Day 17 - Tue 8th Mar - BACK OF A FAG PACKET

[The Oldman]

Trailer for Inquiry Report Day 17, Tuesday

Psst! Want Toads Hall Valley for a Stadium Sir? Only £4.5 million plus it will save you over £6 million compared to building at Falmer. Go on you know it makes sense.
Oh yes and a little development on the side by me will do nicely.
That’s how the owners of THV opened their case at the Inquiry Today.

Now I don’t want to steal Lord B or Shoreham Gull’s thunder so wait for their detailed reports but you would want to know that if this offer seems too good to be true then it probably is. Or as our Jonathan Clay carefully worked out it would cost us £19 million more to go THV as opposed to Falmer. I am sure Lord B will fill in the details so keep looking.

Oh. And another opposition witness goes missing. This time not because he is sick but because his Father is. Yet again suggestions were made that the Inquiry be delayed to hear this evidence. The Inspector not best pleased and our lot spitting Blood.

So read the full reports. I need some grub after an exciting day at the Town Hall.

 

[dougdeep]

Wish I could lounge around all day.

 

[The Oldman]

I am the original Lounge Lizard Doug!

 

[Curious Orange]

Gosh, isn't the wait exciting!!

 

[ShorehamGull]

Inquiry day 17 (Tuesday) 8/3/2005
Toad in the Hole Valley cook book – not written by Delia “let’s be avin you” Smith

Here we are again after a short break to conclude our final week before the inquiry adjourns ready for the Easter holidays.
For a half nine start I was very wide awake this morning and not having to hold my eyes open with matchsticks.
Today we had the privilege of the people speaking on behalf of the Cooks estates (the owners of Toad Hole Valley).
On previous research and from speaking to other people I knew a little about what sort of evidence they were going to put across and what their aim for the development would be.
Mr Blaney of Cooks estates was first to raise the curtain on today’s comedy performance, and started his case on supporting development for Toad’s Hole Valley.
Mr Blaney started his evidence for Toad’s Hole by going through the criteria set out in the secretary of states letter dated 26 July 2004. Mr Blaney put an answer of “yes” by each criteria and then went on to explain his answer in more detail.
Basically Mr Blaney only spoke for about 15 minutes and was pretty boring compared to what we were in for next.
Mr Blaney stood down and called his first witness, a Mr Stiles (the director of Stiles Harold and Williams), he reminded me when he had his glasses on a cross between Sgt Bilko and Eric Morecombe, just to look at him made me laugh.

Mr Stiles was giving his evidence just as private Godfrey from the Nimby side walks in after finishing guard duty at Falmer, he did not look to happy as the Maggie Thatcher look-a-like was in his usual seat, he just walked past her and slumps down in another chair to continued his attempt to break the world record for sleeping.
Mr Stiles puts out his evidence which was mainly based on the costing of the Toad Hole site, and how many millions the club would have to pay out to purchase the land.
Mr Stiles said that the club can have about 9 hectares of the site at a price of £500.000 per hectare, yes you could say that was a bit of a shock to everyone especially Martin Perry.
Mr Stiles continued with his figures show minus a calculator, and eventually came out with a figure for the whole project of £47.3 million.

Mr Clay cross examined Mr Stiles on his figures, and caught on to the fact that all that cooks estates were interested in was making lots of money from the football club.
Battles went on between Mr Clay and Mr Stiles, and on several occasions Mr Stiles refused to give a plain and simple answers of “yes” or “no” to what were quite easy questions.
Mr Clay suggested that all Mr Stiles wanted for the site is to be used as some sort of Trojan horse for development, a comment that was course rejected by Mr Stiles.
WE KNOW WHAT THEY ARE UP TO, WELL DONE MR CLAY.
You could say that Jonathan Clay had another good day because he basically had Mr Stiles on the bottom of his shinny shoes for the rest of the day where he had trodden him into the ground so much.
Mr Clay finished his flooring of Mr Stiles and then the mother of the inquiry Miss McPherson (B&H City Council) finishes off the scraps of Mr Stiles that Mr Clay had left for her.

