[Misc] Covid jabs and prioritising

[dazzer6666]

Alternatively...

- The older folks who have 5-20 years life left - let's give them the best possible chance of living that.
- The younger who have decades and decades to live - they can afford to put life on pause for a few months.

And that's the long and short of it given where we are now. With a bit of luck on the vaccine/variant front, we'll begin emerging from this terrible period in 3-4 months. We're not talking years and, regardless of what you think we could/should have done 10 months ago, we can't change that now.

I think my learned friend [MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] is likely correct though. Any other strategy does little to throttle the burden on the NHS in the short term, and it's at breaking point already. We just have to give those incredible people in the NHS going through hell day after day the quickest possible escape from that and, by coincidence, doing that is also likely to save thousands of lives.

You’re over-crediting me there mate.......

Re [MENTION=232]Simster[/MENTION] ‘s point though, keeping the oldies shielded and cared for by the vaccinated young doesn’t necessarily help, as there is still insufficient evidence as to whether vaccination prevents carrying/transmission....so we shield the elderly, vaccinate everyone else and the hospitalisation and death numbers are still potentially huge.
[MENTION=522]Kinky Gerbils[/MENTION] - yes I think we’re coming at it differently based partly on lockdown expectations. I think the Gov are desperate to start removing restrictions, and stopping the flood of deaths and hospitalisations is the quickest route to doing that, hence vaccinate those most likely to suffer........(not the only reason, but certainly part of the thinking behind the approach).

 

[blue-shifted]

I think we should continue phase 1. Ie Vaccination everyone down to the age of 50, using age as the main determinant.

After that it should be based on profession

So next in line are teachers, police, prison wardens etc.
Then the next set of riskiest. Builders, hairdressers
People able to work from home (me included) should be last

My guess. The speed of vaccinations will be so great, that we're only looking at a couple of months to blast through all of that by mid-late spring. Then the order of professions will be less controversial

 

[clapham_gull]

Probably already mentioned but I'd be appalled if someone my age who works in a supermarket etc.. or works in the NHS (at any age) gets it before me.

( Of course, anyone younger than me working at home can f### right off. )

 

[NooBHA]

I am still 100% in favour of the elderly being Vaccinated first.

I still get as do many other enjoy the the company of people like my father in his 80s being around.

If he and many other elderly people had to go to the back of the queue. That could be another year they have to wait. Many of them, their health could deteriorate or worse they could pass away in that time.

That would deprive not only them of that time in their lives but time children or grandchildren quality time with their parents or grandparents.

You can never get that time back. Younger generations have more time to pick their lives up again once this is all over. The elderly may not have that time.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

I am still 100% in favour of the elderly being Vaccinated first.

I still get as do many other enjoy the the company of people like my father in his 80s being around.

If he and many other elderly people had to go to the back of the queue. That could be another year they have to wait. Many of them, their health could deteriorate or worse they could pass away in that time.

That would deprive not only them of that time in their lives but time children or grandchildren quality time with their parents or grandparents.

You can never get that time back. Younger generations have more time to pick their lives up again once this is all over. The elderly may not have that time.

Yep, many older people have had a sad year without being with their families and vice versa. To now take away the opportunity of seeing them for another year does seem cruel.

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

I just love the way older people and baby boomers are so resented and at times tainted as the evil people of this country.

The situation they grew up in was not one created specifically by themselves and contrary to some beliefs they did not commit a crime just because mortgages were readily available and property was more affordable.

And endowment shortfall and pension mis-selling to overcome ...
Oh, and lil 'ole PPI too

Had to tough eh?

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

My daughter (5) is fortunately going to school two days a week as my wife is a key worker but she's still really suffering. She's not eating properly, she won't sleep, she's miserable, she's anxious. I'm really worried this is going to have a permanent damaging effect on her personality and her mental health. That's why.

http://https://www.anxietyuk.org.uk/blog/how-to-talk-to-children-about-covid-19/

 

[clapham_gull]

From personal experience, it's been brutal for older people. Many being the generation who either remember the war or the aftermath.

To experience similar at the start of their life and towards the end is horrific. How it started should not be how it ends.

For all others, most in a far more difficult situation than me, we will get over it. Get them vaccinated and drop this survival of the fittest bullshit in the bin.

 

[wellquickwoody]

You've put me on the spot, but I'll have a go:

NHS workers & teachers
Other key workers - need to think about who and how to prioritise this.
Then those people privately renting. They need an income or we are going to have an even bigger homelessness problem.
Then those with mortgages, tiered by what is owed. Below rentals in priority because banks can and should be able to offer payment holidays.

Wow.

So just about anyone with their own home goes to the back of the queue. Your list seems to display an incredible amount of jealousy and anger to those you see as more fortunate than yourself. I know young people will find the lockdown tough but so will everyone else too. The education thing will either be addressed by kids being held back a year or by being assessed on course work rather than exams with parameters adjusted for the effects of Covid.

Your parents could catch Covid and die within a couple of weeks (hopefully not of course), but if they had the jab they might have another ten years left. I really am struggling with your thinking here.

Priority should be the vulnerable and health workers first, and then work back towards the least vulnerable. Financial position should not be considered at all.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

My daughter (5) is fortunately going to school two days a week as my wife is a key worker but she's still really suffering. She's not eating properly, she won't sleep, she's miserable, she's anxious. I'm really worried this is going to have a permanent damaging effect on her personality and her mental health. That's why.

