Day 16 - Wed 2nd Mar - LEWES IN WONDERLAND

[The Oldman]

Inquiry Day 16 Wednesday

On Wednesday the Inquiry really got going especially after Tuesday when Miss Mackay from the Regency Society changed tack from a week ago. Then she argued that all football supporters would be most happy to walk to Sheepcote Valley from as far as Sackville Road in Hove but on Tuesday she argued that we would be most unwilling to walk from Churchill Square to Brighton Station to catch a football special train to Falmer.

Today it was Mr Wade the consultant for Lewes District Council in the hot seat. If I understood correctly he used to be Lewes DC’s planning officer and also Adur DC’s planning officer at different points in his distinguished career. He was cross examined by the Club’s Mr (“Let us be quite clear about this”) Wade and Miss (Mum to the all at the Inquiry) McPherson. for Brighton & Hove City council. Now I must confess I had to leave at 3.30 and my guess is the hearing went on a long time after that. So, read Lord B’s and Shoreham Gull’s definitive descriptions for a total update.
Anyway, I felt our Mr Clay discovered quite a few weaknesses in Lewes DC’s case.
Despite their denials that they wanted a Stadium anywhere but Falmer , Mr Wade did not convince me that Lewes was being even handed when putting forward its evidence. They had ruled out certain sites such as Brighton Station, the Dog Stadium but Mr Wade suggested that there was not enough detail to rule out other sites such as Sheepcote Valley, Toad Hall Valley or Shoreham Harbour. As our Mr Clay said then we are all wasting our time if that’s the case.
So, Lewes DC would be very happy for a stadium at Toads Hall, Sheepcote or Shoreham Harbour. Well what a surprise.
Miss McPherson, bless her, (well she was looking after the Inspector, who has a dreadful cold, by hanging up a curtain in McPherson Tartan Colours, to ward off cold air from the Inspector’s chair) did at one point get her F’s and S’s mixed up (you had to be there!) was well into protecting the badgers at Sheepcote valley when the cold stricken Inspector called a Tea break. At that point I found my missus had texted me to say that buses were not going through Seaford to Eastbourne because of ice and snow so I took my leave. I thought our side did well today but what the poor Inspector made of it, when all he wanted to do was take Lemsip and go home to bed, heaven knows.

 

[Rangdo]

Top reporting. NSC, an invaluable source of up to date inquiry news (psst its toads hole valley).

 

[The Oldman]

I stand corrected Rango!

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Report to follow.

The F and S stuff went like this ...

They were discussing the difference between the Local Development Framework and the Local Development Statement. (Trust me, this is VERY IMPORTANT to planners).

Mary Macpherson accidentally said LDF when she meant LDS, so she apologised to the Inspector.

Mary Mac: "I'm sorry. I said 'F' when I meant to say 'S' ".
Inspector: "There must be a joke in there somewhere".

I can only think that both of them must be North Stand Polls users.

 

[ShorehamGull]

My View, Inquiry day 16 (02/03/2005) The Inspectors Fisherman’s friends
I walked into the council chamber this morning a little bit soaked from my journey into Brighton, but I wasn’t that worried because I soon dried up nicely due to the fact the heating system in the chamber was sort of working.
We soon had Mr Brier requesting us to be seated just like a headmaster at a school assembly so that he could proceed with today’s program.
A bit of house keeping had to be done first before the first witness of the day could be seated.
Due to a couple of witnesses being unable to attend this week, Mr Brier gave us the welcome news that the inquiry will not sit tomorrow or Friday. But that maybe due to the fact that Mr Brier wants time to recover from what seems to be a cold. A cold I might add that may have been given to him by Mr White (LDC) who was spreading germs last week, thank-god we won’t be seeing Mr White until the closing submission in April.

Lewes District Councils planning officer Mr Dereck Wade or Dell Boy as I called him was first to make himself part of the furniture in the dock. Dell Boy sat ready for action and put his evidence across to all the parties. He firstly ruled out the Brighton Station site and the Greyhound stadium as possible alternatives. I was thinking what a relief perhaps will get through this quicker today, then he starts to rate and rave on about the possibilities for Shoreham harbour, Withdean and Sheepcote.
Mr White (the germ) had the pleasure of being the first to question Dell Boy as it was his witness. They both went on about planning policies and things like NC6 and NC7, don’t ask me what they actually mean, I am no expert on this things, but if I was being questioned by Mr White he would have been under the assumption I was.
Anyway Dell Boy suggests that the Albion stay at Withdean until a long term solution can be found for the Shoreham Harbour site, I think he has been discussing things with Mrs McKay too much.
Then Dell Boy spouts on about that both the North and South of Sheepcote could be built on and without any hurdles getting in the way, and suggests the relocation of anything at the bottom of Sheepcote valley, so a ground-share with Whitehawk FC is still on the cards.

