Europe: In or Out

[looney]

Low quality troll or low quality poster, the net result is the same. You have little of worth to offer as your contributions to this thread demonstrate.

I think pointing out your vapid antics is worth a laugh for many. You see when I say you bring nothing I explain why, Like trying to criticise criticism rather thansticking to the issue.. Dont shoot the messenger for pointing out your stupidity.

Take heart though, your my 5th favourite bitch on this forum.

 

[Soulman]

British Prime Minister David Cameron has alleged that Britain leaving the European Union would lead to Calais ‘Jungle’-style camps in the South East of England


And today we learn...


French sources said that they would not renege on the 2003 deal, contradicting Mr Cameron’s claims.

A source at France’s Interior Ministry confirmed that his statement remains the official position and that there are “no plans” to reform the agreement.
Speaking in October, Mr Cazeneuve said: “Calling for the border with the English to be opened is not a responsible solution.
“It would send a signal to people smugglers and would lead migrants to flow to Calais in far greater numbers. A humanitarian disaster would ensue. It is a foolhardy path, and one the government will not pursue.”

 

[GT49er]

this debate should be about one thing , either you want britain to become a democratic country once again or simply be ruled by a bunch of communist unelected bureaucrats who wish to expand and strip you from your rights..

your choice it's either democracy or communism. i know whats the safer one out of the two..

The EU - communist? Bloody hell, it's all about the furtherance of self interest and capitalism.

Trade, trade and more trade (plus of course the diminution of sovereign powers to the unelected Brussels bureaucracy). If you think that's got anything to do with communism, by all means join with the right side by voting out, but apart from that.........well, apart from that just vote out!

 

[GT49er]

French sources said that they would not renege on the 2003 deal, contradicting Mr Cameron’s claims.

I never thought the day would come when I trusted the word of a French politician over the word of a British Prime Minister (albeit one who wants to keep us in the EU using any amount of lies and deceits he thinks necessary t fool - or scare - the voters. But in this case I believe the Frenchman. Good on you, monsieur, and after we've left the EU, may we continue to be good allies with you, as we were for a hundred years or so before the poxy EU came about.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

"The multi-million-pound business run by a key donor to Vote Leave – the group campaigning for Britain to leave the EU – has warned potential investors that its profits and ability to move workers and capital around the world could suffer from a British exit from the European Union.

A series of warnings about a possible “Brexit” are contained in a prospectus for sale issued by the financial trading business CMC Markets, founded and still run by the leading Eurosceptic businessman Peter Cruddas. The document, to which all directors of the company – including Cruddas – signed up last month, will be a severe embarrassment to the beleaguered Vote Leave operation."


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/06/brexit-chief-firm-quit-risks

Who cares? We are talking about the financial sector, the sector that has made everyone a lot poorer because of their own gambling over the years. Think it also points more to the fact of why this country needs to stop counting on the financial sector and start focusing on things like manufacturing again.

 

[pastafarian]

I never thought the day would come when I trusted the word of a French politician over the word of a British Prime Minister (albeit one who wants to keep us in the EU using any amount of lies and deceits he thinks necessary t fool - or scare - the voters. But in this case I believe the Frenchman. Good on you, monsieur, and after we've left the EU, may we continue to be good allies with you, as we were for a hundred years or so before the poxy EU came about.

Its crazy,the French make more sense than our own PM now

Think about it,why would the French renege on the treaty,they would turn Calais into an obscene hell hole overnight overwhelming all resources at the jungle at a time when the government is under immense pressure from Calais businessmen and French road haulers in the Nord to stop the problem.They will not deliberately make the problem worse.

Im a Tory voter and have to say thoroughly embarrassed by Camerons actions recently concerning Europe.
Not because he went to Europe and pleaded for reforms (he always said he would do this) but because not only did he simply only just beg for scraps from the table instead of anything meaningful he also had the brass pig shagging balls to stand up in front of the British people and say the scraps he had now laid on the table for everyone to lap over are a good deal.

Cameron will try to fool you saying this is a good idea so will the desperate champagne socialists like Herr T who will tell you they are surprised and didn’t believe he had it in him.

What a load of b@llocks,I hope the rest of the EU reject these plans.it sounds like they will and It will show up Cameron as having dropped a massive one on this issue and will finally prove to euro sceptics you can ask Europe for only the smallest help and their answer will always be now and forever more NO.

Vote Democracy
Vote Accountability
Vote For Sovereign Rule

Vote EU OUT

 

[Gwylan]

he also had the brass pig shagging balls to stand up in front of the British people and say the scraps he had now laid on the table for everyone to lap over are a good deal.

I hope the rest of the EU reject these plans.it sounds like they will and It will show up Cameron as having dropped a massive one on this issue and will finally prove to euro sceptics you can ask Europe for only the smallest help and their answer will always be now and forever more NO.

