English National Alliance to march on Brighton

[Milton Keynes Seagull]

And it was a perverted nationalistic "patriotism" that fueled the rise of the nazis in the 1930s.

Don't let the likes of the English National Alliance get away with a similar distortion of the language.

Exactly the point. The nazis version of patriotism and nationalism was perverted and indeed rather than respecting the rights of individual nation states trampled all over them. That is why I would have supported the Czech patriots against the Nazis trying to impose their imperialistic and repugnant racism on that fine little country.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Exactly the point. The nazis version of patriotism and nationalism was perverted and indeed rather than respecting the rights of individual nation states trampled all over them. That is why I would have supported the Czech patriots against the Nazis trying to impose their imperialistic and repugnant racism on that fine little country.

Excellent.

And I bet there isn't a single member of the ENA who would welcome the grandchild of a Czech patriot into their home. Or even their street.

 

[daveinprague]

Yes, ive been to St Cyril a couple of times with visitors, and recently my mother, when she came....
I dont see the connection though? Between Free Czech soldiers killing Heydrich to symbolise Czech resistance against the occupation by a dictatorial regime and people like the EDL etc.
And, whilst they were very brave men their actions did result in the deaths of up to 8000 civilians and the destruction of Lidice, and another place whose name escapes me at the moment.
The Czech nationlists didnt exactly overthrow the Germans. The uprising reached stalemate, and only after the Ukrainians (Vlasovs Army) who had fought for the fascists previously, changed sides and brought heavy armour into the equation was a negotiated withdrawal by the Germans made possible. The big news here at the moment is the discovery of mass graves of German civilians shot by Czech patriots in 1945.
If you ask me, patriotism and nationalism, brings the worst out in people, and history supports that.

 

[Milton Keynes Seagull]

Excellent.

And I bet there isn't a single member of the ENA who would welcome the grandchild of a Czech patriot into their home.

Speculation, unless you have personally canvassed every single member of this organization, of whom I suspect like me you know very little about.

 

[Milton Keynes Seagull]

Yes, ive been to St Cyril a couple of times with visitors, and recently my mother, when she came....
I dont see the connection though? Between Free Czech soldiers killing Heydrich to symbolise Czech resistance against the occupation by a dictatorial regime and people like the EDL etc.
And, whilst they were very brave men their actions did result in the deaths of up to 8000 civilians and the destruction of Lidice, and another place whose name escapes me at the moment.

Terezin or more commonly referred to as Theriesienstadt concentration camp? Or the other smaller village where the SS murdered the inhabitants. Regarding the Church of SS Cyril & Methodius, I found it a very moving experience especially where the beleagured partisans desperately tried to tunnel their way out. My wife and I were fortunate enough to be allowed into the actual church, normally only open to worshippers (unless the policy has changed).

I am trying to get through to you and others that I am talking about patriotism in general, the committal of atrocities by people calling themselves patriotic does not condemn patriotism at all. Interesting story about the end of the war, as of course a million Germans were forcibly driven out of the Sudentenland and like many reprisals almost exclusively carried by the communists, including the shooting of Vlasov and his troops by the NKVD.

 

[daveinprague]

I know what youre saying, I just dont recognise a repackaged NF/BNP as patriots, and dont recognise the England they want England to be. The story of the mass graves here is not about the communists though. There was lots of revenge killings as its beginning to be revealed. Understandable after the circumstances, but these acts were carried out under the name of patriotism. Which is where the danger lies isnt it ..in the wordage.

 

[Milton Keynes Seagull]

I know what youre saying, I just dont recognise a repackaged NF/BNP as patriots, and dont recognise the England they want England to be. The story of the mass graves here is not about the communists though. There was lots of revenge killings as its beginning to be revealed. Understandable after the circumstances, but these acts were carried out under the name of patriotism. Which is where the danger lies isnt it ..in the wordage.

I agree, it is when the love of country and people descends into hatred of others that it becomes perverted and I would argue cease to be patriotism. Just like most of us here would call ourselves democrats but would not subscribe the the US view that bombing the hell out of the muslim world and condoning atrocities against Palestinians constitutes "fighting for freedom and democracy".

I have to go out now, I do envy you Dave living in that fine city. I may be an English patriot but can think of nothing better than sitting in one of those little bars in the square by the astronomical clock sipping Pilsner Urquell.

