[Albion] Deluded Leeds (an EFL club) fans

[Wozza]

Surely to ridicule the fans of Leeds for believing the club is "bigger" than Brighton and Hove Albion is to commit a category error?

The status of a football club, normally called its "size" is a social construct. It doesn't have an objective reality, it is a product of what we all believe to be the case. And it is not the same as the status of the current team. Teams, owners, fans are all temporary, the club alone, as a construct endures.

There is a lot of debate about gender in the public realm, and how it is also a social construct. So we are told that sex may be biological, but gender is not. And a transgender person is a man or woman, despite their chromosones if they assert they are, and others treat them as such.

I put it to you that Leeds United are perceived by football fans to be a "bigger" club than Brighton, irrespective of whether the latter presently have more money or have a better team. Indeed some Brighton fans themselves have accepted this on this very thread.

So why would Leeds fan be "deluded" for also believing this?

Well, firstly, the fact that you have to keep telling us Leeds is a bigger club says a lot.

But, also, there are many levels of delusion here (and on Twitter) - eg that White couldn't possibly want to stay at Brighton given Leeds are interested, that White's career will progress better at Leeds, that Leeds will be challenging for the Champions League etc etc.

 

[Killer Whale]

So you don’t accept that it is completely deluded to think that Bielsa “made” Ben White the player he is today? This seems to be the perception of many Leeds fans.

I don't think that is "deluded" no. It is an opinion that you may disagree with, and of course do, and it may be wrong for the matter of that, but why would such a belief be delusional?

But let's concede that point, I don't for a moment, but let's say you are right in this. It doesn't have any relevance to my earlier point. Which is that you are criticising Leeds fans for a belief that they are a "bigger" club than Brighton, even though that is construct that neutral fans accept, and indeed even you yourselves do!

 

[Killer Whale]

Well, firstly, the fact that you have to keep telling us Leeds is a bigger club says a lot.

But, also, there are many levels of delusion here (and on Twitter) - eg that White couldn't possibly want to stay at Brighton given Leeds are interested, that White's career will progress better at Leeds, that Leeds will be challenging for the Champions League etc etc.

White would be a starter at Leeds this season in the Premier League, and (so you tell me on here) is likely to be on the bench at Brighton. Of course he may prefer to stay at Brighton, I fully concede that, but why would it be deluded tto believe that he might want to play? Isn't playing of more interest to a footballer than watching others do so?

More, isn't playing regularly in the Premier League, every week, likely to be more developmental than sitting on the bench? So once again, why is it "deluded" to assert this?

Leeds playing in the Champions League in the near term is a stretch, that I grant you. I don't know if it is "delusional" to believe in it as a possibility in the medium term, but it is optimistic to say the least. But isn't that true of Brighton as well?

 

[Surrey_Albion]

People of the age, say 20 (White only 22) only know leeds as a championship side who havent won anything. Just saying

 

[lawros left foot]

White would be a starter at Leeds this season in the Premier League, and (so you tell me on here) is likely to be on the bench at Brighton. Of course he may prefer to stay at Brighton, I fully concede that, but why would it be deluded tto believe that he might want to play? Isn't playing of more interest to a footballer than watching others do so?

More, isn't playing regularly in the Premier League, every week, likely to be more developmental than sitting on the bench? So once again, why is it "deluded" to assert this?

Leeds playing in the Champions League in the near term is a stretch, that I grant you. I don't know if it is "delusional" to believe in it as a possibility in the medium term, but it is optimistic to say the least. But isn't that true of Brighton as well?

Personally, I think our management are looking at White as a defensive midfielder. I think this makes more sense than than us having a stable of 5 good cbs without big Shane,, and only Stephens as an established dmf.

 

[Icy Gull]

I don't think that is "deluded" no. It is an opinion that you may disagree with, and of course do, and it may be wrong for the matter of that, but why would such a belief be delusional?

