English .....second language?

[glasfryn]

living in Wales I have obviously have picked this up, it seems they (the welsh) want Welsh to be on an equal footing to English in schools ( there are some totally Welsh speaking schools already) now forgive me for thinking that Wales is still in the UK and that English is still the national language of the UK,so why is this happening.
The Welsh are already saying that their education system is lagging behind others and IMHO this is because they spend so much time learning Welsh instead of using that time to study other subjects which would be of more use to them. Especially as there is little work in Wales and a lot of school leavers will be moving to pastures anew to find work and to be honest what good is Welsh going to do them(I notice that in English schools they are teaching Spanish and Chinese which surely would be of an advantage in commerce).

Not for me to say but would'nt it be better to have Welsh as non-compulsory subject rather than ramming it down the throats of these kids when most instantly forget it when they have left school to move on, point in case one of my English friends up here have a 15 year old son who the school tried to force into learning Welsh,he refused and got so many detentions they eventually gave up and he used the time to study other subjects .

the upshot was that he passed his GCSE's with straight "A's" which was not accomplished by his class mates not definite proof but nevertheless a pointer.

end of rant
keep the UK and the UK citizens speaking English

 

[Simster]

The best way to get Welsh people speaking Welsh is to make most of their radio & TV stations broadcast mostly in Welsh. Immersing yourself in a language in popular culture has always been the best way to get results - it's why the rest of Northern Europe speak English so well. English is all over the place in popular culture -> people learn bits of English -> people want to learn more English. If French, German or Spanish was anything like as prominent in popular culture, it wouldn't be long before you found half the UK speaking these languages...

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

living in Wales I have obviously have picked this up, it seems they (the welsh) want Welsh to be on an equal footing to English in schools ( there are some totally Welsh speaking schools already) now forgive me for thinking that Wales is still in the UK and that English is still the national language of the UK,so why is this happening.

Think it's a bit INSULAR, and that the kids won't necessarily thank them for it in later life. Agree its important to keep a language alive, for reasons of culture and national identity, but the world's getting smaller, and Welsh or say, Gaelic in the Highlands and Islands of Scotland or, dunno, Croatian, are pretty useless beyond their respective national borders. A lot of Aussie kids learn Japanese as a second language, which seems to me a more sensible kind of option.

 

[London Calling]

cORNISH IS NOW dead language

 

[Stoo82]

I can understand why the Welsh Government would want to keep thier language. But it does seem to be a bit of a waste of time on an international level.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I can understand why the Welsh Government would want to keep thier language. But it does seem to be a bit of a waste of time on an international level.

A bit like their football really

 

[Stoo82]

A bit like their football really

 

[sten_super]

living in Wales I have obviously have picked this up, it seems they (the welsh) want Welsh to be on an equal footing to English in schools ( there are some totally Welsh speaking schools already) now forgive me for thinking that Wales is still in the UK and that English is still the national language of the UK,so why is this happening.
The Welsh are already saying that their education system is lagging behind others and IMHO this is because they spend so much time learning Welsh instead of using that time to study other subjects which would be of more use to them. Especially as there is little work in Wales and a lot of school leavers will be moving to pastures anew to find work and to be honest what good is Welsh going to do them(I notice that in English schools they are teaching Spanish and Chinese which surely would be of an advantage in commerce).

Not for me to say but would'nt it be better to have Welsh as non-compulsory subject rather than ramming it down the throats of these kids when most instantly forget it when they have left school to move on, point in case one of my English friends up here have a 15 year old son who the school tried to force into learning Welsh,he refused and got so many detentions they eventually gave up and he used the time to study other subjects .

the upshot was that he passed his GCSE's with straight "A's" which was not accomplished by his class mates not definite proof but nevertheless a pointer.

end of rant
keep the UK and the UK citizens speaking English

Yes, it seems somewhat silly the weight that they place on the Welsh language. The only people that are likely to use it outside of school are those whose parents already speak it anyway; and in that case they are likely to already be bilingual.

When I was at university I had some friends at Aberystwyth. Apparently they had a couple of 'student strikes' where (no doubt a small minority of) the students were demanding that ALL lectures and notes should be made available in Welsh as well as English. It arose because I think one person had turned up at the University unable to speak English.

The best way to get Welsh people speaking Welsh is to make most of their radio & TV stations broadcast mostly in Welsh. Immersing yourself in a language in popular culture has always been the best way to get results - it's why the rest of Northern Europe speak English so well. English is all over the place in popular culture -> people learn bits of English -> people want to learn more English. If French, German or Spanish was anything like as prominent in popular culture, it wouldn't be long before you found half the UK speaking these languages...

S4C is mostly in Welsh (the exceptions being the Channel 4 shows that they broadcast). However the popular shows are generally shown with English subtitles anyway (like the Sunday omnibus of Pobol y Cwm).

 

[NMH]

living in Wales I have obviously have picked this up, it seems they (the welsh) want Welsh to be on an equal footing to English in schools ( there are some totally Welsh speaking schools already) now forgive me for thinking that Wales is still in the UK and that English is still the national language of the UK,so why is this happening.
The Welsh are already saying that their education system is lagging behind others and IMHO this is because they spend so much time learning Welsh instead of using that time to study other subjects which would be of more use to them. Especially as there is little work in Wales and a lot of school leavers will be moving to pastures anew to find work and to be honest what good is Welsh going to do them(I notice that in English schools they are teaching Spanish and Chinese which surely would be of an advantage in commerce).

