Seagullible
Super Keeper
tainan said:
really, now that's clever
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Day 5 - Wed 9th Feb - SAFETY FIRST
- Thread starter Marc
- Start date
really, now that's clever
RexCathedra
Aurea Mediocritas
If any NIBMYS in your neck of the woods find out about the underground facilities in Lillehammer, even Toad Hole Valley won't be deep enough.....
Bat-windscreen collisions, nothing -- they'll be sitting in your laps...
Bat-windscreen collisions, nothing -- they'll be sitting in your laps...
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Beach Hut
Brighton Bhuna Boy
Curious Orange said:
Guildford Cathedral is a very ugly building, nearly as bad as Coventry Cathedral.
Lord Bracknell
On fire
Re: Inquiry Update: Hour Report, Day 2
This will be followed by evidence from the Albions's ecology expert. Plenty of stuff about how little furry animals will be displaced if a road is built on to the Shoreham Airport site.
And - if there's time - the Albion's planning expert will appear.
PS. In the context of Shoreham Airport, we LIKE little furry animals. They are not like the bats at Falmer, which we DON'T LIKE.
Thursday will start with Martin Perry being cross-examined about costs. It will be interesting to see what happens, because the Club and Lewes District Council's expert have managed to produce a jointly agreed statement about costs at Sheepcote Valley and Toads Hole Valley (and how they compare with costs at Falmer).CrabtreeBHA said:
This will be followed by evidence from the Albions's ecology expert. Plenty of stuff about how little furry animals will be displaced if a road is built on to the Shoreham Airport site.
And - if there's time - the Albion's planning expert will appear.
PS. In the context of Shoreham Airport, we LIKE little furry animals. They are not like the bats at Falmer, which we DON'T LIKE.
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eastlondonseagull
Well-known member
Re: Re: Inquiry Update: Hour Report, Day 2
Lord Bracknell said:
The Large One
Who's Next?
Re: Re: Inquiry Update: Hour Report, Day 2
Surely to the contrary. Bats at Falmer would love buildings, and would therefore ADORE a stadium in which to hang out.Lord Bracknell said:PS. In the context of Shoreham Airport, we LIKE little furry animals. They are not like the bats at Falmer, which we DON'T LIKE.
Easy 10
Brain dead MUG SHEEP
Re: Re: Inquiry Update: Hour Report, Day 2
I like the squirming.
I've ALWAYS liked little furry animals. I wrap them in sellotape and put them up my bum.Lord Bracknell said:
I like the squirming.
Screaming J
He'll put a spell on you
Crabtree reported:-
"the NIMBY Hopkins piped up with "the Airport is already an eyesore on the AONB"
and
"Beeding Cement Works: NIMBY Hopkins agreed it was already a Blot on the Landscape as is and asked if the current A27 cits through an AONB...it does and Mr Hyland agreed."
Surely we should use these as pro Falmer arguments; based on the premis that the current AONB status is nothing but utter hogshite; given that it is littered with cement works, airports et al?
"the NIMBY Hopkins piped up with "the Airport is already an eyesore on the AONB"
and
"Beeding Cement Works: NIMBY Hopkins agreed it was already a Blot on the Landscape as is and asked if the current A27 cits through an AONB...it does and Mr Hyland agreed."
Surely we should use these as pro Falmer arguments; based on the premis that the current AONB status is nothing but utter hogshite; given that it is littered with cement works, airports et al?
Beach Hut
Brighton Bhuna Boy
Re: Re: Re: Inquiry Update: Hour Report, Day 2
Try Ernest up ya bum - he is desperate to score
Easy 10 said:
Try Ernest up ya bum - he is desperate to score
Easy 10
Brain dead MUG SHEEP
Not a chance. Ernest is too BRUTAL.
ShorehamGull
He's now back
Hoping to be there tomorrow
Four legs good.
Except the airport authorities maintain that Ratty does not exist any more and went out with a shotgun to make sure. They are allowed to do this as they maintain that Ratty (the one in the book) is a danger to aircraft landing.
