David Cameron's excellent speech in MK

[Tricky Dicky]

For those who hate Labour: the solution is NOT to vote Conservative. This country is in grave danger of sleepwalking into a nightmare four or eight years of divisive, destructive Tory rule, not because the party is presenting a credible alternative agenda, but because people just want to punish Brown & Co.

Use your vote positively - not as a reaction to something you dislike. I'm voting Green in the Euros.

Out if interest, what policies of the Greens' do you support. I mean, their obvious ecological strategies aside (many of which all parties ought to be adopting), what about their policies on the Health Service or schools etc.

Having listened to them a bit, a can see many of their points on renewables and CO2 reduction etc. but as soon as they stray off the "climate" topic, they sound completely barmy.

 

[sir danny cullip]

Cameron gives every impression of making up new policies, as the mood takes him, without consulting anyone.

A very dangerous characteristic in a politician.

I can't really see any problem with his actions. He is the leader of the opposition (for the time being) so can put forward any ideas he chooses, presumably after consultation with the shadow cabinet. He is showing leadership, how do you know he hasn't consulted anyone? Focus groups? Constituents?

When he gets into power he will be the same as any PM in that he will be accountable to his own party, questioned by theopposition and most of all accountable at the ballot box.

 

[drew]

Cameron gives every impression of making up new policies, as the mood takes him, without consulting anyone.

A very dangerous characteristic in a politician.

David Cameron is the new King of the Soundbites. He says what he believes the public want to hear in the pursuit of power.

I can't really see any problem with his actions. He is the leader of the opposition (for the time being) so can put forward any ideas he chooses, presumably after consultation with the shadow cabinet. He is showing leadership, how do you know he hasn't consulted anyone? Focus groups? Constituents?

When he gets into power he will be the same as any PM in that he will be accountable to his own party, questioned by theopposition and most of all accountable at the ballot box.

So, you only presume that he has consulted the shadow cabinet, you don't actually know do you! He spouts off about taking power away from the Prime Minister yet keeps coming out with all these new policies without a hint that he has the concensus of the shadow cabinet.

He says he wants to give power back to the people yet the one electoral reform that would do this most would probably be proportional representation yet he still believes that a party that is voted for by the minority can still be the government for the majority.

 

[withdeanwombat]

All that glitters in the Tory world is dross.

You heard it here 930,786,821st.

 

[sir danny cullip]

David Cameron is the new King of the Soundbites. He says what he believes the public want to hear in the pursuit of power.



So, you only presume that he has consulted the shadow cabinet, you don't actually know do you! He spouts off about taking power away from the Prime Minister yet keeps coming out with all these new policies without a hint that he has the concensus of the shadow cabinet.

No of course, I don't KNOW of any consultation (but can assume given that he's a politican supported by the shadow cabinet that there was some) just like everyone else doesn't KNOW that there wasn't any consultaton. I think in politics, unless hinted/stated otherwise by the cabinet, that the leader will have the support from the majority of his party on the majority of issues which is exactly how a leader gets elected in the first place.

When was the last time (despite the numerous labour rebels) that anyone questioned whether Gordon Brown has the support of his cabinet? Did the cabinet decide to bail the banks out? Did the cabinet decide on a VAT cut? Doubt it, probably suggested by Brown and agreed with by the cabinet just as the ideas in this speech were probably decided upon in the same way.

What about 90 day detention? That's an important issue and a decision MUST have been taken in consultation with the party surely? No, rebels voted against it in the commons, no one else in the commons wanted it, and no one else in the public wanted it. Prime example of consultation in my book.

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

As far as the European elections coming up, if you are still making up your mind who to vote for, I'd recommend going to Vote Match Europe. where you give your views on a range of policies that MEPs have the power to decide, and they will tell you which party matches your view most closest.

 

[coventrygull]

As far as the European elections coming up, if you are still making up your mind who to vote for, I'd recommend going to Vote Match Europe. where you give your views on a range of policies that MEPs have the power to decide, and they will tell you which party matches your view most closest.

