[Albion] Defence is the problem, not goalscoring

[Barnet Seagull]

The way I see it is that Potter looks to optimise the transitions. In recent weeks, we've not been able to press high up the pitch and force transitions against teams which have sat back and had highly structured defenses. In these situations scoring is always going to be difficult - even the Champions struggle. When you can't break down defences, the transitions become even more important. The challenge is that to force and optimise the transition you need to take risk. i.e. commit men forward to press and then counter at pace. This does leave defence exposed e.g. Webster vs Sheff U and Wolves.
As the team develops, their reading of the game and their positioning within the system will improve. The question is whether that improvement will be enough without further intervention. I look at us as a bit like Klopp's Liverpool in the early days and there are of similarities in the defensive tactical methodology - perhaps not in the players or performances (yet) but plenty of cause for optimism from my armchair.

 

[Weststander]

The way I see it is that Potter looks to optimise the transitions. In recent weeks, we've not been able to press high up the pitch and force transitions against teams which have sat back and had highly structured defenses. In these situations scoring is always going to be difficult - even the Champions struggle. When you can't break down defences, the transitions become even more important. The challenge is that to force and optimise the transition you need to take risk. i.e. commit men forward to press and then counter at pace. This does leave defence exposed e.g. Webster vs Sheff U and Wolves.
As the team develops, their reading of the game and their positioning within the system will improve. The question is whether that improvement will be enough without further intervention. I look at us as a bit like Klopp's Liverpool in the early days and there are of similarities in the defensive tactical methodology - perhaps not in the players or performances (yet) but plenty of cause for optimism from my armchair.

I haven’t seen today’s match yet.

Was there anything else our defence did differently today.

Against SheffU, Dunk seemed to join up with Burn at LB/LWB near the left touchline for much of the game. Leaving Webster almost on his own as a right sided CB. All part of the same to draw out the opposition I suppose, it did and they destroyed us.

Was it more orthodox, tighter back 4 today?

 

[Weststander]

Yeah, just look at Liverpool this season. They can barely keep a clean sheet but have only dropped 2 points all season.

It does help that they’re a scoring machine, 69 in all competitions so far.

At our end of the table, a few clean sheets here and there help the cause. A Bmuff opener or equaliser would’ve been devastating.

 

[Barnet Seagull]

I haven’t seen today’s match yet.

Was there anything else our defence did differently today.

Against SheffU, Dunk seemed to join up with Burn at LB/LWB near the left touchline for much of the game. Leaving Webster almost on his own as a right sided CB. All part of the same to draw out the opposition I suppose, it did and they destroyed us.

Was it more orthodox, tighter back 4 today?

I've only seen the highlights. Defensively I've seen little variation over recent weeks, our out of transition defensive structure is pretty much nailed now.

Attacking wise, the way that we are setup to play through the press seems to vary every game; which as someone who loves the analytical side of football is very exciting.
As you say, against Sheffield United, Dunk was likely out wide to invite the press, generating space to progress the ball because Sheffield United have a heavily stacked centre.
Yesterday Bournemouth played into our hands pressing high but not keeping a high enough d-line.

 

[Machiavelli]

I haven’t seen today’s match yet.

Was there anything else our defence did differently today.

Against SheffU, Dunk seemed to join up with Burn at LB/LWB near the left touchline for much of the game. Leaving Webster almost on his own as a right sided CB. All part of the same to draw out the opposition I suppose, it did and they destroyed us.

Was it more orthodox, tighter back 4 today?

Yesterday just exposed what we knew -- or ought to know -- already: Duffy is not a defender for Potter's system. Duffy is immense in a backs-to-the-wall, deep defensive line that made him shine under Hughton. It's not just that Webster is a better footballer than Duffy, he's far more suited to defending in a high defensive line. Duffy made two glaring errors in the first half, at least one of which should have been punished. He then had to be bailed out a few times by Dunk in the second half, who was quite brilliant again yesterday.
None of this is to say that Webster hasn't made some big blunders and needs to improve his defensive heading, but this is my explanation as to why Potter picks Webster ahead of Duffy.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I haven’t seen today’s match yet.

Was there anything else our defence did differently today.

Against SheffU, Dunk seemed to join up with Burn at LB/LWB near the left touchline for much of the game. Leaving Webster almost on his own as a right sided CB. All part of the same to draw out the opposition I suppose, it did and they destroyed us.

Was it more orthodox, tighter back 4 today?

I thought we completely changed our defensive approach yesterday. We were prepared to go long intentionally as well when under pressure. Ryan kicked long far more goal kicks than he had previously. While we still played it out at times, there was far more emphasis on getting it away than trying to retain possession. Dunk in particular was constantly looking for his classic left to right long diagonal ball, then pretty much hit AJ's boot every time. Dunk and Duffy were more of a pair, so was a tighter back 4, although at times we did leave a lot of space in front of them especially first half. 2nd half thought Potter had words with Bissouma and Propper who stayed far more disciplined in terms of shape in the middle of the park, and we dominated.

Duffy made 2 very big errors that nearly led to goals. It wasn't a performance where you thought he is nailed on to keep Webster out.

 

[Triggaaar]

I have a new theory.

