Disabled Parking, were you told it would be free?

[Superphil]

The problem lies with the fact that the club is fully aware of the situation, especially because of the sterling work by Portlock Seagull, Herr Tubthumper & Tiny tears, but states that they have changed their mind, and they won't be changing it back.

In effect, like it or lump it.

From there the very people who need this facility, are generally not in the condition of health to instrument a protest or like.

Firstly, they changed their mind once, with adequate fan power couldn't we get them to change it again?

Secondly, sorry LG, but if you can get to the game, you can get to the West Stand entrance for a protest pre match, even more effective if there is a good representation of those affected by this.

There are a number of online petition sites out there, and apart from a couple, you’d easily get everyone on there to sign it. Plus, I’m sure Mr Naylor would be happy to give it a mention in the Argos, and then there are other local rags to, plus Facebook and of course disability groups that you are already part of. A few thousand signatures, a peaceful protest before a match, with a symbolic hand over of the petition to Mr Perry, or Mr Bloom. I believe it would have an effect, those guys do not want negative publicity, especially over something that would be so easy and cheap for them to deal with.

 

[libra-gully]

Firstly, they changed their mind once, with adequate fan power couldn't we get them to change it again?

Secondly, sorry LG, but if you can get to the game, you can get to the West Stand entrance for a protest pre match, even more effective if there is a good representation of those affected by this.

There are a number of online petition sites out there, and apart from a couple, you’d easily get everyone on there to sign it. Plus, I’m sure Mr Naylor would be happy to give it a mention in the Argos, and then there are other local rags to, plus Facebook and of course disability groups that you are already part of. A few thousand signatures, a peaceful protest before a match, with a symbolic hand over of the petition to Mr Perry, or Mr Bloom. I believe it would have an effect, those guys do not want negative publicity, especially over something that would be so easy and cheap for them to deal with.

Thank you for your comments.

1. The club is adamant that they won't change their mind. I suspect that they think this is only a small matter being aired by an even smaller group of fans. I am aware of many who have simply paid up under protest as they felt they had no choice.

That is ok if you have £180 spare, but many don't. Without a suitable parking space, some will be unable to access the ground.

2. I have been told to let this lie, as the club are not going to change their mind. I took this advice on board, but without £180, myself and my young family will be going nowhere.

I am more than happy to kick up a fuss, as I see I don't have a choice, but i am aware of some whose condition prevents them possibly from such activity.

3. Mr Naylor at the Argos has not answered my personal 3 emails to him. It seems he is to busy attacking moaners. I guess he feels we are part of that ethos!

Mr Bloom's own Uncle walks very slowly with a very large stick, and so he must be aware of the issues, particularly as he was sitting right next to Perry at the fans forum, where this was publicly raised three times, but dismissed.

Finally, with regards to social network sites and the likes, I must confess to being a dinosaur. I have only just learnt how to text, because the wife made me! Twitter, Facebook, Mumsnet etc mean absolutely nothing to me, sorry. This is where I was hoping a techy kind of person could help out, hence my previous suggestion to Bozza and the moderators (that well known heavy rock group!) to assist.

Once again though, thank you Phil for supporting our cause.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The club won't justify why it has taken £360 for the 700 spaces 'just outside the stadium' whilst making disabled punters use the Sx Uni option.

It appears that 30 mins is the average time for disabled people to walk from the Uni to the ground, as the poster mentions in good weather!

Fundamentally, it seems that we were all told verbally the position, and nothing seems to exist in writing, but that becomes irrelevant when the club simply say " we have changed our minds".

Yes, I personally feel royally screwed, but with nothing in writing TS are powerless to do anything it seems. Unless I have that wrong?

Surely contract law comes into play here ? If you brought goods / services ( in this case a season ticket ) partly based on being told you would get free parking then it is a contract. Doesn't matter if it was a conversation or email it is still a contract.

Maybe, if there is enough of you, you should join together and take the club to the Small Claims Court for breaking the contract. You would then be able to claim your losses for the club breaking the contract which in this case would be your court costs and your £180 parking charge. In Small Claims Court the judge rules on the case based on likely probability rather than the "beyond reasonable doubt" that's used for criminal cases. Looking at this thread, if there is indeed an email and enough people can reasonably claim they were "told" it was free parking, I would suggest you have a good case.

 

[clippedgull]

I think the P&R charge would be fair times the number of people in the vehicle.

 

[Tooting Gull]

IF the facts are as stated by libra-gully - there are always two sides, but I have a hunch they might be - it's a bit of a no-brainer for the club. There is a massive difference between 'sales patter', and 'mis-selling' (ie moving the goalposts after clinching a sale). I certainly don't have proof that has happened, but that is what is effectively being claimed.