But let's concede that point, I don't for a moment, but let's say you are right in this. It doesn't have any relevance to my earlier point. Which is that you are criticising Leeds fans for a belief that they are a "bigger" club than Brighton, even though that is construct that neutral fans accept, and indeed even you yourselves do!

I do think of Leeds as a “bigger” club than the Albion but if you look at White’s progression over the last three seasons it has been an incremental improvement year on year. So yes it is totally deluded to think that White, having been one of two proposed August Leeds player of the month has somehow kicked on so much that it’s all down to Bielsa that he ends up as your player of the year. It’s like suggesting that Dunk made it as our player of the year because of Potter, who was also in his first season with us.

You ARE deluded if you believe that White has only improved because of Bielsa. He’d probably have been your player of the season whoever was your manager. I suggest you may have struggled to get promoted so easily without White. The fact that he shone is not down to Bielsa being the Messiah, although I’m sure it helped.

 

[Gwylan]

Leeds playing in the Champions League in the near term is a stretch, that I grant you. I don't know if it is "delusional" to believe in it as a possibility in the medium term, but it is optimistic to say the least. But isn't that true of Brighton as well?

I doubt if you find many (if any) Brighton fans who think that we're going finish the next season in the Champions League places

 

[Icy Gull]

I doubt if you find many (if any) Brighton fans who think that we're going finish the next season in the Champions League places

Most of us are dubious we’ll even make the top 10 I imagine. Maybe we need to aim higher!

 

[peterward]

Surely to ridicule the fans of Leeds for believing the club is "bigger" than Brighton and Hove Albion is to commit a category error?

The status of a football club, normally called its "size" is a social construct. It doesn't have an objective reality, it is a product of what we all believe to be the case. And it is not the same as the status of the current team. Teams, owners, fans are all temporary, the club alone, as a construct endures.

There is a lot of debate about gender in the public realm, and how it is also a social construct. So we are told that sex may be biological, but gender is not. And a transgender person is a man or woman, despite their chromosones if they assert they are, and others treat them as such.

I put it to you that Leeds United are perceived by football fans to be a "bigger" club than Brighton, irrespective of whether the latter presently have more money or have a better team. Indeed some Brighton fans themselves have accepted this on this very thread.

So why would Leeds fan be "deluded" for also believing this?

thats a false argument or a smoke screen. Again nobody suggests Brighton is historically bigger club than Leeds, it isnt. But Leeds united today is not Leeds united of 1970. It doesnt have PL squad, Its ground is less modern than many clubs including ours, your new 21st century training facilities are a while away, Brighton has one of the best in the country today. You have just received Cat1 academy status we are a few years ahead of you. You have a great manager, who is also unpredictable and we have a young progressive manager with a different, but still impressive back story.

Its deluded to think (unless they were a child leeds fan) that x,y,z modern 21st century player would walk around our respective training facilities, look at our respective squads and the calibre of player in each today, look at how each club is run........ a billionaire, lifelong fan owner with a young progressive, supportive manager or an owner (not knocking him btw) who is another in a long list of foreign owners, with a maverick genius disciplinarian, whose walked out of many jobs and still think..... you know what, I want Leeds because of its fans or because or what they did in 1970, I'm prepared to play with lower quality players and train in worse facilities just because its the once mighty Leeds.

But your lot truly have that crazyiness deeply ingrained. Our brilliant academy scouting system identified ben White, we've nurtured him over the past few years and put him on a path to get to our first team with progressive steps. (Newport country manger said he's destined for the top and an England call up, before many Leeds fans had even heard of Bielsa). fwiw. The other Centre half we sent to the championship has won Derby player of the year.

There is a lot going right in our club, its modern, hard working, sensible and progressive..... its why your chairman identified us an example to follow. Your deluded fans just dont get it, for them Leeds are comparative to the top 6 and nobody in their right mind couldn't pick Leeds. And its the total arrogance, entitlement and contempt from your ignorant muppet fans, that makes Leeds look stupid. You've earned nothing yet, other than promotion from the championship. Legends in your own minds only.

