[Albion] Club need to be honest about expectations

[garethjamesuk]

I much prefer the way Bloom runs our club than a Man city type way, i would hate Brighton to be like this, just spending money willy nilly as this is very risky long term, what if bloom spent money and then decided to leave and left us with gigantic wage bills the future of our club would be in risk then.
Yes i think he could come out and be more honest with us as a fans and say the expectations and why wages are a issue eg Arsenal did the same for the first 5 years at Emirates but now this season spent a lot of money, when you get a new stadium you have the first 3-5 years losing money but this period now seems over for Arsenal and id expect us to be the same.
I would prefer the money to be spent from Ulloa, so we got 8 million upfront, id like us to spend say 1 to 2 million of this purely upping our wage structure so the max wage is now higher and give relevent players at the club slight wages if need, then i would spend 4 million on new players, we signed ulloa for 2 million so can happen with bargains and then put the other 2 million into the bank for ftp as this is the future of the club and rules exist and im pleased we stick by them.
Yes it is frustrating knowing we need certain players and dont get any for ages, and have got in about 13 million from bridcutt, barnes, ulloa sales so id expect us to get decent quality in, something is wrong with the recruitment side as the players brought in are way too slow and we lose out on a lot of players due to this, so bloom needs to look at all of this and change some things with this money come in from player sales, good season ticket sales and good stadium attendences in general since at Amex and spend wisely but we do need to still compete and to do this he does need to put some money back into the playing side.

 

[Mellotron]

This Premier League Ready thing is just an in-house motto for club staff coined by Barber to ensure that the club infrastructure and way it is run is top notch. From memory it was talked about in one argus article last season; it's hardly been rammed down the throats of fans.

Whether the phrase itself has been used a lot with the fans is almost beside the point - the whole way Barber etc talk about the club, how many awards the stadium has won, how the training facility is one of the best in the country, that IS going to raise expectations WAAAY beyond 6th-13th.

 

[BobbySmith]

I am sure some of this would be put back into the playing side, but I would be very surprised if we spend the £13 million ?(not sure how it is £13 million though ?) on new players. I expect some signings very soon and maybe one 'big' one ??

 

[ropey9]

Instant success - it appears that's what the club are trying to achieve.

In much the same way the Germans did when they revamped their domestic setup 12 years ago.

I think we've been treading water (quite well as it happens) since the Amex. With the final piece of the Jigsaw in place with the impressive training ground we are going to see year on year improvement until we make the PL and stay there quite comfortably, without having to beggar the club.

We may get lucky and do a Burnley or luck in through the playoffs, but how likely will it be that they have the infrastructure and setup in place to stay where they without risking major financial issues when they come back down (Blackburn, Bolton, Brimingham, et al)?

 

[Grombleton]

Whether the phrase itself has been used a lot with the fans is almost beside the point - the whole way Barber etc talk about the club, how many awards the stadium has won, how the training facility is one of the best in the country, that IS going to raise expectations WAAAY beyond 6th-13th.

The thing is, he's caught between a rock and a hard place - he can't come out and say "Oh the stadium and training complex? Well...they're alright, i suppose". It's his job to instil a sense of pride into the fans that we have a superb stadium and we finally have a training complex to be proud of. What he can't do is stop people making the connection that because we have these, it means it will bear instant fruit. The academy will take several years to get to the stage of a Southampton where they have a production line of young prospects and we are only into the 4th year of the stadium whereby they are finally getting the internal infrastructure (catering, club shop etc) to a point where they are benefitting the club and maximising revenue.
We know over the past few years we've been haemorrhaging money and with the new deals and the work towards FFP (regardless of whether FFP sticks, it has helped us be more sustainable which is good in the long term) we can begin to make the playing side up to the level of the other areas of the club. It just doesn't happen over the course of a few days or weeks; we might not as many new players come in that we want, but i'd rather we have a couple of new players who are the right fit for the club than 8 new players bought in for the sake of getting numbers in.

It's like I mentioned in my earlier post; both the club AND the supporters have to be realistic.

 

[Rod Marsh]

It will be interesting to hear what's said at the fans forum meeting that's due to take place on the 5th of August. I wish it was a little earlier so we could hear from them all now.