Miss McPherson did indeed finish Mr Stiles off with a series of questions, for which at this point I think Mr Stiles wanted his mummy.

Mr Blaney’s next witness was Mr Russell to talk about landscaping of the Toad’s Hole Valley area. He gave his evidence and suggested that development at THV would not have any visual impact on the download area and would not be seen by local residence. Mr Russell also suggested that the stadium design does not need to be so complex and to save damaging the visual impact they could take away 2500 seats from the design of the main stand and reduce its overall size and of course reduce the overall capacity.
We broke for lunch at this point where everyone was looking at the clock and hoping it would strike one o’clock as soon as possible, even Mr Brier wanted to break early to get to KFC before all the Chicken burgers sold out.
After lunch Mr Clay cross examined Mr Russell in the same manner that he questioned Mr Stiles. Mr Russell put up a reasonable fight but soon was finding it difficult to answer easy questions. Mr Russell was getting quite annoyed by Mr Clay's way of questioning and made a few remarks to one of his colleagues without anyone else hearing what was said. He even made a quiet remark about the inspector when he was requested to talk into the microphone properly. You could say that Mr Russell was losing his battle with Mr Clay from all angles.
Mr Clay questioned Mr Russell on his evidence for which for me the answers were not very convincing, so I don’t know what the inspector was thinking.
I took my chance to have my look around the room, where I saw private Godfrey and Maggie Thatcher were both snoring their Nimby heads off. There was Lord B and Gaffer fixed on the conversation and writing notes. Of course I was doing the same but at this point I was looking around the room at who I could take the fun of next and of course have the occasional glance a Sweet young Megan who was sitting their writing notes or she might of been signing autographs, I can’t remember.
Miss McPherson had her chance to show Mr Russell what see could do before we broke for afternoon break and a chance to taste the lovely delights of the coffee machine.
Sir Dick Knight showed up to listen into what was going on, but I think he was really there to get some money off of Martin Perry to get a Coffee – Times much be hard.
Mr Carpenter was the next witness for Cooks estates, he was to talk about planning even though his evidence did not last very long.
At this point private Godfrey had gone back to do guard duty at Falmer, but Maggie Thatcher, Sgt Bilko and the other Nimby muppets were still there for us to make faces at.
Mr Carpenter put his evidence across about his views on Toad’s Hole Valley and goes on about planning issues from where I got lost.
Back again tomorrow for another 9:30 start, I think I will take a bowl, some milk and a packet of shredded wheat to last me until morning break and sit there is my night clothes. Perhaps I will take a pillow and a blanket just to be safe and have to fight others for the most comfortable seat.
As I always mention, Megan looked her usual beautiful self today, I am so pleased she is on our side, she does a great job for us along with the rest our inquiry team.

SG News at almost Eleven, Brighton Town Hall

 

[The Clown of Pevensey Bay]

Well done SG, sir.

Does anyone know what Megan made of the piece about her in the Millwall programme?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Excellent report, SG. I haven't even started writing mine yet.

But thanks for not pinching my spin on Mr Stiles' performance (which will appear somewhere in my full report of the day's proceedings).

In the meanwhile, here's my judgement ...

Watching Robert Stiles trying to score points off the Albion was like watching Swindon Town take penalties. We thought they were skilled professionals, but somehow they couldn't put the ball where it mattered.

 

[ShorehamGull]

Well done SG, sir.

Does anyone know what Megan made of the piece about her in the Millwall programme?

Martin Perry gave her a programme for her to keep, plus I asked her last week about it, she just went all red in the face and smiled.
She seems to be handling the fame quite well, but if you want her autograph you will have to ask her.

 

[Rangdo]

Excellent report, SG. I haven't even started writing mine yet.

But thanks for not pinching my spin on Mr Stiles' performance (which will appear somewhere in my full report of the day's proceedings).

In the meanwhile, here's my judgement ...

Watching Robert Stiles trying to score points off the Albion was like watching Swindon Town take penalties. We thought they were skilled professionals, but somehow they couldn't put the ball where it mattered.

So he was the Tommy Mooney of the property development world?

 

[ShorehamGull]

Excellent report, SG. I haven't even started writing mine yet.

