just a case of some feeling that the club no longer relies on their attendance to survive, (which in reality it didn't anyway) and an unexplainable sense they have that the club something for their years of buying a match day ticket to watch a football match. I wonder if they think that their petrol stations owe them something for their years of filling up their car, or supermarkets owe them something for buying their shopping from them over the years?

Top post, that could not be made any more black and white!

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Our attendance figures, beer and pie sales, and I'm sure practically every other projection have been double what was expected before we moved in. There is no doubt the club is making great profits already and it will continue to do so. The problem I have is that the club is selling its soul in the process when it doesn't need to- it's becoming everything I hate about football - we're becoming a plastic club devoid of any passion or uniqueness which operates like a business rather than how a football club should.

How should a football club operate? Make a huge loss and be bailed out by a 1p in the £1 deal.

The fans make the stadium what is it, i heard no complaints last season about the ground, in fact quite the opposite but it is down to us, the fans, to generate an atmosphere and make it feel like our home. Maybe instead of every attempt by some of our fans at making an atmosphere being shouted down or dismissed, others at games should try to join in and try new songs, etc.

I understand that you consider that this is the only way for the club to compete, but I beg to differ. The Albion has always been unique and it can continue to be, it could even set a new standard in English football. The faith I have in this point is because I look to German football (amongst other European leagues) for inspiration in that they still have rational ticket pricing (match day tickets are half the price of what we pay per match with our season tickets) yet they still keep all the the things that keep each team unique and the football experience real - they haven't sold out despite modern day player wages. They have safe standing, great atmospheres, affordable ticketing - German football is not a corporate experience, and Brighton & Hove Albion doesn't have to be either.

So the club is a charity then? it shouldn't break even and should only continue to operate by being bailed out by the bank balances of wealthy men.

Fans want us to grow and compete and try to get to the top flight but this costs money, where does it come from. How do you pay for better players or better facilities.

I think you would find they have match day programmes, merchandise, etc in the German leagues too (and at every other ground in the country, and at all of our previous grounds when we were there, it's nothing new)

All the club needs to do is make the fans the main focus rather than these commercial ideas, listen to us and not turn our football into some shitty Americanised sports event riddled with advertising and quirky money making schemes, completely selling its soul and changing Brighton & Hove Albion for the worse.

Or do you think that because we are Brighton and Hove Albion, we should ignore common sense, ignore the need to compete, ignore that it costs money to do that and think that because we buy a ticket, we are much more than a punter and given our fight to save the club and gain a new ground we deserve much more? if so, like what, a seat on the board of directors? a say in every decision? Where else does that ever happen?

 

[HastingsSeagull]

Both yeah