Mr White spends about half an hour questioning Dell Boy before making way to Mr Clay, our very own club mastermind. Mr Clay likes a good battle with people who are trying challenge us with this stadium business, he seems to find a weakness somewhere within the witnesses and works on pinning them down with facts.
Mr Clay firstly refers to the Secretary of States letter dated 26th of July 2004, and questions Dell Boy about whether he had set out his evidence based on the criteria set out in the letter, which he struggled to come up with a decent answer.
They both went on about the different planning policies for which on several occasions Mr Brier had to intervene to break up the heated discussion between Mr Clay and Dell Boy on planning issues, it was great stuff.
Discussions continued about the alternatives sites that LDC has put forward and once again fur was flying and on several occasions the germ (Mr White) would shoot up from his seat and accuse Mr Clay of being to harsh on Dell Boy.
We had a short adjournment for a break because Mr Brier was keen to go for a coffee and a pee.

Seconds out round two:
Mr Clay and Dell Boy went through the planning issues of Shoreham Harbour, Toads Hole Valley, Withdean and Sheepcote and of course very rarely agreeing with each other.
Dell Boy suggested that if a stadium was to be built at Toad Hole Valley it would have less visual impact on the surrounding down-land, he did follow on to say that in the case of Falmer a stadium would have more visual impact on down-land. He claimed that because that he has travelled the A27 everyday that he should know more about that road than anybody else in the Chamber, I think there will be quite a few people that would disagree with his comments.

We were allowed a lunch break to recover from this mornings scrap, and after an hour returned to our seats, where Mr Brier apologised for having sweets in the chamber which of course are forbidden. He was quick to relay to everyone that they were his fisherman friends, for which he said with a cheeky grin on his face. He was showing sure signs today that he wants this whole saga over and done with as quickly as possible.

Mr Clay questioned Dell Boy about whether a stadium at Toads Hole Valley would be seen from residential areas, i.e King George the 6th Avenue for which he replied yes, but suggests that the stadium could be designed to be of a lesser height than the one designed for Falmer. This would surely decrease the capacity of the stadium?
Mr Clay’s cross examination of Dell Boy went on for a very long time, and the heated debates continued with the occasional interruption of the germ (Mr White) trying to challenge Mr Clay on his method of questioning. By this point Mr Brier was not so interested in stopping them; he just sat back and let them verbally battle it out while he just sucked on his cough sweets.
I could tell lots more about who said what, when they said it, and who was going to make the next critical comment, but the list is quite long.
Mr Clay finished his cross examination not long before afternoon break and allowed Miss McPherson to fry Dell Boy. She is just as good as Mr Clay with her methods of clawing the witness, I think between the two of them they can work out a way of putting a nail into the witness’s coffin.

At this point I took my usual look over to the dark side to assess the mood, and to my amazement Private Godfrey who is usually slumped in the chair asleep was nowhere to be seen, perhaps he is doing home guard duty at Falmer today.
We did have the privilege though to having a Maggie Thatcher look-a-like, but she was not much support to the Nimby’s because she slept most of the time. Well she was sitting in Private Godfrey’s seat, what is it with that seat that makes people sleeps so much?
There was no sign of Mrs John Lennon haircut McKay today, she was probably trying to lecture some poor sod on her vision for Shoreham harbour, if not she was having a new wig fitted.

Dell Boy’s day was finished by questions from Miss McPherson, Mr White then finally Mr Brier and then he could be released from his collar.
Mr Small (Sussex Downs Board Conservation) was next to give evidence, he was advised by Mr Brier to make it brief because time was getting on and everyone was showing signs of tiredness and wondering if we would get out just in time to catch the night bus.
Mr Small discounts Brighton Station and the Greyhound stadium as alternatives, doesn’t think much to Toads Hole and Waterhall, but puts down Sheepcote, Withdean, Shoreham harbour and the cement works as the best.
At this point I had run out of paper to write on and starting to consider leaving because the chamber had that chill factor again, but I was determined to stick it out right to the end.