I agree with you that it's a pretty poor deal but it doesn't make any sense to say the rest of Europe will reject it. If it's only the symbolic gesture that you say it is, then the rest of the EU will lap it up.

And you're surely wrong to say that this will prove to Eurosceptics that the EU can't be trusted. We think that way anyway - that's why we sceptic

 

[pastafarian]

I agree with you that it's a pretty poor deal but it doesn't make any sense to say the rest of Europe will reject it. If it's only the symbolic gesture that you say it is, then the rest of the EU will lap it up.

And you're surely wrong to say that this will prove to Eurosceptics that the EU can't be trusted. We think that way anyway - that's why we sceptic

EU wont lap it up......it would involve treaty change.

treaty change triggers a referendum in France

 

[Gwylan]

EU wont lap it up......it would involve treaty change.

treaty change triggers a referendum in France

Well, if it's major enough to trigger a referendum then it's clearly not "scraps on the table" but a significant deal

(FWIW, I don't think it's a big deal and I think it will get passed by the other EU countries pretty easily)

 

[pastafarian]

Well, if it's major enough to trigger a referendum then it's clearly not "scraps on the table" but a significant deal

(FWIW, I don't think it's a big deal and I think it will get passed by the other EU countries pretty easily)

it really isnt a significant deal at any level

its scraps on the table when you consider the outers wish and want

return of sovereign powers to UK
return of judicial powers to UK

These are not even being considered

 

[Gwylan]

it really isnt a significant deal at any level

Which is what I said. And is why it doesn't require any treaty changes or referenda in other countries

 

[5ways]

Who cares? We are talking about the financial sector, the sector that has made everyone a lot poorer because of their own gambling over the years. Think it also points more to the fact of why this country needs to stop counting on the financial sector and start focusing on things like manufacturing again.

The UK financial sector pays gigantic quantities of tax (and gigantic fines), so it's made the country a lot richer rather than poorer.

I agree with the second point, so it is essential to maintain unfettered access to world's biggest single market and not put UK manufacturers at a disadvantage to their European rivals.

 

[fan since 63]

The UK financial sector pays gigantic quantities of tax (and gigantic fines), so it's made the country a lot richer rather than poorer.

I agree with the second point, so it is essential to maintain unfettered access to world's biggest single market and not put UK manufacturers at a disadvantage to their European rivals.

Surely the WORLD is the market place like it always has been why this obsession that we have to trade with Europe with all their petty rules and regulations.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

low quality troll or low quality poster, the net result is the same. You have little of worth to offer as your contributions to this thread demonstrate.

that's choice coming from some one the other side of the world
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

The EU - communist? Bloody hell, it's all about the furtherance of self interest and capitalism.

Trade, trade and more trade (plus of course the diminution of sovereign powers to the unelected Brussels bureaucracy). If you think that's got anything to do with communism, by all means join with the right side by voting out, but apart from that.........well, apart from that just vote out!

why have you got to be with the" right side" to vote out
regards
DR

 

[Soulman]

Surely the WORLD is the market place like it always has been why this obsession that we have to trade with Europe with all their petty rules and regulations.

Exactly.
UK exports of goods and services to NON-EU countries have grown at a faster rate than imports, driven largely by services exports. This has resulted in the UK running an overall trade surplus with NON-EU countries (value of exports exceeds imports) over the past three years, which reached £27.8 billion in 2014.

EU’s share of global GDP has fallen from 30% in 1993 to 24% in 2013. This is because growth in non-EU economies has outpaced growth of EU economies, mainly driven by strong growth in the BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India and China) economies.

EU’s share of global GDP has fallen from 30% in 1993 to 24% in 2013. This is because growth in NON-EU economies has OUTPACED growth of EU economies, mainly driven by strong growth in the BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India and China) economies.

strong economic growth in many developing economies OUTSIDE the EU has resulted in non-EU economies growing in importance to UK trade, with the proportion accounted for by the EU falling consistently since 1999
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/inter...union-to-uk-trade-and-investment-/sty-eu.html

 

[5ways]

Surely the WORLD is the market place like it always has been why this obsession that we have to trade with Europe with all their petty rules and regulations.

The world is not a free for all when it comes to trade. You have to open markets up and fight for access. Our ability to do this once upon a time was with gunships, now we have to use less coercive measures. States are often protectionist and want to protect their own markets and producers, you have to incentivise trade. When Europe is negotiating these terms it is extremely powerful - 500 million advanced consumers, the world's largest economic, the largest market. The UK benefits from this heft and gets us better terms. If we leave we not only have to renegotiate with the EU, we have to renegotiate our existing EU agreements with countries like South Korea. We will do this from a much weaker position and will get weaker terms, not to mention it takes months to hammer these agreements out. The short-term shock would be severe.