Never mind that the NIMBYs cannot be bothered to look at the map to find out where the AONB boundaries really are.
Except the airport authorities maintain that Ratty does not exist any more and went out with a shotgun to make sure. They are allowed to do this as they maintain that Ratty (the one in the book) is a danger to aircraft landing.
Never mind that the NIMBYs cannot be bothered to look at the map to find out where the AONB boundaries really are.
Lord Bracknell
On fire
My latest daily report ...
We are now more than a week into the resumed Public Inquiry. The mountain of paper continues to grow, as the various parties submit all sorts of documentation to support their evidence.
Things almost got out of hand on day five as the Inspector struggled with a very large, double sided map, while trying to keep up with the other task that he had been set – to inspect a series of site plans and photographs that would enable him to reach some conclusions about the impact on the landscape that a stadium might bring to ten different sites scattered across the conurbation and beyond.
‘I’m glad I’m in Brighton’, he said at one point. ‘At least I know that the sea is at the bottom of all the maps’.
John Hyland was the witness – appearing on behalf of the Albion to take the Inquiry through the process he called ‘visual impact assessment’. Having survived three days of transport jargon, everyone had a new language to learn today. If a dictionary had been handed out, we’d have found ‘ZVIs’ on the last page. ‘Zones of Visual Influence’, since you ask. ‘Visual envelopes’ also seemed to be important if a ‘landscape character assessment’ was going to achieve ‘best fit’.
These exercises have been done before. I guess some people earn a steady income doing them. We learned that an ‘Urban Fringe Study’ (don’t ask) had recommended years ago that the view from the downs, south of Falmer, might be improved by some tree planting along the edge of Village Way. If that had gone ahead, the stadium site would now be behind a tall thick hedge and no-one would now be complaining that putting a stadium behind the hedge would spoil the view.
We also learned that another ‘UFS’ (work it out for yourself) had suggested, in 1995, that Toads Hole Valley should be left untouched, because it was ‘one of the few places along the A27 where the drama of the broad sweeping open valley can be retained’. In other words, it wasn’t the place for a stadium to sit next to a five storey building 100 metres wide and 100 metres long.
Unsurprisingly, for anyone who has been following the proceedings of the last week, Mr Hyland’s conclusion was that Falmer was the best site for a stadium, Sheepcote Valley wasn’t too bad, and the rest ranged from no-brainers to sites which would have a significant impact on nearby sensitive areas. Cross-examination of Mr Hyland by the various parties simply demonstrated that not everyone can agree. Or maybe that some people just don’t want to agree.
After lunch, we had Richard Hebberd, the Albion’s safety expert, who added much to what Mark Leigh had earlier said about transport. His concerns were not so much about how people would get to matches as how they would all get out safely at the end of the game.
22,000 people all want to leave at the same time. We learned that when he was a senior police officer in charge of operations at places like Highbury or Wembley, he was able to take simple decisions to close roads when it seemed necessary at the time. These days, the local council has to approve a road closure order and it’s not keen on doing that if it means holding up the traffic on main roads.
So he wasn’t happy about a stadium that would disgorge thousands of pedestrians on to King George VI Avenue after a game at Toads Hole Valley. Indeed, he considered that safety could only be assured if there was a very wide footbridge or subway to let them cross the road safely. And that would be very expensive indeed.
It would be just as bad at Waterhall, where a new (and very expensive) footbridge across the A27 would be needed, linking the stadium with Mill Road, to avoid conflict with vehicles using the existing road underpass.
Beeding Cement Works would be ‘intrinsically unsafe’. Withdean would be worse. With 22,000 people leaving the ground and most of them aiming for the London Road, it would be positively dangerous, to the point at which there would be a serious risk of people being crushed, even if substantial sums were spend on major changes to the Tongdean Lane railway bridge.
A stadium at Shoreham Harbour would need the A259 to be closed on matchdays, and there would be issues about getting emergency services safely to any matchday incident south of the stadium. Corals Greyhound stadium would only work if Nevill Road was closed.