And obviously that's terrible. I hope it's not damaging for her long-term. But having lots of parents getting Covid because they're spreading it at school is also terrible. Which ever way there are bad consequences, but if we are serious about being rid of Covid then schools should stay shut

 

[Chicken Run]

Wow.

So just about anyone with their own home goes to the back of the queue. Your list seems to display an incredible amount of jealousy and anger to those you see as more fortunate than yourself. I know young people will find the lockdown tough but so will everyone else too. The education thing will either be addressed by kids being held back a year or by being assessed on course work rather than exams with parameters adjusted for the effects of Covid.

Your parents could catch Covid and die within a couple of weeks (hopefully not of course), but if they had the jab they might have another ten years left. I really am struggling with your thinking here.

Priority should be the vulnerable and health workers first, and then work back towards the least vulnerable. Financial position should not be considered at all.

I don’t think [MENTION=232]Simster[/MENTION] is jealous or angry at all, I’m pretty certain he owns his own home mortgaged or not and his wife is a key worker.




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[darkwolf666]

Only the one on my phone. That is a bit off topic isn't it ?

Don’t worry, I think Lamie got the wrong Wolfe...

 

[darkwolf666]

I’m very saddened reading this thread to see expressions like “lived their life” and “boomers” bandied about, as a justification for not vaccinating people.

 

[Chicken Run]

I’m very saddened reading this thread to see expressions like “lived their life” and “boomers” bandied about, as a justification for not vaccinating people.

I see why you would feel sad but the discussion is about who should be priority that’s all, btw hope you and your wife are ok.


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[Westdene Seagull]

My daughter (5) is fortunately going to school two days a week as my wife is a key worker but she's still really suffering. She's not eating properly, she won't sleep, she's miserable, she's anxious. I'm really worried this is going to have a permanent damaging effect on her personality and her mental health. That's why.

I agree. My youngest is 14 and has spent more time at home than at school in the last 10 months. To top it off his elder brother and his Mum are currently confined to bed with Covid. He tested negative but still needs to isolate. Thankfully he always has a positive outlook on life but currently he gets up by himself, he eats all meals by himself ( most of which he has to make ), does his limited online learning before doing the essential jobs in the house like washing and looking after the dog. He NEEDS to go to school to learn and mix with his mates ( obviously once his isolation is up ). The cruelest thing is that he can't come and live with me despite testing negative nor can I go and help him. This is going to affect many kids for years to come.

 

[darkwolf666]

I see why you would feel sad but the discussion is about who should be priority that’s all, btw hope you and your wife are ok.


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That is a massive presumption on your part. I would feel equally saddened by these comments even if my wife didn’t have cancer!

Believing someone should be denied the vaccine or shunted down the order, because “they’ve had a good innings” or are well off is morally wrong,


Edit - thanks for the good wishes, we re fine, despite shielding now for 10 months, and counting!

 

[Seasider78]

Whatever life people have had it is still a life and someone who means a lot to a family. There is also the front line health workers who are witnessing things most of us could not cope with and will no doubt be a lot of PTSD cases.

For me the first wave of vaccines reduces loss of life and that should always be the priority and I don’t want the elderly to live their days out in fear of something they know is a real threat to their life. Once this first vulnerable group are vaccinated I agree there is a debate to be had but I would struggle to understand anyone opposing the current top prioritisation.

For me once the vulnerable categorises are complete it should be those who are working in essential services who are coming into contact with multiple people. This would include teachers, supermarket workers, bus drivers etc. Whilst I have been fortunate enough to work from home these people have been out there day in day out throughout the pandemic in high risk environments with little PPE and deserve the protection the vaccination offers.

 

[Chicken Run]

That is a massive presumption on your part. I would feel equally saddened by these comments even if my wife didn’t have cancer!

Believing someone should be denied the vaccine or shunted down the order, because “they’ve had a good innings” or are well off is morally wrong,


Edit - thanks for the good wishes, we re fine, despite shielding now for 10 months, and counting!

For the record I made no connection to your personal circumstances and simply meant with the degree of discussion [emoji106]


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[Mellotron]

Alternatively...

- The older folks who have 5-20 years life left - let's give them the best possible chance of living that.
- The youngsters who have decades and decades to live - they can afford to put life on pause for a few months.

And that's the long and short of it given where we are now. With a bit of luck on the vaccine/variant front, we'll begin emerging from this terrible period in 3-4 months. We're not talking years and, regardless of what you think we could/should have done 10 months ago, we can't change that now.

I think my learned friend [MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] is likely correct though. Any other strategy does little to throttle the burden on the NHS in the short term, and it's at breaking point already. We just have to give those incredible people in the NHS going through hell day after day the quickest possible escape from that and, by coincidence, doing that is also likely to save thousands of lives.

This. If we were needing a further 1/2+ years to lockdown, I would possibly/probably agree with [MENTION=232]Simster[/MENTION].

As it stands, we're literally a few months from this situation starting to be a shitload better.

 

[darkwolf666]

For the record I made no connection to your personal circumstances and simply meant with the degree of discussion [emoji106]


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Er, not quite sure that’s right. Your inference was that my judgement was being clouded by my own personal circumstances, if that wasn’t the tenet of your argument, why mention...

“I see why you would feel sad but the discussion is about who should be priority that’s all, btw hope you and your wife are ok.”

I don’t really want to carry on an argument, but as I said, I would have held the same views, whatever my circumstances.