But it doesn't have all the parties does it. So a bit naff really

 

[User removed 4]

So, you only presume that he has consulted the shadow cabinet, you don't actually know do you!

[/QUOTE]
And you dont know that he hasnt , do you ? made an arse of this havent i !

 

[Dandyman]

Out if interest, what policies of the Greens' do you support. I mean, their obvious ecological strategies aside (many of which all parties ought to be adopting), what about their policies on the Health Service or schools etc.

Having listened to them a bit, a can see many of their points on renewables and CO2 reduction etc. but as soon as they stray off the "climate" topic, they sound completely barmy.

Fair question - I think the Greens are sound on civil/personal liberties (against the constant authoritarian whitling away of individual freedoms), Europe
(a policy of critical engagement), against illegal & immoral wars, and fairly good on education, NHS and other issues. I am less bothered about Green issues although I suspect they are talking sense on a number of points.

 

[User removed 4]

So, you only presume that he has consulted the shadow cabinet, you don't actually know do you!

And you dont know that he hasnt, do you ?

 

[coventrygull]

Fair question - I think the Greens are sound on civil/personal liberties (against the constant authoritarian whitling away of individual freedoms), Europe
(a policy of critical engagement), against illegal & immoral wars, and fairly good on education, NHS and other issues. I am less bothered about Green issues although I suspect they are talking sense on a number of points.

I did the test and came out that I should vote Green

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

But it doesn't have all the parties does it. So a bit naff really

Fair point if you are saying it doesn't have your party in it. However, this is purely because the BNP have declined to participate on four separate occasions.

Vote Match currently matches website participants' views with those of Conservatives, Green, Jury Team, Labour, Lib Dems, Libertas, and UK Independence Party.

 

[Billy the Fish]

I can't really see any problem with his actions. He is the leader of the opposition (for the time being) so can put forward any ideas he chooses, presumably after consultation with the shadow cabinet. He is showing leadership, how do you know he hasn't consulted anyone? Focus groups? Constituents?

When he gets into power he will be the same as any PM in that he will be accountable to his own party, questioned by theopposition and most of all accountable at the ballot box.

You'll never win this argument on here. Whatever logic you use will be met with: evil tories, no policies, toffs, ruined the country 30 years ago

At the end of the day the polls will do the talking. The Conservatives will get in at the next election.

More NSC users vote tory than any other party, although you could be forgiven for thinking this board was stuck in 1945 and in the middle of a battle between Hitler and Stalin.

No matter how much Drew goes on about hating the Tories, his vote at the next election won't mean anything because Nicholas Soames' seat is safe as houses

 

[coventrygull]

Fair point if you are saying it doesn't have your party in it. However, this is purely because the BNP have declined to participate on four separate occasions.

Vote Match currently matches website participants' views with those of Conservatives, Green, Jury Team, Labour, Lib Dems, Libertas, and UK Independence Party.

No Socialist Labour or No2Eu amongst others. So its a bit pointless

 

[drew]

So, you only presume that he has consulted the shadow cabinet, you don't actually know do you!

And you dont know that he hasnt, do you ?

You miss the point. He is talking about giving power back to the people yet comes across as if these are all his ideas alone. No, I don't know if he has consulted his party (shadow cabinet, MPs and rank and file of the Tory Party) but perhaps he should indicate that he has!!!!

You'll never win this argument on here. Whatever logic you use will be met with: evil tories, no policies, toffs, ruined the country 30 years ago

At the end of the day the polls will do the talking. The Conservatives will get in at the next election.

More NSC users vote tory than any other party, although you could be forgiven for thinking this board was stuck in 1945 and in the middle of a battle between Hitler and Stalin.

No matter how much Drew goes on about hating the Tories, his vote at the next election won't mean anything because Nicholas Soames' seat is safe as houses

I don't hate Tories, just what they stand for. Equally, I am no fan of Brown as he is, along with Major, the weakest leader we have had for 30 years (I know, there have been only 4 in that time).