 

[Nixonator]

Not impressed by this fixation on Leeds and/or their fans. They've been places our club can only dream of. Bit of a demeaning thread that says WAY more about us and our historical piss-poor place in the general footballing scheme of things than it ever says about Leeds

I think it's less of a fixation and more a source of amusement that they (a majority for sure) remain blissfully unaware that to get back to those 'places' is as much of a dream for them as it is for us, in the here and now.

Moreover, that both clubs (and 12 others) are mostly on an even keel and that players will make informed decisions based on their own career progression and how much money is thrown in front of them and their agents.

Not because half a century ago the interested club had a good side that was winning trophies.

In regards to Leeds, they remind me very much of Villa - failing to get on the gravy train and increase their global profile at a key moment in footballing history and their fans are utterly defiant that it's not all over

It's going to end in tears when they realise that it's more fun supporting their club bouncing between divisions than it is to become Everton, which is their absolute best case scenario (and ours).

 

[Loadicus Trux]

thats a false argument or a smoke screen. Again nobody suggests Brighton is historically bigger club than Leeds, it isnt. But Leeds united today is not Leeds united of 1970. It doesnt have PL squad, Its ground is less modern than many clubs including ours, your new 21st century training facilities are a while away, Brighton has one of the best in the country today. You have just received Cat1 academy status we are a few years ahead of you. You have a great manager, who is also unpredictable and we have a young progressive manager with a different, but still impressive back story.

Its deluded to think (unless they were a child leeds fan) that x,y,z modern 21st century player would walk around our respective training facilities, look at our respective squads and the calibre of player in each today, look at how each club is run........ a billionaire, lifelong fan owner with a young progressive, supportive manager or an owner (not knocking him btw) who is another in a long list of foreign owners, with a maverick genius disciplinarian, whose walked out of many jobs and still think..... you know what, I want Leeds because of its fans or because or what they did in 1970, I'm prepared to play with lower quality players and train in worse facilities just because its the once mighty Leeds.

But your lot truly have that crazyiness deeply ingrained. Our brilliant academy scouting system identified ben White, we've nurtured him over the past few years and put him on a path to get to our first team with progressive steps. (Newport country manger said he's destined for the top and an England call up, before many Leeds fans had even heard of Bielsa). fwiw. The other Centre half we sent to the championship has won Derby player of the year.

There is a lot going right in our club, its modern, hard working, sensible and progressive..... its why your chairman identified us an example to follow. Your deluded fans just dont get it, for them Leeds are comparative to the top 6 and nobody in their right mind couldn't pick Leeds. And its the total arrogance, entitlement and contempt from your ignorant muppet fans, that makes Leeds look stupid. You've earned nothing yet, other than promotion from the championship. Legends in your own minds only.

Great post, everything has been put straight right here.

Close thread.

 

[GREASED WEASEL]

People of the age, say 20 (White only 22) only know leeds as a championship side who havent won anything. Just saying

What do the sky generation know

 

[peterward]

I think it's less of a fixation and more a source of amusement that they (a majority for sure) remain blissfully unaware that to get back to those 'places' is as much of a dream for them as it is for us, in the here and now.

Moreover, that both clubs (and 12 others) are mostly on an even keel and that players will make informed decisions based on their own career progression and how much money is thrown in front of them and their agents.

Not because half a century ago the interested club had a good side that was winning trophies.

In regards to Leeds, they remind me very much of Villa - failing to get on the gravy train and increase their global profile at a key moment in footballing history and their fans are utterly defiant that it's not all over

It's going to end in tears when they realise that it's more fun supporting their club bouncing between divisions than it is to become Everton, which is their absolute best case scenario (and ours).

Nobody knows exactly what will happen, but id guess a dispassionate neutral, gambling on it, would have Leeds with us in the lower half, bottom mini league.And today Leeds would be one of favourites to go down. That may change if they keep Bielsa and recruit well, but the squad as it is, aint good enough

 

[lawros left foot]

I wonder how many Leeds fans Bruce Springsteen had met before he wrote Glory Days?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BneV3MXM_Q&feature=share

 

[BBassic]

White would be a starter at Leeds this season in the Premier League, and (so you tell me on here) is likely to be on the bench at Brighton. Of course he may prefer to stay at Brighton, I fully concede that, but why would it be deluded tto believe that he might want to play? Isn't playing of more interest to a footballer than watching others do so?