Sheepcote Valley looked as though it might work safely, provided the site was designed to allow people to leave games via a number of different walking routes. But that went hand in hand with allowing the free-for-all parking system that Mark Leigh had suggested would cause so many problems.
Safety and transport are obviously linked. Richard Hebberd organises park and ride for the Club, and he gave a detailed breakdown of the options for all the sites that are being considered. It was important to get operational details right. We heard that one suggestion that had been put forward could easily result in some passengers being left behind, or difficult decisions having to be made by drivers. Richard illustrated this with great delicacy. ‘You’re a fit fellow, Mr Clay. I’m afraid you’ll have to walk. Don’t worry, Mr Perry, you’re a fatter fellow, there’s a seat for you on the bus’.
We also heard much more about parking management – a topic that we have already seen could be critical in forming the Inspector’s final judgement.
The first witness on Thursday will be Martin Perry, who returns to be cross-examined on the subject of stadium costs. At the very end of Wednesday’s session, he came into the Council Chamber, smiling and clutching an armful of papers. This, it turned out, was the much anticipated joint statement agreed between the Football Club and Lewes District Council on Costs and Affordability. Yes, that’s right – agreed!
What it says will, no doubt, be revealed in my next report. In the meantime, it has been added to the mountain of Inquiry documentation.
We are now more than a week into the resumed Public Inquiry. The mountain of paper continues to grow, as the various parties submit all sorts of documentation to support their evidence.
Things almost got out of hand on day five as the Inspector struggled with a very large, double sided map, while trying to keep up with the other task that he had been set – to inspect a series of site plans and photographs that would enable him to reach some conclusions about the impact on the landscape that a stadium might bring to ten different sites scattered across the conurbation and beyond.
‘I’m glad I’m in Brighton’, he said at one point. ‘At least I know that the sea is at the bottom of all the maps’.
John Hyland was the witness – appearing on behalf of the Albion to take the Inquiry through the process he called ‘visual impact assessment’. Having survived three days of transport jargon, everyone had a new language to learn today. If a dictionary had been handed out, we’d have found ‘ZVIs’ on the last page. ‘Zones of Visual Influence’, since you ask. ‘Visual envelopes’ also seemed to be important if a ‘landscape character assessment’ was going to achieve ‘best fit’.
These exercises have been done before. I guess some people earn a steady income doing them. We learned that an ‘Urban Fringe Study’ (don’t ask) had recommended years ago that the view from the downs, south of Falmer, might be improved by some tree planting along the edge of Village Way. If that had gone ahead, the stadium site would now be behind a tall thick hedge and no-one would now be complaining that putting a stadium behind the hedge would spoil the view.
We also learned that another ‘UFS’ (work it out for yourself) had suggested, in 1995, that Toads Hole Valley should be left untouched, because it was ‘one of the few places along the A27 where the drama of the broad sweeping open valley can be retained’. In other words, it wasn’t the place for a stadium to sit next to a five storey building 100 metres wide and 100 metres long.
Unsurprisingly, for anyone who has been following the proceedings of the last week, Mr Hyland’s conclusion was that Falmer was the best site for a stadium, Sheepcote Valley wasn’t too bad, and the rest ranged from no-brainers to sites which would have a significant impact on nearby sensitive areas. Cross-examination of Mr Hyland by the various parties simply demonstrated that not everyone can agree. Or maybe that some people just don’t want to agree.
After lunch, we had Richard Hebberd, the Albion’s safety expert, who added much to what Mark Leigh had earlier said about transport. His concerns were not so much about how people would get to matches as how they would all get out safely at the end of the game.
22,000 people all want to leave at the same time. We learned that when he was a senior police officer in charge of operations at places like Highbury or Wembley, he was able to take simple decisions to close roads when it seemed necessary at the time. These days, the local council has to approve a road closure order and it’s not keen on doing that if it means holding up the traffic on main roads.
