[Misc] F1 2021

[Bold Seagull]

Bit of a rumour floating around that Mercedes have played a very clever hand by taking the new engine at Brazil.

They knew that with the power of DRS at Brazil being so strong they'd be able to make passes. They also know that any new ICE taken for this race can, in theory, be run harder for what remains of the season. They now have a very new (1 race only; brazil) and 1 part used (3 races, one of which was wet) pair of engines to take them to the end of the season. They possible have other engines in the pool that are still usable on Friday's as well.

So, what have the actually got then? That new engine they took "only" needs to do four races, when they're designed for double that. So ... in theory they can run that engine harder in each of those four races. Tune it for more performance rather than more reliability, and they suddenly have an advantage over Red Bull. If they see signs that Brazil engine isn't coping with the higher performance settings, they have the previous engine to fall back on if necessary.

Would go a long way towards explaining why Hamilton was so much faster than Bottas this weekend, as well as how easily he was able to scythe his way through the field.

Not cheating; just very, very clever.

Didn't Bottas take a new engine in the US Grand Prix? Might explain why he out qualified Hamilton in Mexico, however Bottas has shown little of the race pace Lewis has had despite having his own new engine.

 

[Audax]

Didn't Bottas take a new engine in the US Grand Prix? Might explain why he out qualified Hamilton in Mexico, however Bottas has shown little of the race pace Lewis has had despite having his own new engine.

Bottas has had a few new engines. Ostensibly, they had reliability concerns. In reality, as much as it hasn't come across clearly Bottas *has* had an uptick in his performances during the period that may point to Merc using him as a guinea pig to figure what they could reasonably achieve with Hamilton. He was quick in Turkey, he was quick at Monza (when he took a new ICE). The other thing that's come out in the press after the weekend is that the Merc engine apparently loses more performance than the Honda across it's lifespan, and that's usually reflected in a fresh Merc being quicker initially, then degrading faster. Think the example used was that Merc loses about 0.2s per lap across it's life, while the Honda loses half that.

Certainly it looks like Hamilton had something extra this weekend - they've been generally 0.55% faster than the fastest non-Mrec / non-RBR cars. At Brazil Hamilton was 0.98% faster than those cars.

 

[Nitram]

Being reported that stewards did not have in car footage of Max at the wheel (as suspected) and that they have requested to see it. If he gets a 5 second penalty could see him being placed third. Red Bull would go into a meltdown! Not holding my breath though.

 

[Audax]

Being reported that stewards did not have in car footage of Max at the wheel (as suspected) and that they have requested to see it. If he gets a 5 second penalty could see him being placed third. Red Bull would go into a meltdown! Not holding my breath though.

It's too late to impose a penalty now - the race result has been declared and the deadlines for doing anything like that have expired. None of the mainstream F1 press articles I've seen on it have suggested that any penalty can, or would, be imposed once the in-car footage is reviewed.

 

[GREASED WEASEL]

Phillipe Massa such a nice fella

Remember jumping up & down when LH pinched the WC off him

Wish he'd won it now

That said I'd like to see LH beat Schumi's record

 

[Nitram]

It's too late to impose a penalty now - the race result has been declared and the deadlines for doing anything like that have expired. None of the mainstream F1 press articles I've seen on it have suggested that any penalty can, or would, be imposed once the in-car footage is reviewed.

It can and has been already tried this season. If there is new evidence. Red Bull tried it when Lewis came together with Max at Silverstone to get a stiffer penalty. The appeal was dismissed by the stewards.

 

[Creaky]

As a spectator I was glad that MV didn’t get a 5/10 second penalty during the race. All that would have meant was that LH only needed to sit behind MV in order to win the race. As it was, we were treated to two brilliant drivers continuing to fight it out for the lead.

 

[Seasider78]

The Audi / mclaren takeover rumour officially quashed

https://twitter.com/mclarenf1/status/1460227006289915908?s=21

 

[Hugo Rune]

It can and has been already tried this season. If there is new evidence. Red Bull tried it when Lewis came together with Max at Silverstone to get a stiffer penalty. The appeal was dismissed by the stewards.

The footage has been requested by the FIA but was not available at the time.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.gpfans.com/amp/article.php?id=72217

If the onboard camera shows Max straightening the wheel after the initial 1/2 turn, it will be clear that he drove LH off the track on purpose.

Hopefully a grid penalty could then be applied for the next race.

 

[Icy Gull]

The footage has been requested by the FIA but was not available at the time.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.gpfans.com/amp/article.php?id=72217

If the onboard camera shows Max straightening the wheel after the initial 1/2 turn, it will be clear that he drove LH off the track on purpose.