Here's to three points at Hillsborough today.

 

[Scampi]

Oh you are an angry and misguided child, give 'my mates' of the ENL a wave from me.

I'm not angry, just fed up with the likes of you trying to paint moderate views as some extreme left conspiracy.

 

[thejackal]

From their Facebook page:-

"We are heading for Brighton and marching in defence of our right to be English

We are going on Bank Holiday Monday under an English National Alliance banner with all activist groups and political parties that are non racist welcome to join us to protest against the militant students and attacks on industry in the region by Palestinian militants and socialist extremists to support the English people of the region against the constant anti English activities in the area.

Anti English activities and militant students need to know their place and this march is to state we want the authorities to deal with them firmly. No more attacks on English patriots, celebrating events, no more attack on English Companies and no more support of Palestinian terrorists through the Universities

The march through the City will end up in a park with a rally and prominent person making speeches".


It seems odd to target Brighton students on an August Bank Holiday Monday.

And since when has EDO (ITT Corporation) been an "English company"?

Palestinian Militants?!?! Are these morons for real?

 

[IKDRF]

It was patriotism and indeed nationalist sentiments that beat the Nazis in 1945 and overthrew the communists in 1989.

I'm sorry this is where I come in. The nazis were defeated simply because a Europe with their authority was unthinkable. patriotism is the love of ones own country-there is nothing wrong with that. Nationalism is the hatred of all others.
Think of this and you will understand the opposition of so many to these people. I would have fought for this country (and indeed de-facto for those under occupation) in the war-but I am certainly not a nationalist.

 

[cunning fergus]

Palestinian Militants?!?! Are these morons for real?

Well, just taking a wild stab in the dark do you think it is a reference to the Smash EDO demonstrations? Didn't the Smash EDO march start from the University of Sussex last time?

The recent court case which aquitted 8 individuals who admitted their part in the destruction of EDO property had (as I understand it) were not students from Sussex or Brighton University.

In fact most were from Bristol and the group was aged between 30 and 53. However Sussex Uni Student Union and associated groups were all involved in applications for legal aid and raising money for the group when it was initially refused.

On the Smash EDO websites they are avowed supporters of the Palestinian cause and as we have seen they have been pretty militant in their 'peaceful' demonstrations.

This August march thingy maybe misguided but then again they are not setting out to destroy the livelihoods of Brightonians. I would reserve judgement on who the morons are till October.

 

[cunning fergus]

I'm sorry this is where I come in. The nazis were defeated simply because a Europe with their authority was unthinkable. patriotism is the love of ones own country-there is nothing wrong with that. Nationalism is the hatred of all others.
Think of this and you will understand the opposition of so many to these people. I would have fought for this country (and indeed de-facto for those under occupation) in the war-but I am certainly not a nationalist.

Don't apologise; with around 40 million dead in the European theatre I would suggest the defeat of Germany and its allies was anything but simple, but there you are.

Nationalism is not automatically hatred of others either........I am not aware that the Scottish Nationalists have a 'hatred' of others even the English.

No, what they want is the ability to determine the future of Scotland independently and are resolved to do so by democratic means. I take it you have no problem with that?

Given the very real threat of German invasion in 1940 I would further argue that many fought to ensure Britain was free to determine its own future (i.e. not live under the jackboot of tyranny)

I wonder what if those brave veterans understood that victory in 1945 would still have resulted in laws being made by unelected Europeans and surrendering control of our borders etc.

Given the recent European results I think you will understand the opposition of many to this situation, they were after all voting as nationalists.

 

[Castello]

I would say that patriotism is pride in your country. Nationalism is the belief in the supremacy of your country over others.

I have no problem with English/British people being proud of their country.

I think that English Nationalism has brought a lot of shame to the people of this country, particularly abroad. As someone of Jewish origin even the words send a shudder through me. Think of how this would make someone who wasnt born in this country feel seeing a horde of english nationalists marauding down the street, and still tell me they should be ignored. Be glad you have that luxury.

 

[The Spanish]

lets face it, it really is doughnut on doughnut.

you celebrate Englishness by being English and relating to its history.

