Evolution debate.

[Bold Seagull]

---Deja Vu---

 

[BadFish]

But it is in the interest of the Creation Ministries to help her enormously is it not? Im sure she has spent a pretty penny on gathering all those shelves of books.

Of course, they make a fortune out of her.

 

[BadFish]

While some friends and I were walking along the beach recently we observed a group of people closely studying the face of the sea cliff. One of them told us they were a group of creationists who were trying to prove that the geology in the cliff face reflected their beliefs. We had an interesting discussion and moved on.

My own friends were quite polite and didn't mention to this group that they are both eminent Professors of geology with decades of academic research and practical experience around the world. Their opinion was that the geology in the cliff face is commonly regarded as being formed over several million years and certainly impossible in only 6000. I'm sure that a really 'spirited' discussion could have happened but we chose to move on.

Although I am a committed evolutionist I found myself reflecting on this event and why creationists are so devoted to their beliefs when the evidence seems to be to the contrary.

I think this part is the most telling, They were not looking at the cliffs to find clues as to our history, They were trying to fit the evidence found in the cliff to their existing beliefs.

 

[Creaky]

I am an atheist but I can't prove that the world wasn't created yesterday!

If, as creationists believe, there is an all powerful being then he/she/it could have created the universe just a few hours ago, together with implanted memories in all the sentient beings in the universe and the 'evidence' to show that it was created 14 billion years ago.

 

[symyjym]

While some friends and I were walking along the beach recently we observed a group of people closely studying the face of the sea cliff. One of them told us they were a group of creationists who were trying to prove that the geology in the cliff face reflected their beliefs. We had an interesting discussion and moved on.

My own friends were quite polite and didn't mention to this group that they are both eminent Professors of geology with decades of academic research and practical experience around the world. Their opinion was that the geology in the cliff face is commonly regarded as being formed over several million years and certainly impossible in only 6000. I'm sure that a really 'spirited' discussion could have happened but we chose to move on.

Although I am a committed evolutionist I found myself reflecting on this event and why creationists are so devoted to their beliefs when the evidence seems to be to the contrary.

The hope of life after death, or when you lose someone hoping they are being looked after, giving them a reason to be on this Earth, even though there is no real point. I guess there are many reasons why mankind looked to find God and it's probably for emotional and mortality reasons. Believing in God is as part of our evolution as science is.

I believe that any other intelligent civilisation in the Universe would have gone through a religious age and this is what we are at the end of now.

In any case a belief in God gives people comfort in life and I wouldn’t want to spoil it for them.

 

[symyjym]

I am an atheist but I can't prove that the world wasn't created yesterday!

Yes you can, just go through all the posts you have made in the last year

 

[Creaky]

Yes you can, just go through all the posts you have made in the last year

God made those

 

[pastafarian]

Yes you can, just go through all the posts you have made in the last year

 

[Triggaaar]

Evolution is not Science its still only a theory. So until Evolution is conclusively proven without a shadow of doubt then it will continue to be debated.

Don't let the definition of theories cloud what is a simple fact. Evolution is not something that occurred in the past, it is something which still happens and can be observed. Evolutionary changes can be witnessed in quite short time-frames with some animals etc, due to their rate of procreation.

It will continue to be debated, just as other facts are debated by people that can't accept the truth.

 

[Acker79]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/messages-from-creationists-to-people-who-believe-in-evolutio

 

[Creaky]

Your right on this statement, but Evolution is not Science its still only a theory. So until Evolution is conclusively proven without a shadow of doubt then it will continue to be debated.

I think you are confusing the use of the word theory when used in a scientific context with the same word which when used in a colloquial sense suggests a guess - in science the word used for such a situation is hypothesis.

A scientific theory is a model that has been tested by observation and repeated testing to such an extent that it becomes accepted by the scientific community as valid.

A hypothesis has to be falsifiable - i.e. that were a particular observation or test carried out then the result could prove the hypothesis to be incorrect - the hypothesis becomes a theory or accepted fact following repeated observations and tests without any disproving the hypothesis.

Belief in God is not falsifiable as there are no tests or observations possible that could prove He doesn't exist therefore such a belief could never become an hypothesis let alone a theory or an accepted scientific fact.

 

[Goring-by-Seagull]

Just follow @GSpellchecker on twitter. He has all the answers.

Believing in god is stupid, as there are over 3,000 "gods". So if you believe in "god", you're not believing in over 3,000 other "gods". So an atheist believes in 1 less god than a Christian (for example).

