[News] Exploding pagers across Lebanon

[Seagull58]

My error, the amount of civilian injuries is unknown, although we do know for certain two children were killed.

Do you think it an acceptable tactic to be used against the IDF in Tel Aviv?

Hezbollah is a proscribed terrorist organisation None of their attacks are acceptable.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

No Jews, no news

Zelenskyy is the first Jewish president of Ukraine; with Volodymyr Groysman as prime minister, Ukraine became the first country other than Israel to simultaneously have a Jewish head of state and head of government.

 

[pocketseagull]

Hezbollah is a proscribed terrorist organisation None of their attacks are acceptable.

I didn't mention Hezbollah, I just wanted you to answer if you think it would be an acceptable tactic of war to be used against IDF in Tel Aviv?

 

[Seagull58]

oh please. Hezbollah is in no position to conduct a war of annihilation. they are terrorists who greatly impact on the peaceful living of those in northen Israel. taking out their leaders in assassinations is fair game. shooting soliders on the battlefield, standard warfare. deliberatly injuring soliders, posing no immediate threat, in public spaces is just nasty.

The objective of Hezbollah and Hamas is to destroy the State of Isreal though, isn't it? They are supported by Iran and Syria who also have that stated objective. Iranian leaders have repeated it several times.

 

[Seagull58]

I didn't mention Hezbollah, I just wanted you to answer if you think it would be an acceptable tactic of war to be used against IDF in Tel Aviv?

It depends on the circumstances and on who the war is between. If it's a hypothetical against an unknown enemy it's impossible to answer.

 

[borat]

My error, the amount of civilian injuries is unknown, although we do know for certain two children were killed.

Do you think it an acceptable tactic to be used against the IDF in Tel Aviv?

Side point but important. Under international law the occupied (Palestinians) have a right to resist their occupiers and that includes "armed struggle" (UN resolution 37/43)

 

[rippleman]

That's not whataboutery.
I'm highlighting that there doesn't seem to be any means that Jews are allowed to defend themselves against a foe whose stated aim is to kill them all.
This is defence against a war of annihilation. On several fronts. Maiming your enemy's combatants is kind of normal in war.
But unacceptable for Jews, evidently

My bolding.

Yes, it is. But maiming (or killing) tens of thousands of innocent non-combatants including children really isn't "normal". In another time, at another place, it would be called genocide.

And please don't make this a "Jewish" issue. It really isn't. I have marched with Jews on pro-Palestinian marches over the attrocities in Gaza. I have seen Jews protesting on the streets of Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. The problem lies square at the door of the extreme rightwing government of the State of Israel. It is disingenuous in the extreme to try to make this into an anti-Jewish issue. It isn't.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You can't be sure that it will achieve nothing useful. There are examples in history of terrorist organisations renouncing violence and embracing peaceful, political means, and examples of terrorist organisations pretty much ceasing to exist. The IRA as the former and the Tamil Tigers as the latter. Also, Frelimo, Swapo, Sandanista etc. etc.

Sorry, not following your point. I was saying that it doesn't matter whether we think that the collateral deaths associated with the pager bombs means that this act is not as bad as 9/11 or is just as bad (in a game of terror top trumps). I think it means 'not as bad' but I don't think that what I think will affect anything going forward, for the reasons explained.

And related to that, I don't think that the pager bombs has made it any more or less likely that Hamas or Hezbollah will make peace with Israel (that was not my point by the way, my point was about whether what we think about it will have any influence on whether Hamas or Hezbollah will make peace with Israel (and indeed, vice versa)).

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

It's a very complex, awful situation that has been going on for close to 80 years with 2 full-blown wars and continual border incidents. Impossible, imo, to say with any degree of conviction whether the Israeli response is acceptable or not without knowing how the conflict will evolve. If you think that's a cop out then so be it.

I do think it is a cop out.

You do not care either, that is your opinion and your certainly allowed to hold it, but it speaks volumes to me.