Hopefully a grid penalty could then be applied for the next race.

What? Reduce Red Bulls chance of winning the Championship, no chance. There is an agenda to get a new world champion says this cynic. Good for the sport and the money

 

[rogersix]

I need to watch it back again, but from memory he had a kick of oversteer. That would then necessitate a quick steering correction to the right. As much as I really dislike Verstappen (he's an amazing talent, but he's also a spoiled brat with a heap of maturing still to do) I don't think what he did was a deliberate attempt to run Hamilton off. It was, rather, a badly misjudged desperate attempt to stay ahead. He ran too deep into the corner before braking, then carried too much speed, all of which then led to running wide, kick of oversteer, and both of them having to take to the run off.

Personally - I think Hamilton was ahead at corner entry. and would have held it around the outside. Therefore, Verstappen running them both wide = gaining an advantage by leaving the track = he should have been asked to hand the place to Hamilton. Fail to do so, impose 5 second penalty. Or at least, that's the precedent the stewards have been setting for a while. But it's starting to look like they're moving back towards "let them race" again (eg the Alonso / Kimi incident at COTA).

Was interesting that the C4 commentary team (Coulthard mostly) didn't back Hamilton on this one. All their bleating was aimed at not wanting a penalty to decide what was a thrilling battle between the two.




He's allowed to defend robustly, but he's not allowed to force another car off track (whether deliberate or not). That's effectively what happened, so in theory Verstappen should have received a penalty.



Edit: Interesting. Just seen a quote from Hamilton that indicates he didn't feel the Verstappen off-track excursion was anything he was too bothered by: “I haven’t looked at it but in the heat of the moment, I didn’t really think that much about it,” said Hamilton. “It’s a hard battle and I wouldn’t be expecting anything less.”

coulthard did drive for rb, he has always been biased

 

[Icy Gull]

coulthard did drive for rb, he has always been biased

Indeed, he resisted giving LH any praise as a top all time driver for years, until he started looking like a dickhead, same with Jackie Stewart. Coulthard is Red Bull through and through. Jackie Stewart is just a man living in the past and totally irrelevant today.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Edit: Interesting. Just seen a quote from Hamilton that indicates he didn't feel the Verstappen off-track excursion was anything he was too bothered by: “I haven’t looked at it but in the heat of the moment, I didn’t really think that much about it,” said Hamilton. “It’s a hard battle and I wouldn’t be expecting anything less.”

That is interesting, thanks for posting. Hamiltons a racer, he gets they were both on the edge, both diving deep and taking risks. He reassessed and went again tens laps later with a much safer manoeuvre. They look like two lions, two champions to me. Long may it last

 

[WATFORD zero]

That is interesting, thanks for posting. Hamiltons a racer, he gets they were both on the edge, both diving deep and taking risks. He reassessed and went again tens laps later with a much safer manoeuvre. They look like two lions, two champions to me. Long may it last

It is absolutely cracking entertainment

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

Verstappen on board footage now released

https://twitter.com/SkySportsF1/status/1460584835563630593?s=20

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...-48-battle-in-brazil.1716586615244940261.html

 

[Icy Gull]

Verstappen on board footage now released

https://twitter.com/SkySportsF1/status/1460584835563630593?s=20

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...-48-battle-in-brazil.1716586615244940261.html

Braked too late and turned left very hard..once Hamilton was forced off. I can see why he didn’t get a penalty

 

[Guinness Boy]

Braked too late and turned left very hard..once Hamilton was forced off. I can see why he didn’t get a penalty

Yep, this. Far too late on the brakes but then does try to avoid it.

You can put this down to a racing incident. However, there's still no excuse for weaving on a straight though.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Braked too late and turned left very hard..once Hamilton was forced off. I can see why he didn’t get a penalty

Agreed.

Annoying for Hamilton though. He’d forced Verstappen into a mistake but his track position meant that he could not take advantage. If he’d been further back, he’d have been able to cut in behind Max and pass him on track. What was essential was for Lewis to be giving Max plenty of space, you can’t race too close when you are chasing in the Championship because Max will be the beneficiary from a collision that takes both of them out.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Braked too late and turned left very hard..once Hamilton was forced off. I can see why he didn’t get a penalty

Wouldn't have described it as 'very hard' - no lock ups, no sliding, he basically went Hail Mary into the corner knowing he'd either take his title rival out if he didn't move, or just run safely out to a huge run-off. Although there is no definitive snap of the steering wheel, still says to me he had no real intent to make the corner. Difficult to prove though I guess, hence the stewards ducked it.

 

[zefarelly]

Delayed reactions, I thought you turned the wheel before you ran out of road not as you ran out of road. Very cool calm and calculated.