"God"... Just the word makes me laugh.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

since you are asking about process and construction have a read up on Niche Construction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niche_construction

Interesting read. However all that does is explain a process. Not how the process came to be and what started it off.

Similar to the Big Bang theory. If the hypothesis is correct what set such a reaction off?

 

[BadFish]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/messages-from-creationists-to-people-who-believe-in-evolutio

Some interesting questions there, some silly ones too.

I suppose that somewhere there are 22 questions for creationists too.

From what I understand there are many questions that scientists are still looking for answers to. The fact that there are still questions doesn't mean that the theory is wrong it just means that their are questions that still need to be answered. The great thing about science is that if the evidence proves them wrong then they will rethink their theory.



Not sure if this was actually said but hey I haven't watched the whole thing yet.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Maybe it was a god, but it didn't happen 6000 years ago.

Well I think it's only the extreme creationists that follow that path.

After all it was a Priest of all people in Georges Lemaitre who proposed the big bang theory.

A lot of people who feel a creationist aspect of the worlds evolution is present feel that way simply because they have looked around the world and seen what they feel is an inteligent design present in everything around us.

Creationism and Evolution don't need to be exclusive of each other.

 

[BadFish]

Interesting read. However all that does is explain a process. Not how the process came to be and what started it off.

Similar to the Big Bang theory. If the hypothesis is correct what set such a reaction off?

Am i right in thinking that the question of what started it all has not been answered yet?

The question always gets me thinking about a similar question about the origins of God. How was he created? What happened before him? Is he also of intelligent design?

It is interesting that in the RE classes i sit in on at work that kids always ask about he creation of god and the answer is usually something about god having always existed. Really though if scientists are trying to address the origins of evolution then surely we can expect a better answer from theists. (maybe there is a better answer out there, I am sure someone will enlighten me if this is the case)

It is one of those interesting contradictions that Creationists use for intelligent design. Something so perfect, so wondrous and so amazing must be the result of intelligent design. the most wonderful, amazing and fantastic thing is god. Therefore surely God can only have come about by intelligent design. If this is the case then who designed God?

 

[Ken Livingstone Seagull]

Well, I for one will await hybrid x to enter the fray.

Until then I will fill in as Devil's Advocate. That there is at least a third possibility that explains a bit of both theories, as flawed as they are. That our species was genetically manipulated by "outside forces". How does science explain why 97% of our DNA is "junk"? Put another way, we can all agree that an understanding of 3% of DNA suggests it's pretty awesome in its magnitude, but science has no answer or insight to almost all of the rest. We just don't know. I for one refuse to accept that it's simply useless junk.

So I prefer to believe that science is not the Be All and End All, any more than Religion and a literal reading of the Bible. Science too can be manipulated. Keep an Open Mind, peeps; we like to think we have a clue but my money is on "we really don't".

 

[BadFish]

Well, I for one will await hybrid x to enter the fray.

Until then I will fill in as Devil's Advocate. That there is at least a third possibility that explains a bit of both theories, as flawed as they are. That our species was genetically manipulated by "outside forces". How does science explain why 97% of our DNA is "junk"? Put another way, we can all agree that an understanding of 3% of DNA suggests it's pretty awesome in its magnitude, but science has no answer or insight to almost all of the rest. We just don't know. I for one refuse to accept that it's simply useless junk.

So I prefer to believe that science is not the Be All and End All, any more than Religion and a literal reading of the Bible. Science too can be manipulated. Keep an Open Mind, peeps; we like to think we have a clue but my money is on "we really don't".

Fair points made here but I would but my faith in science to provide the answers to the unknown ahead of religion every time. Just because science doesn't currently know something it doesn't follow that it never will. I am not convinced that the same can be said of religion.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

It is one of those interesting contradictions that Creationists use for intelligent design. Something so perfect, so wondrous and so amazing must be the result of intelligent design. the most wonderful, amazing and fantastic thing is god. Therefore surely God can only have come about by intelligent design. If this is the case then who designed God?

It's the chicken or the egg with the snake chasing it's tail dilemma.

Until we can travel the universe at great speeds like Star Trek does we'll probably never know as we cannot even begin to explore the possibilities sitting still on this lump of rock

 

[Trufflehound]

Is this Groundhog Day?

Every time the adverts come on it's 'Who Killed the F*ing Zutons', I'm not buying it on principle.