I see plenty of people who deliberately distort English history, by claiming that hugenot weavers turning up is somehow proof that England has been in a constant state of ethnic flux akin to the unprecedented (well since the slow development of England itself) migration we have seen post war. That to me is not being English, that is trying to normalise a social revolution you for some reason think is a necessary thing. A lot of people who think like that will be trying to break up the EDL march.

The funniest thing is its in Brighton, a town as white as marleys ghost. clueless studenty idiots sticking up for their imaginary ethnic minority friends versus some lads who dont live amongst the people they dont like anyway.

 

[bhaexpress]

I'm not angry, just fed up with the likes of you trying to paint moderate views as some extreme left conspiracy.

Yes and I am fed up with the 'commie, pinko, fags' like you who accuse people of being a Nazi just because they contradict your biased and juvenile views. As I'm half Jewish I'm hardly likely to be what you think I am. Still, to quote yourself, 'shows what you know'.

If ignorance is bliss you must be a very happy person.

 

[bhaexpress]

I was watching something on TV recently that made me think about the sheer stupidity of so much of the notion of 'Political Correction'. SO many countries now won't use the word 'Christmas' and seem almost ashamed to say the word in case it offends somebody who believes in some other deity.

The people who might be upset (which in fact they very rarely are) come from countries where their own religion is observed and not something they are embarrassed about. So for anybody who might be may I take this opportunity to wish those who care 'Happy Ramadan' and Merry Passover'.

 

[Milton Keynes Seagull]

I'm sorry this is where I come in. The nazis were defeated simply because a Europe with their authority was unthinkable. patriotism is the love of ones own country-there is nothing wrong with that. Nationalism is the hatred of all others.
Think of this and you will understand the opposition of so many to these people. I would have fought for this country (and indeed de-facto for those under occupation) in the war-but I am certainly not a nationalist.

Nationalism in its true sense is not about notions of supremacy or hatred of other peoples. It is about preserving the unique diversity of people, cultures, fauna and flora and not allow them to be lost or destroyed especially by the relentless march of globalism that cares nothing for anyone wherever they live, but sees them all as mere consumers. We can all exist in an atmosphere of mutual respect, admiration and a true celebration and understanding of diversity, a somewhat Utopian belief but a noble goal in my humble opinion. No one people is "better" or "superior" to any other.

 

[cunning fergus]

I would say that patriotism is pride in your country. Nationalism is the belief in the supremacy of your country over others.

I have no problem with English/British people being proud of their country.

I think that English Nationalism has brought a lot of shame to the people of this country, particularly abroad. As someone of Jewish origin even the words send a shudder through me. Think of how this would make someone who wasnt born in this country feel seeing a horde of english nationalists marauding down the street, and still tell me they should be ignored. Be glad you have that luxury.

I think you are wrong. If I choose to buy British apples I do not buy them because I think they are better than French apples, I just want to support British apple farmers. This is out of a sense of national solidarity which is itself an essential element of nationalism. I am not obsessed with buying British, but its a meaningful gesture (not to mention enviromentally friendly) that I can make.

That English nationalism is on the agenda these days is merely a symptom of the times we live in and no doubt there are a myriad of different reasons why these Herberts want to walk down a Brighton street to assert their sense of identity and cause.

Tesco and M&S will not board up their windows and people of different hues will not be set upon by a racist mob out of control. You may not like what they have to say or what they represent but there's diversity for you.

As for how foreigners would view it why would they feel threatened? If they were here having fled a regimes like Burma or North Korea they would probably feel assured that the country is mature enough to allow people to express themseleves freely. If on holiday they will take a few snaps and go home talking about the eccentric English.

 

[Scampi]

Yes and I am fed up with the 'commie, pinko, fags' like you who accuse people of being a Nazi just because they contradict your biased and juvenile views. As I'm half Jewish I'm hardly likely to be what you think I am. Still, to quote yourself, 'shows what you know'.

If ignorance is bliss you must be a very happy person.

And there you go again. Calling me a commie pinko fag. Why is it you feel the need to defend fascists? Why is it you try to tar anybody who opposes them as some sort of left wing extremist.

 

[Milton Keynes Seagull]

And there you go again. Calling me a commie pinko fag. Why is it you feel the need to defend fascists? Why is it you try to tar anybody who opposes them as some sort of left wing extremist.

If he does, it is because you tar all patriots and nationalists as fascists. For stereotyping you are awarded an A*.