From the links below -
1. UK firms’ access to the Single Market goes beyond a standard free-trade agreement - the EU has eliminated tariff barriers and customs procedures within its borders, and has taken strides towards removing non-tariff barriers - such as different product regulations - by enforcing EU-wide competition law and coordinating product regulations.

2. The Single Market also underpins access to European supply chains. In 2009 $207bn of the UK’s total of $293bn of exports to the rest of the EU27 was used as inputs to industries, rather than being consumed directly; and the UK imported $161bn of intermediates from the EU27 in 2009. Imported intermediates are important even to domestically-focused sectors: the health & social care sector used $19bn of imported intermediates (principally of pharmaceuticals and other chemicals).

3. The EU is a springboard for trade with the rest of the world through its global clout: it accounted for 23% of the global economy in 2012 in dollar terms. Through 30 trade deals negotiated by the EU, including the Single Market itself, British firms have full access to a $24 trillion market. The recent deal with Canada and on-going discussions with Japan and the US could double this to $47 trillion - the UK would struggle to achieve the same quality of trade deals independently.

4. Investment flows across borders inside the EU have roughly doubled following the introduction of the Single Market. As the EU’s leading investment destination, the UK was a key beneficiary: the EU accounted for 47% of the UK’s stock of inward FDI at the end of 2011, with investments worth over $1.2 trillion.

5.Many who advocate leaving the EU, do so on the basis that the UK would be able to increase access to global markets. Switzerland – commonly cited as a country the UK should look emulate – has trade deals providing access to 38 countries, excluding the EU, the majority of which are negotiated through the European Free Trade Association.

Canada and Australia - both advanced economies signing trade deals independently - have access to significantly fewer countries, with 15 ratified deals each. The recently signed Trans-Pacific Partnership will increase this number once ratified but only marginally so.

http://news.cbi.org.uk/campaigns/ou...t-2-benefits-of-eu-membership-outweigh-costs/

https://social.shorthand.com/CBItweets/nynYttepbjc/10-facts-about-eu-trade-deals

 

[5ways]

Exactly.
UK exports of goods and services to NON-EU countries have grown at a faster rate than imports, driven largely by services exports. This has resulted in the UK running an overall trade surplus with NON-EU countries (value of exports exceeds imports) over the past three years, which reached £27.8 billion in 2014.

EU’s share of global GDP has fallen from 30% in 1993 to 24% in 2013. This is because growth in non-EU economies has outpaced growth of EU economies, mainly driven by strong growth in the BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India and China) economies.

EU’s share of global GDP has fallen from 30% in 1993 to 24% in 2013. This is because growth in NON-EU economies has OUTPACED growth of EU economies, mainly driven by strong growth in the BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India and China) economies.

strong economic growth in many developing economies OUTSIDE the EU has resulted in non-EU economies growing in importance to UK trade, with the proportion accounted for by the EU falling consistently since 1999
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/inter...union-to-uk-trade-and-investment-/sty-eu.html

While the percentage share of the EU as global GDP has declined, so has the UK's. What you're highlighting is that it is a new world where the older European powers will cede economic standings to countries with huge demographic advantages. The UK of 65 odd million will not always have a greater share of global GDP than Brazil, with 200 million. This is another reason that we have to fight for our place in the world and take advantage of our mutual strengths. We are stronger if we work together in a 21st century that will look very different to the 20th.

 

[beorhthelm]

... When Europe is negotiating these terms it is extremely powerful - 500 million advanced consumers, the world's largest economic, the largest market. The UK benefits from this heft and gets us better terms. If we leave we not only have to renegotiate with the EU, we have to renegotiate our existing EU agreements with countries like South Korea. We will do this from a much weaker position and will get weaker terms, not to mention it takes months to hammer these agreements out.

it simply isnt certain that we'd be in a weaker position, we may be in a strong position not having to deal with an agreement that must incorporate the vested interests of 28 other nations. thats why it takes months/years, to hammer out the deals because you have to address the concerns of Spanish olive growers, French cheese makers etc alongside our interests and those of the other party. only yesturday i read that Tate& Lyle are anti EU because they are about to lift sugar beet quotas while retaining sugar cane imports. so their sugar acne refinement business suffers for the sake of other's (French?) sugar beet operations.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

The world is not a free for all when it comes to trade. You have to open markets up and fight for access. Our ability to do this once upon a time was with gunships, now we have to use less coercive measures. States are often protectionist and want to protect their own markets and producers, you have to incentivise trade. When Europe is negotiating these terms it is extremely powerful - 500 million advanced consumers, the world's largest economic, the largest market. The UK benefits from this heft and gets us better terms. If we leave we not only have to renegotiate with the EU, we have to renegotiate our existing EU agreements with countries like South Korea. We will do this from a much weaker position and will get weaker terms, not to mention it takes months to hammer these agreements out. The short-term shock would be severe.

We already covered this earlier in this thread. I thought the data showed our trade was worse in many cases after all these fabulous EU trade agreements and independent nations had better outcomes.