I am done holding a conversation with you, because I can be persuaded with valid points and arguments.
You clearly have an allegiance to a death machine that kills just as indiscriminately as Hezbollah and Hamas.

Good luck with your life.

 

[aolstudios]

oh please. Hezbollah is in no position to conduct a war of annihilation. they are terrorists who greatly impact on the peaceful living of those in northen Israel. taking out their leaders in assassinations is fair game. shooting soliders on the battlefield, standard warfare. deliberatly injuring soliders, posing no immediate threat, in public spaces is just nasty.

Hezbollah & Hamas are armed & commanded by the Iranian regime (& Qatar), whose stated intention is also to kill all Jews.
I'm very comfortable with 'being nasty' to any of the above. None of whom are the tiniest bit better than Nazis

 

[Shaktarman]

Without wishing to divert the thread but in direct response to your post, so what is your view of the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

No that’s fine - I actually thought this when I wrote it. That is a different case to this of course, but Putin and those Russians going along with it are a disgrace. I appreciate I probably now look a hypocrite, although I don’t think Ukraine are bombing Russia & killing innocent civilians that I know of (I actually don’t read the news on this shit as it’s too harrowing).

 

[aolstudios]

But what is acceptable for jews evidently is indiscriminately bomb civilians, hospitals and schools killing 43000. 43000 let that sink in....

Is that an appropriate response ?

You keep obsessively quoting that figure. Which comes directly from Hamas. & even they recently had to admit their figures were wildly exaggerated. Still if it makes you feel good, you do you

 

[aolstudios]

Zelenskyy is the first Jewish president of Ukraine; with Volodymyr Groysman as prime minister, Ukraine became the first country other than Israel to simultaneously have a Jewish head of state and head of government.

I'm well aware of that but Ukraine isn't generally viewed as 'Jews', is it

 

[hans kraay fan club]

You keep obsessively quoting that figure. Which comes directly from Hamas. & even they recently had to admit their figures were wildly exaggerated. Still if it makes you feel good, you do you

Would 30,000 be okay?

25,000?

 

[aolstudios]

The objective of Hezbollah and Hamas is to destroy the State of Isreal though, isn't it? They are supported by Iran and Syria who also have that stated objective. Iranian leaders have repeated it several times.

Well, exactly

 

[Blue3]

This if proven to be as a result of the state of Israel would be an act of terroisum and our government should be applying strong sanctions to the state of Israel.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

would have liked to think so, however the way they have prosecuted their war since makes one suspicious. they have no intent to resolve the crisis other than through subjugation of Gaza, and seem to have started on West Bank too.

Private Eye have been mocking Israel's tendency to go in for 'smiting' for decades. Israel always responds to an attack by returning the insult many-fold. They have done this time and time again. I wasn't remotely surprised by the Israeli response to the attack from Gaza. If anything I was expecting it to be even more indiscriminate.

In fact I will flip this around - Hamas attacked Israel precisely to trigger the response from Israel anyone half awake knew would follow, in order to curry sympathy from those of us who feel the Palestinians have been mistreated, and dislike Bibi and his gang. I am certainly in that camp. The Palestinians have been treated very badly for decades. And Bibi is a nasty antidemocratic shit who has sold his soul to the zealots in return for power. But I am not prepared to do what Hamas want: for me to forget that, on this occasion, they started it.

 

[aolstudios]

Would 30,000 be okay?

25,000?

You tell me. It's a war. What would've been acceptable in ww2? (Crucially, including combatants - even Hamas have had to admit they're included).
My point was that he was obsessively quoting a figure that was absolute bullshit.
Also, let's not forget. Without October 7th, that figure would read 0.
(although the figures include a big bunch that would've died of natural causes anyway)

 

[mickybha]

 

[borat]

This if proven to be as a result of the state of Israel would be an act of terroisum and our government should be applying strong sanctions to the state of Israel.

Very wishful thinking. Israel is untouchable for a variety of reasons