Not for me to say but would'nt it be better to have Welsh as non-compulsory subject rather than ramming it down the throats of these kids when most instantly forget it when they have left school to move on, point in case one of my English friends up here have a 15 year old son who the school tried to force into learning Welsh,he refused and got so many detentions they eventually gave up and he used the time to study other subjects .

the upshot was that he passed his GCSE's with straight "A's" which was not accomplished by his class mates not definite proof but nevertheless a pointer.

end of rant
keep the UK and the UK citizens speaking English

I bet he didn't get an 'A' in Welsh.

It is only another language, and tbh I wasted some amount of time being taught French when I didn't want to - but some chose to stay with it and can probably order the right things on a French menu while I'd end up with something I don't want to eat.

 

[NMH]

The best way to get Welsh people speaking Welsh is to make most of their radio & TV stations broadcast mostly in Welsh. Immersing yourself in a language in popular culture has always been the best way to get results - it's why the rest of Northern Europe speak English so well. English is all over the place in popular culture -> people learn bits of English -> people want to learn more English. If French, German or Spanish was anything like as prominent in popular culture, it wouldn't be long before you found half the UK speaking these languages...

Perhaps to some small extent. Living close to Mexico for many years, I learned a tiny amount of their version of Spanish - mostly from interacting with my employees.
For Welsh to branch out further though, would take a lot! I think that chance is already way too far eclipsed by centuries of language evolution.
Good for them for preserving a language that's threatened with extinction, but the wider use for their kids once they've learned it, is difficult to visualize.

 

[bhafc99]

Chinese would be a hell of a lot more useful.

 

[NMH]

There are tiny pockets of English who retain an olde way of gibberish too.

They use expressions such as "b'ain't" and responses like "happen". These kinds of ways rise and fall for whichever locality and peer group, though are getting to be smaller pockets, and mostly only in children before they travel farther and wider.

Remembering that not so long ago, people did only mix within a village area, on the whole. 120 years ago a trip to Brighton from Worthing would have been quite an effort and required some planning and forethought. Thus, villager colloquialisms and expressions would have easier been retained within the area that spawned them.
An example could be on the 'net, or right here on NSC, where some ways to express are exclusive.

Without starting a binfest, I'd say some of you spackers have maintained your own ways of NSC-speak.

Yes, yes you have.

(Lizards and slices have split to form another faction, of course)

 

[captainmorganrum]

keep the UK and the UK citizens speaking English

: sigh:
Come off it Glasfryn, in which part of Wales are people denying anyone the right to speak english then?
So citizens of Spanish who speak Galician, Catalan, Basque should all allow their language to die out then?

 

[BensGrandad]

I read once that Mongolian Chinese is the widest spoken first language, probably due to the numbers of people there, and English was the widest spoken 2nd language world wide.

 

[sten_super]

I read once that Mongolian Chinese is the widest spoken first language, probably due to the numbers of people there, and English was the widest spoken 2nd language world wide.

I think it depends upon the definition of 'widest'. Mongolian Chinese is the first language spoken by the largest number of people, as you due to the size of China. If you consider 'widest' in terms of number of countries in which it is spoken, it's Spanish.

I would guess that you are right about English being the widest spoken 2nd language; with the prevalence of US TV shows, and it is also the language of academia (in my experience).

 

[Cochyn]

FYI, Welsh was spoken hundreds and hundreds of years before the English language was invented.

So we were here first! Maybe the English should think about adopting THEIR own language eh?

 

[Mackenzie]

living in Wales I have obviously have picked this up, it seems they (the welsh) want Welsh to be on an equal footing to English in schools ( there are some totally Welsh speaking schools already) now forgive me for thinking that Wales is still in the UK and that English is still the national language of the UK,so why is this happening.
The Welsh are already saying that their education system is lagging behind others and IMHO this is because they spend so much time learning Welsh instead of using that time to study other subjects which would be of more use to them. Especially as there is little work in Wales and a lot of school leavers will be moving to pastures anew to find work and to be honest what good is Welsh going to do them(I notice that in English schools they are teaching Spanish and Chinese which surely would be of an advantage in commerce).

Not for me to say but would'nt it be better to have Welsh as non-compulsory subject rather than ramming it down the throats of these kids when most instantly forget it when they have left school to move on, point in case one of my English friends up here have a 15 year old son who the school tried to force into learning Welsh,he refused and got so many detentions they eventually gave up and he used the time to study other subjects .

the upshot was that he passed his GCSE's with straight "A's" which was not accomplished by his class mates not definite proof but nevertheless a pointer.

end of rant
keep the UK and the UK citizens speaking English

My seven year old daughter learns Welsh at school and really enjoys it. She speaks it by learning Welsh songs ('I can sing a rainbow' for example, so she now knows her colours in Welsh), it is fantastic language to listen to, and I love the fact that she is able to do it.

I understand that if you learn a language when you are young it enables you to learn other languages more easily, which will be good when she is 'forced' to learn French in high school (as it is part of the national curriculum).

To qualify for many jobs in Wales you need to be able to demonstrate some Welsh language. A friend of mine from Chester applied for a job looking after the police horses in Wrexham, a job she could have done standing on her head, but didn't get through the second interview because of her lack of Welsh language.

I'm as English as they come, but I can't see any problem with Welsh being taught and spoken in Welsh schools. If we lived in Spain I'd expect my child to be learning Spanish at school.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

The Welsh langauge is more British than the West Germanic language that is English.

So if you wish to be a true Brit, speak welsh.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

120 years ago a trip to Brighton from Worthing would have been quite an effort and required some planning and forethought.

It still does if you use public transport.

 

[Acker79]

I can see where some of them are coming from. Imagine if the european union evolves into the united states of europe and we're all forced to learn French as our primary language.

Would you be happy? Would you honestly take the attitude 'well, we're all citizens of the US of E, we should speak French. Forget this English nonsense...'?