[News] China protests over Zero-Covid policy

[Guinness Boy]

Whatever they call themselves, they're not communists in any meaningful way.

It's an odd situation. They'll tell you they are but that's just a matter of "face" mainly. The Communists won the post WW2 Civil War sending Chaing Kai Shek's nationalist KMT off to Taiwan and slowly starved the population by trying to make city dwelling intellectuals into rice growing peasants and starving the country. Great Leap Forward my hairy arse. But even in the late 80s they were still all wearing Mao hats and scratchy coats and driving everywhere on bicycles and rural peasants were still regularly starving.

So, eventually, the people went "f*** this" and Tiananmen Square happened. Just around the time the Berlin Wall was coming down and the USSR was breaking up and Romania was chucking out Ceausescu. Communism was collapsing.

With the KMT doing rather well in Taiwan manufacturing the world's crap the appearance of Communist victory on the mainline had to be maintained, and it is today in the Party's structure. There was no way the Communist name was disappearing.

The Economic philosophy was gone at that point though but, as per my earlier post on here, an authoritarian government is absolutely crucial to running a place as large as China. You can't do it without control. And with control comes zero freedom of speech and lots of disappearing people. And with the replacement of economic socialism with taking over the crap manufacture from Taiwan comes destroying the planet.

It's just slightly disappointing that @Swansman who has in the past been supposedly a socialist, ecologist and humanist is now defending a regime that is destroying the planet and human beings at an astonishing speed and who has in the past derided lockdown is defending a government that is still locking down. I guess the World Cup writing must have dried up.

 

[Swansman]

Zero freedom of speech for the proles, for a start.

There's nothing in the communist ideology that prevents free speech.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

There's nothing in the communist ideology that prevents free speech.

Unless it doesn’t disagree with the party line. How much free speech is allowed in North Korea?

 

[Swansman]

It's an odd situation. They'll tell you they are but that's just a matter of "face" mainly. The Communists won the post WW2 Civil War sending Chaing Kai Shek's nationalist KMT off to Taiwan and slowly starved the population by trying to make city dwelling intellectuals into rice growing peasants and starving the country. Great Leap Forward my hairy arse. But even in the late 80s they were still all wearing Mao hats and scratchy coats and driving everywhere on bicycles and rural peasants were still regularly starving.

So, eventually, the people went "f*** this" and Tiananmen Square happened. Just around the time the Berlin Wall was coming down and the USSR was breaking up and Romania was chucking out Ceausescu. Communism was collapsing.

With the KMT doing rather well in Taiwan manufacturing the world's crap the appearance of Communist victory on the mainline had to be maintained, and it is today in the Party's structure. There was no way the Communist name was disappearing.

The Economic philosophy was gone at that point though but, as per my earlier post on here, an authoritarian government is absolutely crucial to running a place as large as China. You can't do it without control. And with control comes zero freedom of speech and lots of disappearing people. And with the replacement of economic socialism with taking over the crap manufacture from Taiwan comes destroying the planet.

It's just slightly disappointing that @Swansman who has in the past been supposedly a socialist, ecologist and humanist is now defending a regime that is destroying the planet and human beings at an astonishing speed and who has in the past derided lockdown is defending a government that is still locking down. I guess the World Cup writing must have dried up.

The world is yet to see a communist country actually being communist, similar to how it yet to see a conservative country being conservative or a liberal country being liberal.

Yes, I think Mao actually tried to create a real communist state but he made too many mistakes and went too quick. Power struggles of the 70s stopped any further steps towards communism and when Mao died and Deng eventually took over, communism was dead in China. They never got all the way, if they were even ever going to get there.

You say that the Chinese regime is destroying the planet and that is true, we outsourced the destruction of the planet while still reaping the benefits (you may have something made in China in your house). If they wouldn't, someone else would - maybe we'd still be industrialised, maybe we'd just put it somewhere else than the big Asian countries.

But the Chinese way is also the only way of saving the planet. Very few countries in this world has managed to pull of the large scale changes China has in the recent decades, and this will be necessary for the entire world to do. It can most likely only be done by aquiring the same level of totalitarian control as they have. When they decide to go environmental-friendly, they'll do it fast. Just like they out-industrialised us, they will "out-environmentalise" us. It will take them like a decade or two to go all green.

China is not the most human friendly country, it is not the most moral, it is not the most free. But it is the most functional. It is near optimal when it comes to control, and will be optimal in due time.

The rest of the world won't be able to go different about it: the way we do it now is too inefficient, too slow.

We're going to become very, very similar to the Chinese totalitarian fascist society - this IS the conspiracy I've been talking about for years, the conspiracy described in the non-linked link in my signature: we're all going to live in a totalitarian fascist state, because it is the most efficient, the most controlled and the most sustainable way of running the world.

When the Chinese started building their next-level control society, one which you can not escape or overthrow, they appointed - for the first time in 30+ years - someone from another political party in the role as Technology Minister. This someone, Wan Gang, represents an organisation - the Tiandihui (also known as the Freemasons) - that exists everywhere on this planet, and which has a plan for the future of humanity and the planet we live on.