 

[warmleyseagull]

The TB way is different. He employs managers expecting to keep them; he invests in training facilities for the long-term development of new players; he aims to meet financial rules. I am glad he does because the alternative is short-term gambling on gaining a top two place in a highly competitive league, or the lottery of play-offs.

A lot of people are concentrating on the £8m maximum loss for FFP and forget (or don’t know) two factors:

1. £8m is the maximum loss beyond which clubs are banned from buying in January transfer window but there is a lower limit of £3m beyond which TB has to invest EQUITY (up to maximum £5m). By its very nature, equity is much more difficult for him ever to extract from the club than loans and is potentially taxable as a capital gain. I can understand he would wish to minimize equity investment;
2. More important, the £8m threshold reduces to £6m for 14/15 and £5m 15/16 (see http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/FLExplainedDetail/0,,10794~2748246,00.html) so the club has to continue to reduce costs.
I speculate that TB is playing his hand long; he sees that transfer market and wage demands have not yet caught up with the new reality and is not going to get caught up with ludicrous demands. If this means we have a mid-table season, so be it. Once a few clubs are banned from the market next January, then valuations may start to reduce.

As regards current transfers, it is frustrating that we seem to be behind curve but not only are there the economic factors above, but agents are unwilling to complete deals well before the August deadline in anticipation that prices (and commissions) will increase. The deadline is end August under UEFA rules, which suits continental clubs better as they do not have the ridiculously long season starting early August.

Keep calm, enjoy the weather, and trust in TB!

PS. See GP is at it again: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28469203. Not sure he gets it...

 

[Machiavelli]

There's three excellent posts on this page from garethjamesuk, Grombleton and warmleyseagull. Some people on here should be forced to read them.

 

[bhawoddy]

Best, well thought out, thread I've seen for a long while. Agree with lots of points from different posters......

Hopefully it will remain this way and not turn into a slanging match when someone decides a viewpoint differs dramatically from their own.

One point I would make is that some posters are happy just to play championship football and appear to not want premier league football. For me,that's like having brand new Porsche and not putting petrol in it.

 

[Danny-Boy]

I much prefer the way Bloom runs our club than a Man city type way, i would hate Brighton to be like this, just spending money willy nilly as this is very risky long term, what if bloom spent money and then decided to leave and left us with gigantic wage bills the future of our club would be in risk then.
Yes i think he could come out and be more honest with us as a fans and say the expectations and why wages are a issue eg Arsenal did the same for the first 5 years at Emirates but now this season spent a lot of money, when you get a new stadium you have the first 3-5 years losing money but this period now seems over for Arsenal and id expect us to be the same.
I would prefer the money to be spent from Ulloa, so we got 8 million upfront, id like us to spend say 1 to 2 million of this purely upping our wage structure so the max wage is now higher and give relevent players at the club slight wages if need, then i would spend 4 million on new players, we signed ulloa for 2 million so can happen with bargains and then put the other 2 million into the bank for ftp as this is the future of the club and rules exist and im pleased we stick by them.
Yes it is frustrating knowing we need certain players and dont get any for ages, and have got in about 13 million from bridcutt, barnes, ulloa sales so id expect us to get decent quality in, something is wrong with the recruitment side as the players brought in are way too slow and we lose out on a lot of players due to this, so bloom needs to look at all of this and change some things with this money come in from player sales, good season ticket sales and good stadium attendences in general since at Amex and spend wisely but we do need to still compete and to do this he does need to put some money back into the playing side.

If I was an Albion fan I'd try to make the club be "The Burnley of the South", not the Leeds... but that means holding onto your Manager for longer than a season or two.

 

[phazza]

I'd say it works both ways. The club can have expectations but need to have the resources to meet these expectations. The supporters also need to realise that there may be a myriad of reasons why we haven't signed more people; are the people mentioned here and in the press actual targets? What are the reasons that deals aren't done yet? I think supporters have a 'football manager' mentality still - we identify a player, but it doesn't mean he will sign straight away. I'd happily bet that 95% of supporters haven't the first idea on how to run a club, or negotiate a transfer etc, but its all very easy to say what you want from behind a keyboard.