By the way, Soames might be safe but I will still cast my vote. One of the reforms Cameron should be advocating is mandatory voting as they have in Australia.

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

No Socialist Labour or No2Eu amongst others. So its a bit pointless

Sadly, No2Eu didn't provide Vote Match with answers to policy statements in time.

Even if it doesn't have the Socialist Labour Party in it, on balance, I don't think that is enough to make the exercise pointless. I found it an interesting thing and yes, I was surprised to be a Green too!

 

[sir danny cullip]

You miss the point. He is talking about giving power back to the people yet comes across as if these are all his ideas alone. No, I don't know if he has consulted his party (shadow cabinet, MPs and rank and file of the Tory Party) but perhaps he should indicate that he has!!!!

It's just inpractical, why should he have to anyway?! You assume he has the support of his party and if he doesn't then it won't take someone long to pipe up to the media. He doesn't need to draft a line at the beginning of every speech to the effect of 'I have the full support of the shadow cabinet with the following proposals', if he doesn't have the majority of the support you will soon hear about it. Until then, just assume he has

 

[Spiros]

One of the reforms Cameron should be advocating is mandatory voting as they have in Australia.

Why? I've always felt that the right to not vote is as important as the right to vote. Why force people to vote who simply don't care?

And those earlier in the thread talking about Tories ruining the country were either not around in the 70s or don't remember them. Love her or hate her, Thatcher did at least sort out the horrific mess caused by a combination of Labour and unions. Even Brown hasn't yet managed to conjure up piles of rubbish in the streets, regular power cuts, repeated strikes by teachers, ambulance drivers, grave diggers, etc. Given time, however....

 

[drew]

It's just inpractical, why should he have to anyway?! You assume he has the support of his party and if he doesn't then it won't take someone long to pipe up to the media. He doesn't need to draft a line at the beginning of every speech to the effect of 'I have the full support of the shadow cabinet with the following proposals', if he doesn't have the majority of the support you will soon hear about it. Until then, just assume he has

So, assuming for arguments sake he hasn't consulted the cabinet, you don't see any irony in the fact he is deciding policy for everyone, a policy that advocates more power to the people rather than the ruling elite!!!!! It may well be that the spin doctors he suggests should be limited are the ones advising him on this policy. A bit more irony there I feel. If he is so against spin then why not get rid of them all! Also, if it is impracticable for him to agree policy within his own party, how much more impracticable is it going to be to get consensus from Joe Public!!!!

Why? I've always felt that the right to not vote is as important as the right to vote. Why force people to vote who simply don't care?

And those earlier in the thread talking about Tories ruining the country were either not around in the 70s or don't remember them. Love her or hate her, Thatcher did at least sort out the horrific mess caused by a combination of Labour and unions. Even Brown hasn't yet managed to conjure up piles of rubbish in the streets, regular power cuts, repeated strikes by teachers, ambulance drivers, grave diggers, etc. Given time, however....

I don't deny measures needed to be taken but we went from one unpalatable extreme towards the other.

 

[sir danny cullip]

So, assuming for arguments sake he hasn't consulted the cabinet, you don't see any irony in the fact he is deciding policy for everyone, a policy that advocates more power to the people rather than the ruling elite!!!!! It may well be that the spin doctors he suggests should be limited are the ones advising him on this policy. A bit more irony there I feel. If he is so against spin then why not get rid of them all! Also, if it is impracticable for him to agree policy within his own party, how much more impracticable is it going to be to get consensus from Joe Public!!!!

If there were ever an argument based on pure fantasy and paranoia then that is it! I think it would be safe to say that 1. He has the support of the cabinet and 2. This policy has probably come as a result of cabinet meetings. If the cabinet didnt feel their opinion was being respected you would soon hear about it through the media so, for the time being, you have nothing to worry yourself with