[Politics] Dominic Cummings v H&SC and S&T select committees *Official Match Thread*

[vegster]

Cummins doesn't have any reason to lie outright in these interviews, especially if he can be exposed as lying now or at any time later. He has to tell what was going on (albeit with a huge chip on his shoulder and a vast revenge agenda to get Johnson for sacking him), because if his statements are shown not to be true, his credibility has gone for good. He might be twisting the facts to suit his version, but I can't see him telling outright porkies in full public view. Itf he is, it would be easy to trash him, but the government hasn't done that. They have put out various vacuous statements, a bit like the dross they come up with at Prime Minister's Questions, but never actually stated that Cummins has made everything up.

I wouldn't trust either Johnson or Cummins further than I could throw them, but I don't think Cummins would say this stuff unless he can back it up, and/or knows that Johnson can't rubbish it because it is a reasonably accurate version of what took place at the time.

For those who doubt his statements as evidence, what other evidence do you want? This will only ever be "he said this... I said that..." testimony. Unless you were there with a recording device, or have access to the screen shots (and you could argue that even they might be faked).

Ultimately it boils down to personal judgement, and whatever inherent prejudices people have.

Back to the Bear Pit?

I think that when you pool the public knowledge of Johnson's previous form I think that Cummings's recollections are probably pretty accurate. We were warned many times by ex employers, ex girlfriends and ex colleagues of Johnson at different times of how bad he was, even Gove threw him under the bus as he realised what a liability he was. Johnson's charge sheet is very very long and the shopping trolley with the wobbly wheel is a pretty accurate analogy for his "careering ".

I think Cummings has plenty of WhatsApp records, e-mails and texts and I'm pretty sure that some of the revelations can and have been supported by witnesses. Strangely though, the drip drip drip of stories seems to toughen Johnson up,, he has no shame so won't resign and seems quite content to let many accusations stick.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I wonder what the resident Brexiter delusionists think about his comment that those who think Brexit was a good idea must have a screw loose?

He's mugged you right off

The actual quote:

“I think anyone who says they’re sure about questions like that [Brexit] has got a screw loose, whether you’re on the remain side or our side. I think one of the reasons why we won is precisely, in Vote Leave we didn’t think that we’re definitely right and Remainers are all idiots or traitors or anything else… we never thought like that then and still don’t and I don’t know.’


I’m not sure what you get out of distorting the truth. It doesn’t add to the debate and just makes you come across as more similar to Dominic Cummings than you realise.

 

[Motogull]

Cummings is a great communicator. I'll give him credit for that.

I wish we had a PM with a similar quality. As soon as that silly kunnt opens his mouth, I get all:

 

[clapham_gull]

I agree with Cummings on a number of things regarding the state of British politics. He has long been critical of particularly the Conservative party of allowing MPs to rise to the top who are frankly useless.

He is also in my opinion completely bat shit mental on a number of other subjects. He is just the sort of person you would want to challenge the orthodoxy, turns things over, upset people (not always bad) , a classic disrupter.

Every organisation needs them (many don't have them) but you need others to challenge their views too. The toxic situation that developed was that this complete firebrand was surrounded by uselessness that was unable to control him, so he ended up effectively controlling them.

Every PM has had them (he's hardly unique), but they are usually just another tool in the toolbox. As we have a PM who is clearly not fit for public office (in any office he has held he has had to employ people to do the thinking), it was always going to end in tears.

 

[A1X]

Watched the cricket but did he really say he and others were going to try and remove Johnson a few weeks after the election? If so, who the **** does he think he is? I have no time for Johnson but he won a fair election, they don’t get to turn round as an unelected cabal a few weeks later and say “sorry everyone, we know better than you and want someone else in charge”.

 

[NooBHA]

I don't think he told us anything we didn't know already.

Everyone on here said years ago he was pulling Johnson's strings. And to be honest. Even Johnson's own supporters know that he is as daft as a brush or as thick as shiite whatever you want to apply. They only like him coz he doesn't come across as a Politician. He come across as stupid and that makes stupid people feel like they are on the same wavelength as him.