I imagine this specifically affects a small number of people. 30? 40? 30 x £180 is £5,400 for the year, that is nothing given what we are now turning over per season. Why risk all the bad feeling for such a relatively small amount of money? Give the disabled fans the free spaces they were promised, end of argument. Good luck.

Of course the bigger problem here is that proper and full provision for likely car numbers has not been made, and this just increases the pressure everywhere, including this case. Solving that is going to be harder.

 

[Superphil]

Of course the bigger problem here is that proper and full provision for likely car numbers has not been made, and this just increases the pressure everywhere, including this case. Solving that is going to be harder.

There are enough parking spaces, they are just allocated awkwardly. On match days move the staff and payers to the University spaces, and then (taking into account the Bennetts Field spaces) you have enough for all the disabled spaces required, easily. It's not rocket science, and if anyone is worried about our poor little players walking all that way, then move a couple of dozen 1901 spaces over to the University site, 'sake, it's really not difficult to sort out the spaces, just got to get the club to revert back to their original promise regarding the cost.

 

[El Presidente]

I can't speak on behalf of Bozza, but I am sure we could arrange a sticky for a thread asking the club to reconsider in relation to a petition.

I would however suggest that this is restrictive, in that NSC is not used by all Albion fans.

I have however, set up a petition, and you can link to it here, and also persuade others to link to it via Facebook etc if they so wish

http://www.petitiononline.co.uk/petition/brighton-and-hove-albion-should-not-renege-on-their-promise-to-provide-free-parking-for-disabled-fans/3419

 

[libra-gully]

Surely contract law comes into play here ? If you brought goods / services ( in this case a season ticket ) partly based on being told you would get free parking then it is a contract. Doesn't matter if it was a conversation or email it is still a contract.

Maybe, if there is enough of you, you should join together and take the club to the Small Claims Court for breaking the contract. You would then be able to claim your losses for the club breaking the contract which in this case would be your court costs and your £180 parking charge. In Small Claims Court the judge rules on the case based on likely probability rather than the "beyond reasonable doubt" that's used for criminal cases. Looking at this thread, if there is indeed an email and enough people can reasonably claim they were "told" it was free parking, I would suggest you have a good case.

As the OG for this issue I feel I need to clarify for all others looking at this great piece of democracy in action.

At my ST presentation, which was hosted by Richard Hebbard, my salesperson when asked said that 'parking would be right outside for disabled supporters' (in the area now known as Bennetts Field) and when pressed about any cost said " there it will be free. All you will pay is the cost of your various STs". On this basis, I signed up for 4 STs, and paid in full for all of them within the week!

With the season getting nearer, I approached the club about booking a parking space, as they suggested on their website. It was only then, roughly 16 days before the season started, did any of us find out that the club was now going to charge £180 per space, and that a lot of those spaces are in Sx Uni, which is an average 30 mins walk for those of us on crutches or with disabilities.

They had my booking back in Jan or Feb, but waited until August before raising this issue.

What I found even sadder was that Mr Bloom sat alongside Mr Perry at the Fans Forum when this issue was raised 3 times, and at no point jumped in to end this nonsense, seemingly quite happy for Mr Perry to carry on airing the board's policy.

As it is, many supporters do not have a choice to use public transport, they have to be driven to the stadium. There fore we have no choice but to pay this amount for the space, or in effect waste the price of our STs.

I welcome any comments and support for this motion.

Thank you.

 

[The Oldman]

Surely contract law comes into play here ? If you brought goods / services ( in this case a season ticket ) partly based on being told you would get free parking then it is a contract. Doesn't matter if it was a conversation or email it is still a contract.

Maybe, if there is enough of you, you should join together and take the club to the Small Claims Court for breaking the contract. You would then be able to claim your losses for the club breaking the contract which in this case would be your court costs and your £180 parking charge. In Small Claims Court the judge rules on the case based on likely probability rather than the "beyond reasonable doubt" that's used for criminal cases. Looking at this thread, if there is indeed an email and enough people can reasonably claim they were "told" it was free parking, I would suggest you have a good case.

This is excellent advice. Small Claim actions do not cost a lot of cash and if a few of you got together it would not be great.

Taking a dispute to the small claims court - Making a complaint - Which? Consumer Rights

Whether in writing or verbally a contract is a contract and the purchase of a Season Ticket was made with condition of free parking as part of the deal. You cannot just say after entering a contract that I've changed my mind without opening yourself to compensation for breach of contract. The mere threat of court action often persuades the defendant to think again.

Court action v petitions. I know which route I would take.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

If anyone on here would like to start a fund, similar to kit sponsorship, to help buy parking spaces for disabled fans who can't afford it, I would be more than happy to chip in. I know that there are matters of principle at stake, but it would help the people most in need.