So he wasn’t happy about a stadium that would disgorge thousands of pedestrians on to King George VI Avenue after a game at Toads Hole Valley. Indeed, he considered that safety could only be assured if there was a very wide footbridge or subway to let them cross the road safely. And that would be very expensive indeed.
It would be just as bad at Waterhall, where a new (and very expensive) footbridge across the A27 would be needed, linking the stadium with Mill Road, to avoid conflict with vehicles using the existing road underpass.
Beeding Cement Works would be ‘intrinsically unsafe’. Withdean would be worse. With 22,000 people leaving the ground and most of them aiming for the London Road, it would be positively dangerous, to the point at which there would be a serious risk of people being crushed, even if substantial sums were spend on major changes to the Tongdean Lane railway bridge.
A stadium at Shoreham Harbour would need the A259 to be closed on matchdays, and there would be issues about getting emergency services safely to any matchday incident south of the stadium. Corals Greyhound stadium would only work if Nevill Road was closed.
Sheepcote Valley looked as though it might work safely, provided the site was designed to allow people to leave games via a number of different walking routes. But that went hand in hand with allowing the free-for-all parking system that Mark Leigh had suggested would cause so many problems.
Safety and transport are obviously linked. Richard Hebberd organises park and ride for the Club, and he gave a detailed breakdown of the options for all the sites that are being considered. It was important to get operational details right. We heard that one suggestion that had been put forward could easily result in some passengers being left behind, or difficult decisions having to be made by drivers. Richard illustrated this with great delicacy. ‘You’re a fit fellow, Mr Clay. I’m afraid you’ll have to walk. Don’t worry, Mr Perry, you’re a fatter fellow, there’s a seat for you on the bus’.
We also heard much more about parking management – a topic that we have already seen could be critical in forming the Inspector’s final judgement.
The first witness on Thursday will be Martin Perry, who returns to be cross-examined on the subject of stadium costs. At the very end of Wednesday’s session, he came into the Council Chamber, smiling and clutching an armful of papers. This, it turned out, was the much anticipated joint statement agreed between the Football Club and Lewes District Council on Costs and Affordability. Yes, that’s right – agreed!
What it says will, no doubt, be revealed in my next report. In the meantime, it has been added to the mountain of Inquiry documentation.
dougdeep
New member
The bit about some people not wanting to agree, just about sums this up. Falmer is the only site in Brighton that is suitable. FACT!
Jam The Man
Well-known member
A27T... The 'T' means 'Trunk'
Thank you Crabbers, Easy, Lord B etc. for keeping us so informed. Having just re-read this thread, the same thought as earlier still strikes me: that we are absolutely killing the NIMBYs at the moment. Obviously they haven't presented their evidence yet, but ours seems to be making a very, very solid case for Falmer (which after all IS the only viable site).
Thanks for keeping us up to date with all this.
One thing strikes me as really odd about the whole argument.
Surely, this is about placing the stadium at a site which has an adverse impact on as few people as possible. THV and Sheepcote Valley seem to be the only vaguely viable alternatives to Falmer and yet they are both bordered by thousands of people. How many live in that supposedly picturesque little village with the dual-carriageway through it? Comparatively, a handful.
The decision is a no-brainer.
(Ok, there is the university....but digs you live in for a couple of years should hardly be considered the same as people's permanent homes).
One thing strikes me as really odd about the whole argument.
Surely, this is about placing the stadium at a site which has an adverse impact on as few people as possible. THV and Sheepcote Valley seem to be the only vaguely viable alternatives to Falmer and yet they are both bordered by thousands of people. How many live in that supposedly picturesque little village with the dual-carriageway through it? Comparatively, a handful.
The decision is a no-brainer.
(Ok, there is the university....but digs you live in for a couple of years should hardly be considered the same as people's permanent homes).
Easy 10
Brain dead MUG SHEEP
Actually Lord B, I think you should start your OWN threads with these daily reports, rather than tucking them away as a reply on another thread. They're far too valuable to be hidden away on other Inquiry threads where they could be missed.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
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