Mr Clay, Miss McPherson, Mr White, and Mr Brier all closed off with a selection of questions to Mr Small for which my concentration had found the gap in the door to escape.
At the end there was a 10 minute discussion about the possibility of Mr Brier revisiting all the alternative sites and the dates that they will take place.
Mr Brier was taking reference to Moulsecoomb Station for his visit of Sheepcote but had to be corrected on several occasions to on how he should be pronouncing Moulsecoomb, in the end he got confused and decided to take another cough sweet.
So if you see Mr Brier walking around the Brighton Hove equipped with Hiking boots, walking stick, and a bag full of fisherman friends please don’t stop him he has work to do.
We finally escaped out about half 6 this evening so I apologise if my report is running very late this evening.
For any of you waiting for me to mention the word Megan, yes she was there today and I could have a full list of words to suggest how beautiful she looked once again today. When I mentioned to her that she was famous amongst the Albion supporters she just looked at me and a little smile appeared on her face, this brightened up my day. She seems to be handling all the fame quite well, but she is not signing autographs just yet.
Referring to History Man’s thread, we will have a short break until next Tuesday. Both Tuesday and Wednesday are both 9:30 starts, so if you are thinking of attending please do come along if you can, but just be prepared and come equipped with all the right kit, coat, pillow and food so I don’t go hungry.
C U GUYS
SG

 

[ShorehamGull]

Sorry to everyone reading my report, its a bit longer than I expected, I just had lots to talk about.
Good report Gaffer, I agree Miss McPherson is the Mum of the inquiry

 

[Lord Bracknell]

My report ...


Last October, I asked a question at a meeting of Lewes District Council. I was interested in what justification the Council had for continuing to oppose a stadium at Falmer and spending council tax payers’ money on making representations at the resumed Public Inquiry that was going to consider alternative stadium sites that were all outside Lewes District.

Councillor Neil Commin, the lead councillor for Planning gave me an answer which included the following sentence – “We have a plan-led system in this country. Local authorities are required to make decisions in line with adopted Local Plan policies, unless material considerations indicate otherwise”.

In other words, Lewes Council’s position was to defend its adopted planning policies and oppose a stadium in an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty.

Today at the Inquiry we got a glimpse of what Lewes have spent their money on. Actually, some of it is my money, since I’m a council tax payer in the district.

Their main planning witness, Dereck Wade, spent most of the day giving evidence on behalf of Lewes District Council and answering questions from Jonathan Clay who was representing the football club.

Mr Clay pressed the football club’s case hard. But it must have felt like a struggle. He took Dereck Wade through each of the sites that Lewes considered preferable to Falmer. Toads Hole Valley. Did Mr Wade agree that any development here was contrary to the adopted Local Plan? Yes. Was it in an AONB? Yes. Was development permitted in the new Local Plan? No.

Then how could Lewes District Council support a stadium being built there? Mr Wade responded by telling the Inquiry that there are procedures that allow a local authority to depart from its policies and permit development regardless of the Local Plan.

The same answer applied to Sheepcote Valley. Mr Wade agreed that the City Council’s policies to protect open countryside from development applied to Sheepcote Valley. But there were these same “departure procedures” that might be invoked to set those policies to one side.

Ditto Shoreham Harbour. The football club might even set the ball rolling by putting in a planning application, despite the fact that every known policy body from regional level downwards would advise that there are no policies that would permit a stadium to be built there. If the Albion’s planning application was turned down, there was a right of appeal – to John Prescott – who would listen to a case for using these same departure procedures.

Had we all fallen, Alice-like, into Wonderland, a fantasy world where, because we were outside Lewes, planning procedures were exactly the opposite of what Councillor Neil Commin had said they were? It certainly looked like it.

And what on earth had induced the “plan-led” Lewes District Council to spend my money on a planning consultant who was apparently prepared to ignore just about every policy that had ever been adopted in any Local Plan? Curious, or what?

Dereck Wade’s Wonderland is not like our world. The fact that a potential stadium site would be refused planning permission means that it’s “not available”, surely? Not to Mr Wade, who would only pronounce such a site to be unavailable, after the inevitably lengthy process of submitting a planning application had been turned down.

In the meantime, as long as departure procedures were there, the site – any site, it would seem – was available. And, therefore, John Prescott should turn Falmer down.

