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Dick Knight`s 2 million



Questions

Habitual User
Oct 18, 2006
25,296
Worthing
How does player trading alter those figures EP ?
 




Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,397
The arse end of Hangleton
I don't have the full details, as a lot of the detail is hidden in amounts owed to the holding company. I will find out more details tomorrow when Companies House is back online.

Out of interest, our losses for the last three years BEFORE player trading is taken into account, are as follows

2004/5 £976,000 (Championship)
2005/6 £2,230,000 (Championship)
2006/7 £2,812,000 (League 1)

Total amounts owing to creditors now tops £15.5 million. of which I estimate at least £13.9 million is due directly or indirectly to the board.

Note that these figures are at 30 June 2007, so realistically we can add another £2 million for the year to 30 June 2008, as further falls in attendances, coupled with the end of parachute payments from the Championship, will have pushed the club further into the red.

One of the notes to the accounts reveals that the club has over £18 million of trading losses available for tax purposes, but the board state that they cannot foresee a date when profitability will be achieved.

The auditors state that the club is technically insolvent, and is only trading due to the goodwill of the board.

Such goodwill towards the board is noticeably lacking from NSC.

Makes the "I've spent £xxx on a season ticket for this crap" arguement seem irrelevent by comparison. At least the board can argue "I've spent £xxx MILLIONS just about EVERY season to watch this crap". Maybe those calling for DK to resign might like to replace his investment from their own pocket ???
 


El Presidente

The ONLY Gay in Brighton
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
39,912
Pattknull med Haksprut
How does player trading alter those figures EP ?

2004/5 Profit on players £450k
2005/6 Profit on players £2.125m (whoever slags off McGhee please note)
2006/7 I don't have the information to hand at present, but I can only think of the sale of CKR that season, so it will be neglible I suspect.
 


Jamie

New member
Jun 28, 2008
882
I want our 2 million and I want it now Nurse Ratchett.

"Our £2Million".. er its his cash

dont you think that Dick Knight has spent a small fortune on this club already ?

Er.. ell you what, why dont you give the club some money and stop spending other peoples!
 


Questions

Habitual User
Oct 18, 2006
25,296
Worthing
"Our £2Million".. er its his cash

dont you think that Dick Knight has spent a small fortune on this club already ?

Er.. ell you what, why dont you give the club some money and stop spending other peoples!

Mmmmmmmmm let me think about this one. I`m expecting the chairman of a football club to invest his own money into it. (with valuable share options to come in 2011) Yes I see how unreasonable that makes me appear now, well pointed out.
 




Jamie

New member
Jun 28, 2008
882
Mmmmmmmmm let me think about this one. I`m expecting the chairman of a football club to invest his own money into it. (with valuable share options to come in 2011) Yes I see how unreasonable that makes me appear now, well pointed out.

Yes mate, you are at it again, stop telling other people what to do with their cash..

Unless you know someone else that wants to invest in the club, keep it afloat and build a new ground then, call me unreasonable, but you might be abit more grateful, and please mate,

stop spending other peoples cash for them!
 


Questions

Habitual User
Oct 18, 2006
25,296
Worthing
Yes mate, you are at it again, stop telling other people what to do with their cash..

Unless you know someone else that wants to invest in the club, keep it afloat and build a new ground then, call me unreasonable, but you might be abit more grateful, and please mate,

stop spending other peoples cash for them!


Sorry. Lend us a fiver will you.
 






Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
61,775
The Fatherland
I don't have the full details, as a lot of the detail is hidden in amounts owed to the holding company. I will find out more details tomorrow when Companies House is back online.

Out of interest, our losses for the last three years BEFORE player trading is taken into account, are as follows

2004/5 £976,000 (Championship)
2005/6 £2,230,000 (Championship)
2006/7 £2,812,000 (League 1)

Total amounts owing to creditors now tops £15.5 million. of which I estimate at least £13.9 million is due directly or indirectly to the board.

Note that these figures are at 30 June 2007, so realistically we can add another £2 million for the year to 30 June 2008, as further falls in attendances, coupled with the end of parachute payments from the Championship, will have pushed the club further into the red.

One of the notes to the accounts reveals that the club has over £18 million of trading losses available for tax purposes, but the board state that they cannot foresee a date when profitability will be achieved.

The auditors state that the club is technically insolvent, and is only trading due to the goodwill of the board.

Such goodwill towards the board is noticeably lacking from NSC.

Those final 3 paragraphs are worrying, especially with respect to obtaining funding for Falmer.
 


El Presidente

The ONLY Gay in Brighton
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
39,912
Pattknull med Haksprut
Mmmmmmmmm let me think about this one. I`m expecting the chairman of a football club to invest his own money into it. (with valuable share options to come in 2011) Yes I see how unreasonable that makes me appear now, well pointed out.

Questions, could you please let me know about how these valuable share options work and how DK will make his fortune?

I assume that you would value them using the traditional methods, such as Black Scholes, Monte Carlo distribution or binomial, but every time I attempt to apply such a valuation method, the shares keep coming out at zero value.

If you have an alternative valuation I would be intrigued to hear about it, as I've not heard anything new from the places where I've taught it, such as Goldman Sachs, Deutsche Bank, JP Morgan, UBS, Credit Suisse, HBOS and a few others.

