Day 9 - Wed 16th Feb - THE WHEELS ON THE BUS...

[The Large One]

This is ultra vires at present. Railway stations cost £5 million to build.

The transport consultant at the Inquiry said £30m.

Wilts, 17,000 people would not leaving fom one platform at Falmer station. A much smaller number would leave from two platforms. For once (and I am not going to make a habit of this), I agree with Percy about the train business. It is a detail to iron out, but I suspect that people coming in from Haywards Heath and station to the north would be encouraged to go via Lewes.

This would be good for them, because:

a) a fair number of people would be coming from Brighton. This includes city-dwellers and people from west of Brighton.
b) there are more decent pubs next to Lewes Station than there are next to Brighton Station.

 

[The Large One]

Perhaps we could all chip in and get him a prostitute. Then he might piss off and leave us alone.

Cow, sheep or chicken?

 

[CHAPPERS]

Who's gonna be there on Tuesday?

 

[Publius Ovidius]

. For once (and I am not going to make a habit of this), I agree with Percy about the train business. .

JUDAS

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Re: Re: Re: Public Inquiry - Day Nine Report

Unfortunately with the road system that you have in Brighton, it appears (from previous discussions) that the infrastructure could not handle the sheer amount of people on buses, as the inner roads are narrow and small, rather than able to cope with a large increment in traffic.

Brighton can cope with vast numbers of people using buses. As, indeed, can Reading.

The example given at the Inquiry wasn't, however, about a stadium in Brighton. It was for a stadium at Upper Beeding Cement Works, which is served by one single-carriageway road, out in the countryside. The site is more than eight miles from Brighton City Centre. Road widening is out of the question, because of costs and the fact that the road runs through the future National Park and the flood plain of the River Adur.

Most of the site is in Horsham District, which is the local authority area next door but one to Brighton & Hove.

 

[perseus]

The roads are worse in Brighton.

Virtually everybody (70%) going to Sheepcote by car would turn off at Falmer. The road over the downs is about the same. Both are inadequate.

The Sheepcote road is an AONB though. The Beeding road is not.

Both sites are neither suitable or desirable. Both are out on a limb.

 

[Lady Bracknell]

Perhaps we could all chip in and get him a prostitute. Then he might piss off and leave us alone.

Farmer Carr?

Score in a brothel? About as likely as getting 17,500 people back on a bus from Beeding.

 

[CHAPPERS]

So who's going to be there on TUESDAY?

 

[Easy 10]

Dunno about TUESDAY, but I might pitch up on THURSDAY.
Anyone know the order of play for next week ?

 

[Wilts]

Wilts, has it always been as it is now? It's just I seem to remember when it was first built the football phone-ins seemed to be absolutely blitzed with callers complaining about how long it took to get away from. And sure enough, the first time I went there I was sat for ages in my car, unable to even get out of the car park.

Last couple of visits have been much better though. How long did it take for them to get it right - although I do still think it's one of the slower grounds to get away from!

It took around a year to get it right - while the spur road to the A33/M4 was being built it was a bit of a nightmare because the ground was ready before the road!

While we were in Division Two (League One or whatever!) it wasn't much of a problem because IIRC there were only 8 crowds over 20,000 in two seasons. As soon as we knew that we'd be close to Division One football, we knew we'd have to get the infrastructure perfect and now everything is fine and dandy. The only issue now is Bank Holidays when bus drivers refuse to work. The club is working on that though at the moment!

Originally posted by The Large One
Wilts, 17,000 people would not leaving fom one platform at Falmer station. A much smaller number would leave from two platforms. For once (and I am not going to make a habit of this), I agree with Percy about the train business. It is a detail to iron out, but I suspect that people coming in from Haywards Heath and station to the north would be encouraged to go via Lewes.

This would be good for them, because:

a) a fair number of people would be coming from Brighton. This includes city-dwellers and people from west of Brighton.
b) there are more decent pubs next to Lewes Station than there are next to Brighton Station.

I agree with you in principle, that there are two sides to the train station possible of carrying many passengers and lightening the load on one side, but as with Bolton (who rely on Horwich Parkway station for the same thing), you'll find that so many people live in one direction (Bolton and Manchester is southbound, Preston northbound), that instead of 8,500 on both sides, it'll be more like 15,000 on one side and 2,000 on the other! If we had a station (as is planned for 2010 ish) at the Madejski, it'd be the same, as only around 3,000 or so would travel down to Basingstoke, with the rest going back to Reading and Wokingham, and to the central train station to go elsewhere from there.

