[Albion] Dan Ashworth joins Newcastle

[Greavsey]

Agreed. It is a complete none starter as Ashworth would be making an approach on behalf of NUFC, so any restriction would be between NUFC and BHAFC, which as you've pointed out would be a waste of time because we already have the power to refuse another club speaking to our players (unless in the last months of their contract) under FA rules. This would otherwise surely come up every time a manager moves clubs - how would transfer system even work if you ended up with adhoc restrictions between clubs. You got it right, we can just tell them to sling their hook if they want to speak to our players.

Yes of course we have the right to do that. But we all know football doesn't work that way in reality, and players and managers are sounded out long before an approach from a club becomes official. All it takes is for £200k a week to be mentioned to the right agent and suddenly you have a player interested and trying to force a move, and usually the selling club then reluctantly has to negotiate a transfer fee or end up with a p1ssed off player on their books.

Can only think of Spurs recently refusing to sell and Kane has not been the same player since.

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

https://www.theargus.co.uk/sport/19824725.newcastle-pursuit-dan-ashworth-take-time/

To me it looks like he'll go after the Jan transfer window. TB will want to get in the players he's been working on for Jan and then he can go. There is not a definite no in the article, more of a waiting for the right time to go, imo like.

This Mr Bloom's only sensible option if Ashworth wishes to be paid blood money, Why let him go now, when we have targets that could be taken to Newcastle, why help them.

I hate Newcastle more than Palace.

 

[Audax]

FTC and rolling contracts are very different and tend to be targeted at very different people, although you're right about the tightening of rules on employers who used to use the FTC 'loopholes'

As someone mentioned earlier, a rolling contract is effectively 'a new 12 month contract every day'. It's basically an agreement that at the point you agree to go your separate ways you get paid a year's salary. (I have never worked a notice period on a rolling contract and as far as I remember, never known anyone who has).

Can see where that would be an attractive option in the footballing world. Interesting point of difference between how football does things and how Formula 1 do it (F1 tends to ask for longer FTC terms and insert rather long anti-poaching gardening leave provisions; Aston Martin for example have been stung when they hired Dan Fallows from Red Bull - RB have insisted he sees out his contract with them first, and it's watertight after they saw off a previous attempt to poach him. Edit: timely article - https://the-race.com/formula-1/aston-martin-f1-chief-szafnauer-exits-team/. Explains about Fallows in the last couple of paragraphs - he's on gardening leave now, for 2022 season, and RB are also trying to enforce a further clause that prevents him joining a rival team for a further 6 months).

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Yes of course we have the right to do that. But we all know football doesn't work that way in reality, and players and managers are sounded out long before an approach from a club becomes official. All it takes is for £200k a week to be mentioned to the right agent and suddenly you have a player interested and trying to force a move, and usually the selling club then reluctantly has to negotiate a transfer fee or end up with a p1ssed off player on their books.

Can only think of Spurs recently refusing to sell and Kane has not been the same player since.

Dale Stephens, Lewis Dunk ? Maybe Ben White 18 months ago. Lots of Leeds fans on here claiming he was agitating for a move but it didn’t happen, did it. I would imagine lots of others that don’t reach the press once a shiny new deal is negotiated. Clubs hold the contract and the registration. If they decide not to sell then the player stays.

 

[Audax]

24 months, but it only takes a 1 calendar week break of service to reset - as anyone who's moved from contactor to permanent employee may have had imposed on them.

Seems they didn't tighten the rules as much as I previously thought (just moved the calendar break from every 12 mths to every 24 mths...). However: I suspect repeat use of the 1 week break loophole would be easily challenged, as it's against the spirit of the rules that are in place (4 years or more at same employer = conversion to Perm; FTC employees have same rights/conditions as Perm employees).

 

[Amexarmadillo]

Dan Ashworth is going to have no problem getting a decent football job anywhere. Why anyone, for any money, could have so few morals that they could work for a person that actually kidnapped a journalist, tortured, killed, then sawed up his body, all because he’d written some unwelcome words is beyond my comprehension. And that is just the very tip of their crimes against humanity. Utterly vile people that make me sick to my stomach.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

That might be out of date? There's been a fair bit of tightening of the rules in terms of what rights those on timed contracts have vs those on permanent. IIRC once you go beyond 12 months with the same employer, your rights are pretty much the same. I know for example the old trick of employing people on 12 mth FTC, then giving them a 2 week window before re-hiring on a new 12 mth FTC with a restarted timer on employment rights loophole has been closed a good many years ago.

I might be wrong, but I think the type of contract [MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] is talking about is more like a permanent contract with 12 months notice period either side.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Yes of course we have the right to do that. But we all know football doesn't work that way in reality, and players and managers are sounded out long before an approach from a club becomes official. All it takes is for £200k a week to be mentioned to the right agent and suddenly you have a player interested and trying to force a move, and usually the selling club then reluctantly has to negotiate a transfer fee or end up with a p1ssed off player on their books.

Can only think of Spurs recently refusing to sell and Kane has not been the same player since.

As far as we know ManCity made a legitimate approach to Spurs to speak to their player, and their player publicly announced he'd like to go. Spurs said no, that was it. That the player may have had a sulk and downed tools, that's football, either the player wants to play for you, or he doesn't.

You'd have these sort of contracts for every manager or coach that ever moved clubs. Just unworkable and probably conflicts with transfer rules and dealings anyway.

 

[GT49er]

I highly doubt that. How much money would he need to be set up for life? He's only 50 years old so would need millions and millions in the bank to be set up for life. I bet he would laugh his head off at that suggestion.