Heroically, Jonathan Clay became even more precise in his questioning. Even if the Inspector was to conclude that there was absolutely no chance of an alternative site getting planning permission for a stadium, would the Secretary of State be right to conclude that the site wasn’t available?

No – said Dereck Wade. Why? – asked Mr Clay. And here we got the full absurdity of Lewes District Council’s position – because no-one can come to any conclusions about the suitability of a particular site (other than the fact that it is available, because of departure procedures) without the full detailed information that would only be assembled if a full planning application was submitted.

In other words, whichever way you go, Falmer should be turned down. Because Lewes District Council support a plan-led planning system.

I simply can’t believe that this planning Wonderland makes any sense. All I do know is that thousands of Albion supporters in Lewes District are paying for it.

 

[Curious Orange]

I think you have every right to be a bit ticked off with your local council Lord B!!

Why on earth should planning policies only apply in Lewes District, but nowhere else?



Presumably this means that the stadium site is available, but the coach park site isn't!?!

 

[Yorkie]

Ticked off is not the word CO.

 

[Curious Orange]

Ticked off is not the word CO.

I'll bet, I should imagine there will be a few angry letters heading LDC's way from aggravated council tax payers.

 

[Easy 10]

What it basically boils down to is that LDC carry all their own interpretations of the planning regulations, and bend them every which way they like to make those regulations fit their own agenda, even if it means contradicting themselves.

Quite staggering. So LDC's own Local Plan does not permit devlopment on an AONB, hence their opposition to a stadium at Falmer. But they would support a stadium being built at Toads Hall Valley, despite this also being an AONB...?

...oh but thats because LDC are allowed to depart from their own policies and support developments of AONB basically, err, when it suits them.

Well, thats alright then.

 

[Yorkie]

What it basically boils down to is that LDC carry all their own interpretations of the planning regulations, and bend them every which way they like to make those regulations fit their own agenda, even if it means contradicting themselves.

Quite staggering. So LDC's own Local Plan does not permit devlopment on an AONB, hence their opposition to a stadium at Falmer. But they would support a stadium being built at Toads Hall Valley, despite this also being an AONB...?

...oh but thats because LDC are allowed to depart from their own policies and support developments of AONB basically, err, when it suits them.

The ultimate definition of a NIMBY

 

[Bwian]

I am now really pissed off with LDC-actually I'm not pissed off: I'm really f***ing angry. Their total disregard for anything outside of their own agenda is appalling.

 

[somerset]

I wonder, in light of all these spurious 'days-off', 'delays' and 'unavailabilities', if LB has an updated view of the timetable from here on in. Obviously I don't mean decision time, but perhaps a more definite idea of when the 'Report' will be published and/or passed to Prescott ( or his replacement) for consideration.?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I wonder, in light of all these spurious 'days-off', 'delays' and 'unavailabilities', if LB has an updated view of the timetable from here on in. Obviously I don't mean decision time, but perhaps a more definite idea of when the 'Report' will be published and/or passed to Prescott ( or his replacement) for consideration.?

As far as I am aware, what we are expecting now is this:-

Tuesday 8 March & Wednesday 9 March - Evidence on behalf of the owners of Toads Hole Valley

Tuesday 13 April & Wednesday 14 April - Transport evidence on behalf of Lewes District Council

Thursday 15 April - Closing Submissions by Lewes District Council and Brighton & Hove City Council

Friday 16 April - Closing Submission by Brighton & Hove Albion FC

That would allow the Inspector to submit his Report to the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister by the end of April. It would then be considered by the ODPM's Planning Directorate for as long as it takes. They will then make a recommendation to the Secretary of State (Prescott, unless a post-election government reshuffle passes responsibility for planning to another Minister). The Secretary of State will then consider that recommendation. And then we'll get a decision.

If there is an election on 5 May, I would think it would be unlikely that the Planning Directorate at the ODPM would even show the Report to a Minister until after the election is over. Apart from anything else, all the politicians will be mainly storming around the country having eggs thrown at them.

 

[Easy 10]

As far as I am aware, what we are expecting now is this:-

Tuesday 8 March & Wednesday 9 March - Evidence on behalf of the owners of Toads Hole Valley

Tuesday 13 April & Wednesday 14 April - Transport evidence on behalf of Lewes District Council

Thursday 15 April - Closing Submissions by Lewes District Council and Brighton & Hove City Council

Friday 16 April - Closing Submission by Brighton & Hove Albion FC

We get the last word in then.

Good.