Defending and attacking are not problems but aspects of the game that need to work in harmony

Nah, it'll never catch on.

 

[Mike Small]

Yesterday just exposed what we knew -- or ought to know -- already: Duffy is not a defender for Potter's system. Duffy is immense in a backs-to-the-wall, deep defensive line that made him shine under Hughton. It's not just that Webster is a better footballer than Duffy, he's far more suited to defending in a high defensive line. Duffy made two glaring errors in the first half, at least one of which should have been punished. He then had to be bailed out a few times by Dunk in the second half, who was quite brilliant again yesterday.
None of this is to say that Webster hasn't made some big blunders and needs to improve his defensive heading, but this is my explanation as to why Potter picks Webster ahead of Duffy.

The certainty that Duffy brings when competing for headers helped the team yesterday. He won every header. Webster is pretty weak in this area. I do feel that Duffy has a role and absolutely should have started against Sheffield United for example or at least come on. He would have been perfect for that match. Webster is more error prone than Duffy.

 

[Machiavelli]

The certainty that Duffy brings when competing for headers helped the team yesterday. He won every header. Webster is pretty weak in this area. I do feel that Duffy has a role and absolutely should have started against Sheffield United for example or at least come on. He would have been perfect for that match. Webster is more error prone than Duffy.

I agree that Duffy would have suited Sheff Utd better than Webster. I disagree about the error-prone though. Duffy made several yesterday. I stand by the point I made in my previous post. I understand the attachment to Duffy, after all he's given to the club. I've seen him play for Ireland with a high defensive line too, and it just doesn't suit him.

 

[Normski1989]

A defenders job first and foremost is to defend. Webster is a better all round footballer but at times, a poor defender. He goes on some good runs but his forward passing isn't much better than Duffy's. He often leaves it to Dunk to play the ball up the pitch. Much more comfortable when Duffy is playing.

It might depend on the opposition but I think Duffy would've been more effective against Sheffield United and Palace, when they actually started to attack. Benteke was winning too many long balls, which Duffy is particularly good at preventing.

Glad to see Duffy play yesterday and get a clean sheet.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

 

[Weststander]

I thought we completely changed our defensive approach yesterday. We were prepared to go long intentionally as well when under pressure. Ryan kicked long far more goal kicks than he had previously. While we still played it out at times, there was far more emphasis on getting it away than trying to retain possession. Dunk in particular was constantly looking for his classic left to right long diagonal ball, then pretty much hit AJ's boot every time. Dunk and Duffy were more of a pair, so was a tighter back 4, although at times we did leave a lot of space in front of them especially first half. 2nd half thought Potter had words with Bissouma and Propper who stayed far more disciplined in terms of shape in the middle of the park, and we dominated.

Duffy made 2 very big errors that nearly led to goals. It wasn't a performance where you thought he is nailed on to keep Webster out.

Cheers for filling me in.

Imho we should always mix up our defensive approach within matches, to unsettle opposition game plans. Religiously passing across our 18 yard box under pressure for 90 minutes, helps them.

 

[Nixonator]

Yesterday just exposed what we knew -- or ought to know -- already: Duffy is not a defender for Potter's system. Duffy is immense in a backs-to-the-wall, deep defensive line that made him shine under Hughton. It's not just that Webster is a better footballer than Duffy, he's far more suited to defending in a high defensive line. Duffy made two glaring errors in the first half, at least one of which should have been punished. He then had to be bailed out a few times by Dunk in the second half, who was quite brilliant again yesterday.
None of this is to say that Webster hasn't made some big blunders and needs to improve his defensive heading, but this is my explanation as to why Potter picks Webster ahead of Duffy.

Whilst I more or less agree, it really depends how strictly you want to follow a particular system.

If the aim is to be a fluid passing team 100% of the time, then Duffy is not suited. However, there have been plenty of times that Duffy could have chosen the easy option, to clear his lines but instead chose to attempt possession retention and got caught. I'm pretty sure you can classify almost all of his errors in that category. So it's a case of balancing individual strengths/weaknesses against the discipline of following a strict system.

The problem is of course that opposition coaches/managers are not stupid and in the case of a Dunk+Duffy partnership in a back 4, within this system, they can stifle us if they target Dunk and make sure he has very little time on the ball whilst leaving Duffy with as much possession of the ball as he likes. With Webster in the team it's different because he is comfortable in possession and can drive forward.

 

[BLOCK F]

Whilst I more or less agree, it really depends how strictly you want to follow a particular system.

If the aim is to be a fluid passing team 100% of the time, then Duffy is not suited. However, there have been plenty of times that Duffy could have chosen the easy option, to clear his lines but instead chose to attempt possession retention and got caught. I'm pretty sure you can classify almost all of his errors in that category. So it's a case of balancing individual strengths/weaknesses against the discipline of following a strict system.


The problem is of course that opposition coaches/managers are not stupid and in the case of a Dunk+Duffy partnership in a back 4, within this system, they can stifle us if they target Dunk and make sure he has very little time on the ball whilst leaving Duffy with as much possession of the ball as he likes. With Webster in the team it's different because he is comfortable in possession and can drive forward.

Try and convince 'Tony Meola' of this. He seems convinced Adam Webster is just a piss poor footballer or at least that is how his constant posts come over!