Dispersal Orders are going to be used in Brighton

[West Hoathly Seagull]

Walking to Churchill Square today, I saw a BBC South East Today van and a load of police, with notices being pinned to the street lights behind the Madisons Coffee stand. Apparently they are putting in a Dispersal Zone between West Street and Montpelier Road. Police will be able to tell groups of 2 or more who are behaving badly to disperse and not return for 24 hours between 9 pm and 6 am and take anyone under 16 home who is not accompanied by a responsible adult. The Liberals will no doubt kick up a huge fuss (in Richmond it is being challenged by a 13 year old), but some may feel it is a good idea to stop yobs ruining the centre of the city at night. I have to be neutral on this, as I work for the Department that introduced the power to bring in these orders. What do others feel?

 

[beorhthelm]

No problem with the under 16 aspect, but otherwise a gross over-empowerment of the police. What the f*** defines "behaving badly" ? What if i work on West Street, i cant go to work the next day?

Police have the power to move you along, and that should be sufficent. If you dont then they should arrest you. Why do police even nee all these stupid new powers?

 

[Beach Hut]

Bit OTT to say the least.

I assume it applies to EF Foreign Students as well in the summer ?

 

[West Hoathly Seagull]

As I said before, I cannot really comment on whether these powers should be brought in, but it is fairly typical of the initiatives New Labour keeps introducing. One Minister in particular in our Department keeps on coming up with these ideas. I would have thought they were unnecessary, as rowdy people can already be given ASBOs, which ban them from a particular area for a certain length of time. Breaking that ASBO is a criminal offence. I can't disagree with the under 16s part, though.

 

[Rangdo]

No problem with the under 16 aspect, but otherwise a gross over-empowerment of the police. What the f*** defines "behaving badly" ? What if i work on West Street, i cant go to work the next day?

Are you likely to start work before 6am on West Street? I'm all for it. I trust them to not use it irresponsibly. I suspect that it is aimed at removing the groups of 14-18 year olds that hang about the bus stop and chase each other into the road every weekend. At the end of the day if you are a normal person on a normal night out, even if you are in a group, it won't affect you. I personally couldn't give a f*** but my girlfriend quite often feels intimidated by these groups and will be thankful for it.

 

[Rangdo]

rowdy people can already be given ASBOs, which ban them from a particular area for a certain length of time.

Firstly ASBOs only get dished out for repeated anti-social behaviour in a particular area whereas this is aimed at giving police the powers to move groups on.
Secondly ASBOs aren't worth the paper they are written on (if they are written on paper). There is a Kiddy round where I live on one and he behaves exactly now as he did before he was on it.

 

[beorhthelm]

Are you likely to start work before 6am on West Street? I'm all for it. I trust them to not use it irresponsibly.

Read it again - the Dispersal Zone is effect between 9pm and 6am, but if youve been cautioned/warned whatever, then your effectivly barred from that area for 24hrs.

I hope these sorts of of powers are used responsibly and sure on the most part they will be. But imho it is fundementally wrong for the Police to have the power of what is in effect summary justice. They should warn you of the implications of your actions and arrest you if you break the law/ignore their instructions. It is for a Magistrate or Judge to determine what punishment is required. Thin end of the wedge.

 

[perseus]

You know, if
one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and
they won't take him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony,
they may think they're both faggots and they won't take either of them.
And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in
singing on Churchill Square and walking out. They may think it's an
organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day, I said
fifty people a day walking on Churchill Square and
walking out. And fans they may thinks it's a football crowd.

 

[Rangdo]

Read it again - the Dispersal Zone is effect between 9pm and 6am, but if youve been cautioned/warned whatever, then your effectivly barred from that area for 24hrs.

I hope these sorts of of powers are used responsibly and sure on the most part they will be. But imho it is fundementally wrong for the Police to have the power of what is in effect summary justice. They should warn you of the implications of your actions and arrest you if you break the law/ignore their instructions. It is for a Magistrate or Judge to determine what punishment is required. Thin end of the wedge.