More, isn't playing regularly in the Premier League, every week, likely to be more developmental than sitting on the bench? So once again, why is it "deluded" to assert this?

Leeds playing in the Champions League in the near term is a stretch, that I grant you. I don't know if it is "delusional" to believe in it as a possibility in the medium term, but it is optimistic to say the least. But isn't that true of Brighton as well?

For me it's more that the assertion I'm seeing is that White would want to play for Leeds over Brighton because they're Leeds rather than for a guarantee, or lack thereof, of playing time.

Even then I'd hesitate to use the word 'deluded'. Arrogant possibly but honestly I don't particularly care that much one way or the other.

Either we keep a highly rated youngster or we make a bunch of money

 

[peterward]

For me it's more that the assertion I'm seeing is that White would want to play for Leeds over Brighton because they're Leeds rather than for a guarantee, or lack thereof, of playing time.

Even then I'd hesitate to use the word 'deluded'. Arrogant possibly but honestly I don't particularly care that much one way or the other.

Either we keep a highly rated youngster or we make a bunch of money

It goes further than that though, doesnt it.

Id agree, White as their player of year and best central defender probably would have more of a chance of starting regularly. Here he is in a group of much high quality CB than Leeds currently have and ours are experienced at a higher level

But the argument goes, that if he stays here he is ruining his future, he is giving up his chance of an England call up by playing for Brighton, he cannot progress under Potter, only Bielsa holds they keys....... waffle waffle

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

I don't think that is "deluded" no. It is an opinion that you may disagree with, and of course do, and it may be wrong for the matter of that, but why would such a belief be delusional?

But let's concede that point, I don't for a moment, but let's say you are right in this. It doesn't have any relevance to my earlier point. Which is that you are criticising Leeds fans for a belief that they are a "bigger" club than Brighton, even though that is construct that neutral fans accept, and indeed even you yourselves do!

Could you bore off now please.

I know there seems to be some kind of collective circle **** over your posts because you can actually speak English, but you've turned this thread into a "look at me" fest. In my view, you're very welcome here to talk about football, but not to milk attention from those who THINK you're having a debate.

 

[Bladders]

Most of us are dubious we’ll even make the top 10 I imagine. Maybe we need to aim higher!

Personally I think we’ll win the league next year with 114 points then win the CL the following year beating Bayern Munich 11-0


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[Icy Gull]

Personally I think we’ll win the league next year with 114 points then win the CL the following year beating Bayern Munich 11-0


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Were you a Leeds fan in a past life?

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

White would be a starter at Leeds this season in the Premier League, and (so you tell me on here) is likely to be on the bench at Brighton. Of course he may prefer to stay at Brighton, I fully concede that, but why would it be deluded tto believe that he might want to play? Isn't playing of more interest to a footballer than watching others do so?

More, isn't playing regularly in the Premier League, every week, likely to be more developmental than sitting on the bench? So once again, why is it "deluded" to assert this?

Leeds playing in the Champions League in the near term is a stretch, that I grant you. I don't know if it is "delusional" to believe in it as a possibility in the medium term, but it is optimistic to say the least. But isn't that true of Brighton as well?

Playing in the champions league .... A stretch? Congratulations on the understatement of the year. Liverpool and city definitely, Utd most probably which means you’ll be fighting it out with spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal and possibly Leicester. Have you seen their squads? I’ve seen yours and frankly it’s great for the championship but it’s a basket case for the premier. You get 4-6 decent signings and you’ll have a fighting chance of staying up, anything less and it’s going to be carnage!
If your best chance of survival is reliant on a 22 year old CB who has had one season in the championship then you are in a bad way.


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