Have any of the anti-Falmer brigade asked BHA for Albion fan dispersement statistics, to show exactly how many fans would travel in either direction after the match? (i.e. from a survey based on where they live).

 

[Rangdo]

Have any of the anti-Falmer brigade asked BHA for Albion fan dispersement statistics, to show exactly how many fans would travel in either direction after the match? (i.e. from a survey based on where they live).

From Upper Beeding it would be about 99% going South since there isn't a lot North or any decent roads to get you anywhere.

 

[perseus]

Have any of the anti-Falmer brigade asked BHA for Albion fan dispersement statistics, to show exactly how many fans would travel in either direction after the match? (i.e. from a survey based on where they live).

This I would have thought would number one on the Albion's list.

The convenience of getting to the stadium is the number one business requirement, as well as being planning policy and common sense.

Elm Park at Reading was nearly the worst, so I expect anything would be an improvement.

The Goldstone was easy to get to by train, but parking became increasingly difficult. Now it would be impossible.

Sheepcote is right out on a limb (not as bad as Beeding Cement Works, but nobody in their right mind would take that location seriously) but Sheepcote is so awkward to get to, I think it it knocks out about 20% of the core support straight away. Priestfield would be almost as quick.

Some people say that with Withdean. With the palaver of getting tickets at Withdean, some people actually preferred Priestfield which gives some idea just how bad Withdean is.

Withdean is quite convenient to get to by train. Just not big enough.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The City Council will be presenting transport evidence which uses information from the Albion's ticketing database about where real supporters actually live.

The evidence from the Club is that, if the ONLY issue was "How many people live close to the ground?", the main contenders would come out in this order:-

1. Withdean
2. Shoreham Harbour
3. Toads Hole Valley
4. Sheepcote Valley
5. Falmer
6. Shoreham Airport

Obviously, that isn't the only issue.

 

[Curious Orange]

The City Council will be presenting transport evidence which uses information from the Albion's ticketing database about where real supporters actually live.

The evidence from the Club is that, if the ONLY issue was "How many people live close to the ground?", the main contenders would come out in this order:-

1. Withdean
2. Shoreham Harbour
3. Toads Hole Valley
4. Sheepcote Valley
5. Falmer
6. Shoreham Airport

Obviously, that isn't the only issue.

Another one being how many fans don't live within walking distance?

At least one then!!

 

[perseus]

The pertinent thing is how long would it take to get to the stadium from where you live.

Falmer from the centre of Brighton by train would be 10-15 minutes depending on the walk to the station.

Sheepcote by bus would be 30-40 minutes at least.

Shoreham to Falmer by train would take about 20 minutes.
Shoreham to Falmer by train and bus would take over an hour in ideal circumstances.

We all know when you use road transport rather than rail, ideal circumstances are not what you remember, it is when it goes wrong. It could be two hours with road works etc.

I get the impression that Brighton is going to snarl to a halt just by the weight of traffic one day. The only sensible thing to relieve the congestion would be not to build anything in the wrong place that contributes to the mayhem.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Sheepcote by bus would be 30-40 minutes at least.

I assume that this your estimate of the time from Shoreham.

Brighton City Centre to a bus stop within walking distance of Sheepcote Valley (assuming the stadium site is at the southern end of the valley) is 12-16 minutes, depending on which route you take. Bus lanes help.

Of course, if everybody wanted to use the bus, there wouldn't be enough seats. And there aren't enough buses available to provide all the extra services that would be necessary.

 

[perseus]

I assume that this your estimate of the time from Shoreham.

Brighton City Centre to a bus stop within walking distance of Sheepcote Valley (assuming the stadium site is at the southern end of the valley) is 12-16 minutes, depending on which route you take. Bus lanes help.

Of course, if everybody wanted to use the bus, there wouldn't be enough seats. And there aren't enough buses available to provide all the extra services that would be necessary.

That was by estimate last time I got stuck in a traffic jam in Brighton, It took just under an hour from Preston Park to the ###### Pier.

I was thinking of Brighton station to Sheepcote. Perhaps 20 minutes on a good day? It has all changed since I last went to Brighton by car or bus.

I think the A259 would be excessively congested. I would tend to park in Madeira Drive and walk up, rather than take the Falmer road. Or train to Brighton station and then a bus (if it only took 16 minutes plus waiting times, plus traffic jams). Sheepcote does not seem to be as terrible as it first appears.

In West Sussex, it is the roads policy to get the through traffic on to the A27 ASAP. Is this the same in East Sussex? This means the Sheepcote traffic would be encouraged to go through Falmer. This means over the downs road through the AONB.