But thanks for not pinching my spin on Mr Stiles' performance (which will appear somewhere in my full report of the day's proceedings).

In the meanwhile, here's my judgement ...

Watching Robert Stiles trying to score points off the Albion was like watching Swindon Town take penalties. We thought they were skilled professionals, but somehow they couldn't put the ball where it mattered.

Yes I remembered what you said, and considered it when writing up my report.

Are you going to include the business conerning Mr Ellis in your report? I forgot

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Here it is ...


After a very long weekend break, the Inquiry resumed on Tuesday with the first proper appearance of the representatives of J W Cook Estates Ltd, and Pecla Investments Ltd, the owners of Toads Hole Valley. They had been seen early on, occupying seats in the public gallery, but had been absent from the main arena and, until today, hadn’t uttered a word.

After a few introductory words from their legal representative, Mr Blaney, their first key witness, Robert Stiles, Director of Stiles Harold Williams, Surveyors and Valuers, took the witness stand.

Mr Stiles was there to demonstrate that acquisition of Toads Hole Valley was a realistic proposition and that a stadium could be built there without incurring unaffordable development costs. As we shall see, he failed.

He did, however, set out the terms on which the Albion might be allowed to move there. A couple of options were on offer. The Club could have the site for a 125 year lease, at a peppercorn rent (plus a premium payment up front of £500,000 a hectare), subject to agreeing to incur all of the development costs, including funding all of the necessary roadworks and other infrastructure costs.

Alternatively, subject to planning permission being given for an adjacent business development and the Albion funding the full infrastructure costs of the whole development, the Club could have 8 hectares of land for a stadium and parking, alongside the business space.

Either of these options, said Mr Stiles, would be cheaper than Falmer.

This looked to be a tremendously attractive deal. Until, under questioning from Jonathan Clay, the details became apparent and the whole argument fell apart.

What was this about Toads Hole Valley being cheaper than Falmer? Where were the figures? Actually, they were on a piece of paper that Mr Stiles had brought with him to the Inquiry this very day. They were different figures from the ones that had been prepared by the Club’s professional cost consultants earlier at the Inquiry. They were different from the figures prepared by Lewes District Council’s cost consultants as well.

In fact, as the details unfolded, it emerged that Mr Stiles’ costings were about £19.4 million less than the costs that Martin Perry had previously put forward. Extraordinary. How come?

Well, for a start, Mr Stiles believed that a stadium and parking would fit on a site of 8 hectares, not the 11 hectares that the Club considered necessary – “a total waste of land”, said Mr Stiles. There would be no community facilities. There was no need for an “iconic” stadium. There would be no protection of the aquifer. Only 700 parking spaces would be needed, not 1,467. The road access costs would be negligible. Off-site road improvements weren’t included. There was no allowance for inflation between now and the construction of the stadium. And although reduced on-site parking was part of Mr Stiles’ proposals, his project costs didn’t include the costs of providing the extra park and ride facilities that he agreed would be necessary.

But, no matter, Mr Stiles considered that his cut-price stadium would be affordable. He even claimed that it would bring public benefits, because not building a stadium in Falmer would “free up land for the University to build on and would free up grants that could be used elsewhere”. Or, to put it another way, the Albion wouldn’t benefit from them. Nor would the people of East Brighton. Marvellous.

It was all very surreal. But nowhere near as surreal as other matters that emerged from the questioning. Why had Mr Stiles only produced his cost estimates today, when the parties to the Inquiry had been asked to exchange evidence in early January? This meant that Martin Perry (whose evidence had already been given) had been denied the opportunity to challenge Mr Stiles’ figures. And why had Cook Estates not challenged Martin Perry’s costings, when they had the chance to do so – either at the Inquiry or through correspondence? “Astonishingly unreasonable behaviour” was Jonathan Clay’s verdict.

The Inspector himself was clearly unhappy. He couldn’t condone the way this evidence had been presented. But he couldn’t do much about it, since the Secretary of State would expect all evidence to be considered.

It was quite apparent that the owners of Toads Hole Valley had an agenda of their own. In whatever version of local planning policy you look at, the adopted Hove Local Plan or the emerging Brighton and Hove Local Plan, the site is heavily protected from development. It is also currently an AONB and not yet ruled out of the National Park.