I have given up trying to think I could change people's mind about Boris Johnson - Its like the ones who love Trump - They love them simply because they are daft and tomorrow his popularity will soar because people will come out and say it's a ''witch hunt'' the exact same way Trump does.

He has this massive majority in Parlaiment - Its the British people who are daft. They are happy to be misled because they just think. I would rather be misled than do the thinking for myself.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

The actual quote:

“I think anyone who says they’re sure about questions like that [Brexit] has got a screw loose, whether you’re on the remain side or our side. I think one of the reasons why we won is precisely, in Vote Leave we didn’t think that we’re definitely right and Remainers are all idiots or traitors or anything else… we never thought like that then and still don’t and I don’t know.’


I’m not sure what you get out of distorting the truth. It doesn’t add to the debate and just makes you come across as more similar to Dominic Cummings than you realise.

History will decide, eventually. But not yet.

"I am seeking to rescue the poor stockinger, the*Luddite*cropper, the "obsolete" hand-loom weaver, the "utopian" artisan, and even the deluded follower of*Joanna Southcott, from the enormous condescension of posterity." E P Thompson

I find Cummings version strangely compelling. Not sure why.

 

[clapham_gull]

If so, who the **** does he think he is? .

He's Dominic Cummings and Johnson knows exactly who he was employing. That was the deal.

He was effectively brought into the run the show. Boris did exactly the same as London Mayor.

We can like Cummings or not, but that isn't the point. Cummings was always hell bent on turning Government and the civil service upside down.

Johnson needed Cummings (it's a parallel to London Mayor) because he has "ideas". Unfortunately as a politician (and quite uniquely within a sea of other dross) Johnson is completely devoid of them beyond spend as much money as he can on vanity projects.

Most worrying is that he doesn't appear to have a "gut feeling" about anything and flip flops all the time. This is why Cummings arrows miss the target. Johnson changes his mind, unfortunately not based on evidence but personal survival. Somebody else can easily point to a meeting where Johnson said something different.

I'm not convinced he ever really believed in Brexit and post referendum he was (allegedly) sounding out foreign ambassadors about staying in the Common Market.

Whatever political persuasion you are (it really doesn't matter), I'm of the firm belief that Johnson is the worst PM of my lifetime with equally the worst cabinet. It's just history that has lead us to need some politicians of competence (they don't need to be stars) with an equally effective opposition in these difficult times. Unfortunately we have neither.

 

[Pevenseagull]

When narcissist collide.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Dominic Cummings v H&SC and S&T select committees *Official Match Thread*

I'm not convinced he ever really believed in Brexit and post referendum he was (allegedly) sounding out foreign ambassadors about staying in the Common Market.

Quite astonishing that Corbyn was the real Brexiteer in all of this but as a believer in democracy, he had to follow the policies his party had voted for.

No such restraint for Mr Johnson who would tell the electorate that 2+2=5 if it meant he got into power. If a Sun survey told him that the majority of their readership wanted to rejoin the EU, we’d be back in there quicker than you could say Princess Nut Nut gnaws Boris’ knobbly nuts and knob for nice nutritious nit bits.

 

[clapham_gull]

Quite astonishing that Corbyn was the real Brexiteer

Something that is conveniently forgotten by his supporters. Politicians and the electorate went quite bonkers.

Mainly pro-European younger voters aligning with a leader of the Labour party who has spent his while career talking down the EU.

Older (and financially prudent) Eurosceptic voters aligning with a leader of The Conservative Party who fundamentally agrees (if he has beliefs) in the concept of Freedom of Movement and will happily spunk out the Credit Card on any unwanted mega billion project he woke up that morning wanting.

Quite easy to see how the intelligent but megalomaniac Cummings moved in.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

So what do you get from this -
1. Boris is a complete idiot who consistently engages his mouth before his brain, well most people know that.
2. Cummings is a vengeful arrogant bellend, most people knew that.
3. Both men generally cannot be trusted to tell the truth or admit to their mistakes, most people knew that.
4. This country would be a better place without both Johnson and Cummings, most people know that.

So nothing new or major, it's all a bit like watch a lover's tiff on Big Brother really.