I can't think of many times that the club has been this transparent with the fans (semi-regular videos with TB, PB replying to pointless email after pointless email) but there are some things that we aren't entitled to - such as the inner workings and details surrounding transfers. Having an ST or being a fan for X years doesn't give us any more entitlement. Plunging money into the club might do, but that's exactly the same as any business; football is no different.

The club need to have some semblance of privacy; the more information they put into the public domain the more chance it will be used against them in transfer dealings - its one of the reasons we never publicise our transfer budget and most transfers are 'undisclosed' We just need to have some faith in that they are doing the best for the club. It's fine to have concerns and to air them, as long as they're thought out and not overly reactionary - which is the issue most people have with the negative supporters; their negativity isn't founded in fact or truth, just assumption. Whether that would change with more info from the club, who knows. I doubt that the board would look kindly on a team running the club that weren't doing their job properly...and we have no idea if they are or aren't so most assumptions (both positive and negative) are just that; assumptions.

I'm just planning to enjoy seeing the club evolve with TB at the helm and seeing Sami instil his style of play and bring in some new players as well as seeing the academy begin to work. If it takes us 1 year to reach the Prem or 10, really doesn't bother me. It won't temper my support for the club regardless.

thank you. it's so nice to read an intelligent arguement on here.

 

[bhawoddy]

Noticing a really decent thread full of good points, well made, only gets a few posters......the absolute tosh threads get a few hundred pages deep. Lol

 

[Rookie]

On the day the club get a cat 1 academy I'd say it's quite clear about the expectations and where they see the future.

 

[Cadiz Seagull]

Sorry Grombleton. I meant to give you a thumbs up but it seems I pressed the wrong tit.

Getting old, you know.

 

[Beach Hut]

So many bedwetters expecting instant success it really beggars belief.

Amnesia has set in with so many fans these days who forgot the gutter this club had to crawl out of.

 

[Ernest]

The lack of signings and significant investment in the squad compared to previous seasons shows exactly what the expectations are for this season

 

[bhawoddy]

So many bedwetters expecting instant success it really beggars belief.

Amnesia has set in with so many fans these days who forgot the gutter this club had to crawl out of.

Noooooooo.........don't ruin a good thread BH, with bed wetter and remember where we came from comments...

 

[Cadiz Seagull]

I didn't read this thread when it first appeared as I assumed it was another moan at the club. But I have now read it, and I honestly don't think I have seen as much sense posted on any thread in all my years reading NSC.

In fact, I'm not sure I'm even in the right place?

 

[Grombleton]

Sorry Grombleton. I meant to give you a thumbs up but it seems I pressed the wrong tit.

Getting old, you know.

It's fine. I was inconsolable for about 10 minutes but i'll be fine

Also...pressed the wrong tit? At least buy me dinner first!

 

[JonCrumplinFootballGenius]

[MENTION=27356]JonCrumplinFootballGenius[/MENTION]: So what you are saying is Tony should go on YouTube and make a public statement...

"Hi everyone. Welcome. The SamTram has only just got under way and I don't want to keep stumping up endless amounts of my own cash supporting the club, therefore the Board and I have agreed that mid table mediocrity is the target this year and will remain the target until we start to get some decent players coming through from the academy. We'd like the players, manager, fans and our opponents to be aware of the board's strategy. Thank you."

Nah just something along the lines of... "The club has been on an incredible journey since we arrived at the Amex, we have come close to promotion to the Premier League in the past two seasons. Our ultimate ambition is to reach the Premier League one day, but we recognise that we will not get there overnight without the finances of some of our rivals. Our appointment of Sami is a commitment to a long term philosophy of playing an exciting brand of football and developing players through our huge investment in our infastructure. Our plan is a long term one, and it will take time, but we are confident we are well set for growth whilst being able to live within our means. The support at the Amex has been absolutely incredible, and our fans will play a huge role in the success of the club going forward. We will always look to bring in players that will improve us - but both the Board and Sami fully recognise that our future is going to be built on a foundation of youth - and we look forward to developing top class talent that will help us achieve our Premier League dream'.

^^
I know a lot of that has been said in the past by different people including Bloom and Barber - but I'd like to see that as the line to take from the Board, Sami and everyone that works at the club this season - not least so we avoid another Poyet / Garcia situation and it takes the pressure off both Sami and the Players.

NB this wasn't meant to be a critical OP - just a constructive one.