Mr Stiles claimed he was only motivated by a wish to help the Albion get a stadium. But, to Jonathan Clay, he seemed much more interested in getting a lucrative commercial development for his clients. He had hardly co-operated in pre-Inquiry discussions with the football club. If the site was available, it was only being offered up if current planning policy could be breached. And the figures were being manipulated to suggest that the deal on offer would benefit the Albion financially.

Mr Clay put it succinctly. “Mr Stiles, do you know what the word ‘disingenuous’ means?”

But he wasn’t alone. Robert Stiles was supported by other witnesses. There was a Landscape Architect, with quite different views from the Albion’s witness. There was a Planner, with a very different perspective from the City Council’s planning witness, and his own way of reading between the lines of the Local Plan Inspector’s report.

And there is, we think, a transport witness. But he failed to turn up. Indeed, at 3.55pm, we discovered he can’t even be here tomorrow. Which is unfortunate, since Wednesday is the last available day for him to give evidence. And Mark Leigh, the Albion’s own transport expert, had travelled all the way from Manchester to deal with the issues that are likely to be raised by his evidence.

The Inspector is now very concerned that this will mean that the Inquiry won’t be completed by mid-April. Nobody is happy. The only consolation is that the case for Toads Hole Valley is falling apart.

I was just reminded of Swindon Town taking penalties. We thought they were professionals, but they kept missing the target.

 

[dougdeep]

Thanks everybody. Most enlightening. Falmer it is then!

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Brilliant reporting once again by the Town Hall Two. What clearly shines through is the thoroughness of the Albion's case, which is being proved (proven?) time and time again at this stage of the Inquiry. On the strength of the evidence presented to the inspector, it seems to me that it would be downright perverse for ODPM to conclude that any aspect of any of the alternative sites were in any way superior to Falmer.

 

[Easy 10]

Top reporting once again chaps.

The opposition are, quite honestly, looking like a complete shambles. They've delayed the start of the Inquiry, their witnesses have failed to show up, those that have have pushed their own agenda's whether they fall in line with local / government planning policy or not, their own lawyer can't even turn up on some of the days allocated in the timetable, and now the Toads Hole owners are doing the equivalent of trying to sell us a dodgy used car on maths that just don't add up.

I'm trying not to get too confident, but its getting harder by the day to see how any other decision other than a YES to Falmer can justifiably be arrived at.

 

[Curious Orange]

And there is, we think, a transport witness. But he failed to turn up. Indeed, at 3.55pm, we discovered he can’t even be here tomorrow. Which is unfortunate, since Wednesday is the last available day for him to give evidence. And Mark Leigh, the Albion’s own transport expert, had travelled all the way from Manchester to deal with the issues that are likely to be raised by his evidence.

The Inspector is now very concerned that this will mean that the Inquiry won’t be completed by mid-April. Nobody is happy.

That sounds a bit worrying. How comes the Albion witnesses all turn up when they are supposed to, but our opponents are always looking to turn up later?

 

[The Large One]

Sorry, I am being a bit thick here.

After having read SG's and LB's reports, was there any evidence to prove the the owners of THV had their own agenda, or was it an assumption made to look 'obvious'? I wasn't there yesterday, so I don't know exactly what was said, but did Mr Clay really score the victory that was claimed? It just isn't that apparent from the reports.

 

[Curious Orange]

There would be no protection of the aquifer.

What is an aquifer? And why does it need protecting?

 

[Storer68]

What is an aquifer? And why does it need protecting?

Aquifer: A formation, group of rock formations, or part of a formation that contains sufficient saturated, permeable material to yield significant quantities of water to wells and springs.

inother words - groundwater

 

[Easy 10]

What is an aquifer? And why does it need protecting?

acuifer n. Small herbivorous rodent of vole-like appearance. Notable for unusually short gestation period of eleven days.

 

[Curious Orange]

acuifer n. Small herbivorous rodent of vole-like appearance. Notable for unusually short gestation period of eleven days.

Sounds like a NIMBY....