Fair enough about the 24 hours.
However, why waste thousands of pounds a year taking people to court when the problem can be solved by simply moving people on which is effectively what this is doing.
It's really not that big a deal. If you work in the area don't hang around in big groups causing trouble the night before. It's just a quick cost-effective way of dealing with big groups of trouble makers who, I suspect, will be mostly under 18s anyway.

 

[NickL]

We've been using them in Lancing for almost a year. They're mainly used to stop groups of kids harassing shop owners and residents and are far more effective than simply moving them on, as they'll be back in the same place within the hour.
Highly effective if used correctly.

 

[NMH]

Unfortunately, a lot of cops are just thick turds and power-maniacs - which is why they wanted to wear a uniform in the 1st place.

Alright, so some kids misbehave - but this move is getting to stink of 'police state'.
Are the cops going to protect the good people who are just spirited and enjoying a nice evening out - or are they going to stand over them looking 'not amused' and officious?

It doesn't sound good to me.

 

[dougdeep]

We've had one of these in Seaford for ages(Honest). I think the old folk were getting rowdy on pension day.

 

[Gwylan]

I remember being dispersed by an over-keen copper 18 years ago. I'm sure he acted illegally but it sounds like they're just legitimising what coppers have done for ages.

In my case, all I was doing was walking down the road, I was turning my head a lot as I was looking for a cab (it was 1.00am). The copper saw me, decided I was "a homosexual looking for action" ("we're trained to recognise them you know") and took me to a minicab office, commandeered a cab and ordered me to leave and not come back to his area again.

At the time, I was torn between being angry and relieved (he'd helped me jump a very long queue) but, when I sobered up, I thought of how outrageous his behaviour was.

It sounds like what's being proposed is akin to some sort of curfew on young people. As others have pointed out, there are plenty of laws already to curb aggressive behaviour, these orders aare bound to be misused.

 

[wehatepalace]

.

In my case, all I was doing was walking down the road, I was turning my head a lot as I was looking for a cab (it was 1.00am). The copper saw me, decided I was "a homosexual looking for action" ("we're trained to recognise them you know") and took me to a minicab office, commandeered a cab and ordered me to leave and not come back to his area again.

:safeway

 

[Tommy Cook reporting]

In Tunbridge Wells a 75yr old ex-army bodyguard has got together a 'vigilante' group to stop anti-social behaviour. He has got 15 blokes at the moment and is trying to get as many as 500!!!

Personally if he can give us a hand at The Forum in Tunbridge Wells to deal with the 30-40 Chavs who mug, assault, intimidate etc anyone around our premises then good luck to him. Cos we're fed up with it and the old bill generally can't be arsed. Take last night, there were 20 of them giving it the bigun to me and my mate Tom as we did the door, but we know full well that the moment you retaliate they'll be getting you nicked cos they're all 15/16.

Now, I consider myself as left-wing but I also live in the real world and quite frankly something needs to be done with these scummy chavs. And let's face it, that's what they always are. If we could get them moved on for 24hrs we'd be happy. Personally though, the site of a 75yr old geezer and his mates laying into them would please me even more!

 

[The Large One]

I work in an office in Western Road within that area defined by the first post. (It's actually dead opposite HMV and KFC)

When I have had occasion to work late, they do become noisy little bleeders, and they can be intimidating (if not threatening) to people passing by. The problem is 'a quiet word' by anyone in authority is going to make matters worse.

So the Police have two choices. They can keep let a situation run its course, or they can step in. However, if they DO step in, it can only be with a view to dispersing the group, because there is nothing a small handful out of a group of kids enjoys more than ragging the fuzz - and that's when it escalates.

However, the area immediately around Churchill Square is a different matter entirely...

 

[Infernal Optimist]

Why don't we just allow the Police to arrest anybody they want whenever they want. Oh and while were at it, let them imprison anyone they want for as long as they want without bothering to gather any evidence

Oh yeah we are aren't we...

It's like Nazi Germany, whatever happened to the rule of law? There was already any number of public order laws available. If somebody has done something and the police think they can prove it, nick em.

If not keep trying to do the job properly instead of allowing this sort of lazy policing to alienate the general population against the police.

Oh, and how long do you think it will be before this is used to clear a pub of supporters they consider 'rowdy'?