It is worthwhile pointing this out to focus minds before the next GE.

Starmer may have a funny voice, but he is still a political shovel.

Given the choice between shit and a shovel it is useful to remind people who the shit is

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Something that is conveniently forgotten by his supporters. Politicians and the electorate went quite bonkers.

Mainly pro-European younger voters aligning with a leader of the Labour party who has spent his while career talking down the EU.

Older (and financially prudent) Eurosceptic voters aligning with a leader of The Conservative Party who fundamentally agrees (if he has beliefs) in the concept of Freedom of Movement and will happily spunk out the Credit Card on any unwanted mega billion project he woke up that morning wanting.

Quite easy to see how the intelligent but megalomaniac Cummings moved in.

The one good thing in among all that is Corbyn is gone and Starmer is the replacement. As a rejoined LP member I find Starmer a bit dull, but he's a oik made good (like me) and we dullards should stand firm against the nutweasels and advisors who think they have the divine right of kings having presumably thought they had been touched by the hand of god while ******* over a photograph of themself.

 

[drew]

The one good thing in among all that is Corbyn is gone and Starmer is the replacement. As a rejoined LP member I find Starmer a bit dull, but he's a oik made good (like me) and we dullards should stand firm against the nutweasels and advisors who think they have the divine right of kings having presumably thought they had been touched by the hand of god while ******* over a photograph of themself.

A leader like Starmer is what this country needs but unfortunately the press don't like him because he doesn't generate juicy stories.

 

[nicko31]

Cummings last night “no one on earth knows if leaving the EU was a good idea".

That's reassuring...

 

[dejavuatbtn]

The one good thing in among all that is Corbyn is gone and Starmer is the replacement. As a rejoined LP member I find Starmer a bit dull, but he's a oik made good (like me) and we dullards should stand firm against the nutweasels and advisors who think they have the divine right of kings having presumably thought they had been touched by the hand of god while ******* over a photograph of themself.

Nicely put.

 

[WATFORD zero]

So,

With an unimplementable Northern Ireland protocol and no alternative in sight,
No equivalence or passporting for our Financial Services,
No import controls leaving our borders open to smugglers and tax cheats,
Exporters who have managed to survive the initial wave now moving in large numbers to the EU,
Our Agriculture industry under threat from the compromises we are desperately making to try and get some minor trade deals
A destroyed fishing industry, countless other industries having to take on enormous extra costs and overheads,
The Government spending 3 times as much on it's own departments' Brexit Administration as it's putting into it's flagship 'levelling up' policy,

Dom has now decided that no-one can tell whether Brexit is Good or Bad

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Cummings last night “no one on earth knows if leaving the EU was a good idea".

That's reassuring...

So,

With an unimplementable Northern Ireland protocol and no alternative in sight,
No equivalence or passporting for our Financial Services,
No import controls leaving our borders open to smugglers and tax cheats,
Exporters who have managed to survive the initial wave now moving in large numbers to the EU,
Our Agriculture industry under threat from the compromises we are desperately making to try and get some minor trade deals
A destroyed fishing industry, countless other industries having to take on enormous extra costs and overheads,
The Government spending 3 times as much on it's own departments' Brexit Administration as it's putting into it's flagship 'levelling up' policy,

Dom has now decided that no-one can tell whether Brexit is Good or Bad

Oh dear, not you two as well. Read the whole quote. He doesn’t think anyone could be certain, whether they be on the Leave or Remain side. He is correct. It applies to most things in life and politics. Anyway, here is the actual quote I posted earlier on the thread;

“I think anyone who says they’re sure about questions like that [Brexit] has got a screw loose, whether you’re on the remain side or our side. I think one of the reasons why we won is precisely, in Vote Leave we didn’t think that we’re definitely right and Remainers are all idiots or traitors or anything else… we never thought like that then and still don’t and I don’t know.’

‘

 

[amexer]

I did not listen to Cummings yesterday. He may not be political but he has for years said must leave . A bit bit of a worry and a bit late if he is now saying he has doubts if it was right thing to do.

 

[amexer]

Maybe unfair but Cummings coming over as someone who was supportive of everything that went well and against anything that didnt