Alternatively, you could be talking complete bollocks.
 


Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,397
The arse end of Hangleton
Mmmmmmmmm let me think about this one. I`m expecting the chairman of a football club to invest his own money into it. (with valuable share options to come in 2011) Yes I see how unreasonable that makes me appear now, well pointed out.

Whether people like it or not BHA is a private limited company - the chairman has no responsibility to put his own money in. People need to give Knight some slack - he's spent his OWN money on the club and yet there's ungrateful sods asking for more !!! Tell you what - YOU put, say, £1000 of your own money into the club ( and I don't mean by buying a season ticket ).
 




Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
61,775
The Fatherland
I don't have the full details, as a lot of the detail is hidden in amounts owed to the holding company. I will find out more details tomorrow when Companies House is back online.

Out of interest, our losses for the last three years BEFORE player trading is taken into account, are as follows

2004/5 £976,000 (Championship)
2005/6 £2,230,000 (Championship)
2006/7 £2,812,000 (League 1)

Total amounts owing to creditors now tops £15.5 million. of which I estimate at least £13.9 million is due directly or indirectly to the board.

Note that these figures are at 30 June 2007, so realistically we can add another £2 million for the year to 30 June 2008, as further falls in attendances, coupled with the end of parachute payments from the Championship, will have pushed the club further into the red.

One of the notes to the accounts reveals that the club has over £18 million of trading losses available for tax purposes, but the board state that they cannot foresee a date when profitability will be achieved.

The auditors state that the club is technically insolvent, and is only trading due to the goodwill of the board.

Such goodwill towards the board is noticeably lacking from NSC.

Thanks, it will be interesting to know who has put what in, and what form the investment takes e.g. loan, shares etc. I imagine that DK and co have not just given the club money with no strings attached.
 


DTES

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
6,022
London
Those final 3 paragraphs are worrying, especially with respect to obtaining funding for Falmer.

The insolvency could only possibly be an issue if the board, who have invested millions and millions (oh, and more millions) of their own money ALREADY decided they had had enough and walked away taking their cash back.

Of course, there's no way they would do that as there are thousands of fans who fully appreciate those millions and millions and who do nothing but sing their praises. Oh...
 


Jamie

New member
Jun 28, 2008
882
Thanks, it will be interesting to know who has put what in, and what form the investment takes e.g. loan, shares etc. I imagine that DK and co have not just given the club money with no strings attached.

strings attached? interesting turn of phrase, what do you mean, that they might want it back some day. im sure they do, but they know as do you and i that in reality, it is a gift, unless somehow we tun into man u or arsnal someday.,!

just be grateful its not hard. You dont have to agree with sacking wilking, adams, the youth set up, white, the marketing (take your own gripe from that lot). But you can recognise the obvious, that is that a few rich people out of their own pockets have saved the cub, which after Archer, left the club with no assets. They have also or will soon deliver a new ground and a future.. so can i hear a small "well done, yes they have done an amazing job against the odds"
 




Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
61,775
The Fatherland
strings attached? interesting turn of phrase, what do you mean, that they might want it back some day. im sure they do, but they know as do you and i that in reality, it is a gift, unless somehow we tun into man u or arsnal someday.,!

just be grateful its not hard. You dont have to agree with sacking wilking, adams, the youth set up, white, the marketing (take your own gripe from that lot). But you can recognise the obvious, that is that a few rich people out of their own pockets have saved the cub, which after Archer, left the club with no assets. They have also or will soon deliver a new ground and a future.. so can i hear a small "well done, yes they have done an amazing job against the odds"

Hold on, I have not criticised the board in this thread. Maybe strings attached is not best use of English though, I'm just curious how the investment is secured.
 


Jamie

New member
Jun 28, 2008
882
Hold on, I have not criticised the board in this thread. Maybe strings attached is not best use of English though, I'm just curious how the investment is secured.

fair enough

the answer to the security question is I think obvious. there are different types of seurity but none of it is worth anything unless the asset that is the security has value.

So ask ourself, the club has no ground, makes a loss, and the only assets are players 5th fom bottom of the third division, there is no security, just hope or as I expect the money given by the board is done so in the knowledge they are unlikely to get it back, well unless bill Gates suddenly decides he wants to buy the club!

the albion lives on charity. hen at falmer it has a chance to build something but for now the club lives on charity. That, my friend, would seem to be the reality
 


El Presidente

The ONLY Gay in Brighton
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
39,912
Pattknull med Haksprut
Thanks, it will be interesting to know who has put what in, and what form the investment takes e.g. loan, shares etc. I imagine that DK and co have not just given the club money with no strings attached.

The directors have the following DIRECT loans

DK £428,000
Derek Chapman £111,000
Ray Bloom £35,000

DK owns 51 shares (out of 80,233 issued)
Ray Bloom owns 2 shares

The major loan creditors are (at 30 June 2006)

Brighton and Hove Albion Sports and Leisure Limited £5.3 million
Other loans £4.4 million
Directors £584k

No interest was paid in respect of the above loans.

There would appear to be no strings attached, the club has no assets, so therefore not possible to have any strings.

What is of interest would be how the remainder of the board behaved if ONE of the directors pulled out and wanted all his money back.
 










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