Bearing in mind that a million pounds is more than most 50 year olds will have ever earned, I suggest that the need for "millions snd millions" is way OTT!

 

[Kaiser_Soze]

A lot has been made about the financial clout Newcastle have in the transfer market. This seems completely at odds with the project at Brighton. DA has been instrumental in the philosophy we have here of buying young and or undervalued players and then developing them. Newcastle cannot offer that - if he wants to spend 3 years signing aging players in the twilight of their career while also trying to improve an academy then so be it. His track record hasn't been at big established clubs.

For me, this isn't a foregone conclusion. He's put 3 and a half years into the club and got us to the point where we are hopefully going to finish top half. The next step will be trying to break into Europe. That's quite a project to walk away from to try and start from scratch elsewhere. If DA thinks he can still help to take this club further, then I wouldn't be surprised if he stays.

 

[dazzer6666]

That's not a "rolling contract" then, it's just a standard employment contract with a 12 month notice period.

That's not quite what we used but it's distracting from thread so I'll stop

I don't think it's anything like certain Ashworth will go - would interesting to see how he'd balance the relative long-term stability here vs what may or may not happen at Newcastle under new owners who know **** all about football.

 

[Commander]

Bearing in mind that a million pounds is more than most 50 year olds will have ever earned, I suggest that the need for "millions snd millions" is way OTT!

Yes, but with the circles he will move in and the kind of lifestyle / expenses he will already have, it's completely irrelevant what other 50 year olds earn. Why would he measure himself by that? That's like saying you earn £40K a year where as people in Cambodia survive on a dollar a day, so you're set up for life. It doesn't work like that.

I have no idea what he's on, but if he's on say £400K a year, he's hardly going to feel like he is set up for life, is he? It's not a like a footballer who is on £5 million a year who could work for 5 years and then retire (if they invest sensibly).

 

[Bold Seagull]

Yes, but with the circles he will move in and the kind of lifestyle / expenses he will already have, it's completely irrelevant what other 50 year olds earn. Why would he measure himself by that? That's like saying you earn £40K a year where as people in Cambodia survive on a dollar a day, so you're set up for life. It doesn't work like that.

I have no idea what he's on, but if he's on say £400K a year, he's hardly going to feel like he is set up for life, is he? It's not a like a footballer who is on £5 million a year who could work for 5 years and then retire (if they invest sensibly).

So true. I have a few friends earning 4x what I earn. I might think they'd be set up, but they have multiple private school fees, huge life insurance premiums to cover all that expense and mortgages, they buy Porches and other cars, skiing twice a year, summer holiday, second home perhaps, suddenly they are a bit of a slave to that income to sustain all that. Someone offering 2 or 3x more, they'd snap their hands off! It's all relative to the lifestyle you choose.

 

[Machiavelli]

A lot has been made about the financial clout Newcastle have in the transfer market. This seems completely at odds with the project at Brighton. DA has been instrumental in the philosophy we have here of buying young and or undervalued players and then developing them. Newcastle cannot offer that - if he wants to spend 3 years signing aging players in the twilight of their career while also trying to improve an academy then so be it. His track record hasn't been at big established clubs.

For me, this isn't a foregone conclusion. He's put 3 and a half years into the club and got us to the point where we are hopefully going to finish top half. The next step will be trying to break into Europe. That's quite a project to walk away from to try and start from scratch elsewhere. If DA thinks he can still help to take this club further, then I wouldn't be surprised if he stays.

Three years, I think.

 

[dazzer6666]

Yes, but with the circles he will move in and the kind of lifestyle / expenses he will already have, it's completely irrelevant what other 50 year olds earn. Why would he measure himself by that? That's like saying you earn £40K a year where as people in Cambodia survive on a dollar a day, so you're set up for life. It doesn't work like that.

I have no idea what he's on, but if he's on say £400K a year, he's hardly going to feel like he is set up for life, is he? It's not a like a footballer who is on £5 million a year who could work for 5 years and then retire (if they invest sensibly).

Completely agree with this...................very highly paid people are quite often they are committed up to their eyeballs with huge mortgages etc and maintaining a lifestyle that means they have to keep going. Whilst £400k is an absolute fortune to most, if you've got a seven figure mortgage, 2 or 3 kids in an expensive public school and a 100k car on PCP your £200k or so net already has a pretty big hole in it.

 

[Questions]

He can’t expect to get the kids!!

lamptey is just small - he’s not a kid

 

[middletoenail]

He'd be mad to turn it down, he has no allegiance to Brighton. Its just a job at the end of the day.

As an Albion fan I'd jump ship to Newcastle if it meant I could retire early and set my family up for life.

 

[dazzer6666]

He'd be mad to turn it down, he has no allegiance to Brighton. Its just a job at the end of the day.

As an Albion fan I'd jump ship to Newcastle if it meant I could retire early and set my family up for life.

...............but no way of knowing yet whether that's likely though. Unknown owners with no track record in football (and a questionable track record on some issues), could easily get sacked within months which looks very unlikely with us. Job moves are aren't simply down to money. Tony will probably offer him a pay rise to stay as well.

 

[middletoenail]

I agree, dodgy owners, but they can't skirt UK employment law.

His worth is what someone is willing to pay him. After all, he left the FA for little Brighton.

Sorry [MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] , I'm too drunk to work out how to quote you

 

[dazzer6666]

I agree, dodgy owners, but they can't skirt UK employment law.

His worth is what someone is willing to pay him. After all, he left the FA for little Brighton.

Sorry [MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] , I'm too drunk to work out how to quote you

Not sure what employment law has got to do with it - they'd just pay his contract up if they wanted rid