 

[tinytears]

If anyone on here would like to start a fund, similar to kit sponsorship, to help buy parking spaces for disabled fans who can't afford it, I would be more than happy to chip in. I know that there are matters of principle at stake, but it would help the people most in need.

It is a lovely idea but they all sold. The other problem is there were not enough spaces to cover the demand. According to the club at the game against Doncaster only 28 of the 46 spaces were occupied. It would be good if there was a system where if people know they will not be using them for a certain game , they could register with the club so someone else may use the space that day

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

It's ok Bods have been discussing it with the club and have an email from Martin Perry that cleary states that it would be free and now it's changed - all wrong in my opinion - bods have been fighting this and they(Ken brown Richard Hebbard Martin Perry) don't seem to listen. If something is said to many people at presentations that it will be free and Martin confirms it in an email then that is what should happen. I would be tempted to ask the club for an explanation as to why it has changed and they now want to charge £180.00. Maybe its the cost of the carpark being done but surely that hasn't cost that much. Perhaps if they explained to fans why instead of always ignoring a complaints then maybe they would understand. Through most of mine and my familys dealings with the club if you have a compliment you get a reply - if its a query that they can't answer or complaint you get ignored

Apparently, the Club has told B&HCC that they are paying the owners of Bennett's Field £3 per game for each C/P space (ie £1,950/game).

 

[pork pie]

STOP f***ing MOANING! If you don't want your ticket - sell it to someone else on the waiting list. Simples!

 

[libra-gully]

STOP f***ing MOANING! If you don't want your ticket - sell it to someone else on the waiting list. Simples!

Thank you for taking the moral high ground!

Nobody here is moaning, we are merely making the point that currently some supporters with STs are now unable to get to the game because they cannot afford the extra £180 quoted for their space.

If the club came out and said that the travel voucher would now be £100 for the season, would I be correct in thinking that you would simply accept this without a questioning word?

I sincerely hope that neither you or any of your loved ones ever need to use the disabled system as clearly it would be a shock to your way of thinking.

To everybody else, I implore you to support this petition to show that your disabled colleagues are not forgotten, and remain part of the Albion family.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Apparently, the Club has told B&HCC that they are paying the owners of Bennett's Field £3 per game for each C/P space (ie £1,950/game).

Or about £75 a year for each space.

Obviously there are other significant costs involved as well - not the least of which will have been the costs of levelling and surfacing the site and improving the junction between the Woodingdean road and Village Way. To say nothing about the costs of restoring the site to agricultural use after three years.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I think anybody affected by this situation needs to get in touch with Trading Standards - at the end of the day, if that email from the club clearly states the disabled parking would be free....and if people were being told at their presentations that disabled parking would be free (and beside the stadium), then you have all purchased your season tickets on that understanding, in other words you must feel that you were mis-led by incorrect information when making the decision to buy your tickets. Perhaps Trading Standards would take this up on your behalf.

That's sensible advice.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

STOP f***ing MOANING! If you don't want your ticket - sell it to someone else on the waiting list. Simples!

Don't half get some morons on here sometimes

 

[Seagull Steve]

STOP f***ing MOANING! If you don't want your ticket - sell it to someone else on the waiting list. Simples!

You should stay in Pork pie land with that disgraceful attitude.

At my presentation I was also told that parking would be free and right outside was the words used. I live in Moulsecoomb so I can travel up to the stadium on my mobility scooter, and leave a disabled space for somebody needing it more than myself. (not only that but if I had been allocated the Uni site, it would have been about the same distance as my house away)
It is clear that the club have behaved very badly with this issue, I hope they see sense, and realise that this is ruining the Amex experience for a number of Albion supporters, The same Albion supporters that marched, protested and campaigned to make the Amex in the first place.

 

[libra-gully]

Don't half get some morons on here sometimes

Hi TH,

Do you remember on a previous thread when you said that if we bring this to the club's attention, hopefully good grace and common sense would come to pass (or very similar words)?

Sadly, no-one could be bothered to listen, and when they did they were not interested!

 

[Mr Burns]

Are all 4 of you in the car disabled? Surely if you have parking on site at an average of £7.50 per home game that is bloody good value. So what's the problem?

Personally I don't see why disabled people should get FREE parking, that would discrimnate against the able bodied who have to pay. Yes, I agree that disabled people should be guaranteed (as much as possible) parking ON SITE, but there is no compulsion to make it free as well.

I completely agree with that.

You should be able to park as close as possible to the ground, and don't see why it should be free. However the club should try and help some out if needed, but I'm sure it was just a mis-understandin.

I can hardly imagine Martin Perry saying to the salespeople, lets try and con the disabled supporters. Why can't it be taken it as a misunderstanding and move on.