This is why China is interesting. They are the first country to truly take this step toward a sustainable, fascist future that sooner or later we will all live in. And I respect that: it is not good for me, it is not good for humanity as I've learnt to know it, but its the only way forward and will save the species and earth. From a pragmatic viewpoint, what they are doing is astonishing. Make no mistake, we are only one or two decades from social credits, social grid surveillance and other technologies that make sure we're living a sustainable, monotonous and non-creative life. Its a horror and a beauty.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

The world is yet to see a communist country actually being communist, similar to how it yet to see a conservative country being conservative or a liberal country being liberal.

Yes, I think Mao actually tried to create a real communist state but he made too many mistakes and went too quick. Power struggles of the 70s stopped any further steps towards communism and when Mao died and Deng eventually took over, communism was dead in China. They never got all the way, if they were even ever going to get there.

You say that the Chinese regime is destroying the planet and that is true, we outsourced the destruction of the planet while still reaping the benefits (you may have something made in China in your house). If they wouldn't, someone else would - maybe we'd still be industrialised, maybe we'd just put it somewhere else than the big Asian countries.

But the Chinese way is also the only way of saving the planet. Very few countries in this world has managed to pull of the large scale changes China has in the recent decades, and this will be necessary for the entire world to do. It can most likely only be done by aquiring the same level of totalitarian control as they have. When they decide to go environmental-friendly, they'll do it fast. Just like they out-industrialised us, they will "out-environmentalise" us. It will take them like a decade or two to go all green.

China is not the most human friendly country, it is not the most moral, it is not the most free. But it is the most functional. It is near optimal when it comes to control, and will be optimal in due time.

The rest of the world won't be able to go different about it: the way we do it now is too inefficient, too slow.

We're going to become very, very similar to the Chinese totalitarian fascist society - this IS the conspiracy I've been talking about for years, the conspiracy described in the non-linked link in my signature: we're all going to live in a totalitarian fascist state, because it is the most efficient, the most controlled and the most sustainable way of running the world.

When the Chinese started building their next-level control society, one which you can not escape or overthrow, they appointed - for the first time in 30+ years - someone from another political party in the role as Technology Minister. This someone, Wan Gang, represents an organisation - the Tiandihui (also known as the Freemasons) - that exists everywhere on this planet, and which has a plan for the future of humanity and the planet we live on.

This is why China is interesting. They are the first country to truly take this step toward a sustainable, fascist future that sooner or later we will all live in. And I respect that: it is not good for me, it is not good for humanity as I've learnt to know it, but its the only way forward and will save the species and earth. From a pragmatic viewpoint, what they are doing is astonishing. Make no mistake, we are only one or two decades from social credits, social grid surveillance and other technologies that make sure we're living a sustainable, monotonous and non-creative life. Its a horror and a beauty.

Move away from the keyboard.

 

[Swansman]

Unless it doesn’t disagree with the party line. How much free speech is allowed in North Korea?

North Korea is not a communist country because they don't follow the communist ideology.

Do you realise that a country is not communist, democratic or whatever it calls itself just because it says it is? There is no country that lives up to the common, even if you stretch it, definitions of what communism is, meaning there are no communists. I'm not the King of England even if I would say I am, and China/NK are not communist states even if they say they are.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

(I disagree ) - I think shooting people at any point in any country for demonstrating can certainly serve a long term purpose of enforcing a belief that protest will ultimately effect nothing but a tightening up of security and an increased likelihood of being imprisoned or shot.

As regards your other point - I think perhaps you have more trust in the ability of the ’Party Faithful’ to overturn a dictatorial leadership than I do (we’ve been saying the same of Putin and his invasion of Ukraine but he’s still very much in power) - but even if that were to happen in China and XI or his replacement reversed the lock down policy - what are they going do? - allow millions of non-vaccinated people into high density city areas, free to travel all over China and the World?

There could be an enormous loss of life, an extraordinarily high level of work absenteeism due to sickness and complete collapse of healthcare availability - the implications of that are potentially profound impacts on the global economy and Chinese imports as the workforce producing and shipping goods to the West become significantly diminished - this isn’t cheap consumer goods but medical supplies, high end technology equipment and even defence supplies. Bearing in mind the upward spiral of deaths from the first strains in Europe before vaccines were available - China is now dealing with substantially more variants some of which have a much higher transmissibility than others.

XI has fcuked up big time in his handling of the Covid pandemic and is now caught between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea - but getting rid of him for someone who will end the lockdown zero-covid policy without widespread vaccination and with China having one of the fastest aging population on earth, most of whom live with younger family members, the outcome could be as equally devastating as keeping people in lockdown.

A way forward for China could maybe

1. end the ‘wet markets’ that only serve as a petri dish for zoonotic viruses such as Covid and
2. ask the West to help with a widespread emergency vaccination programme

Two things that will probably never happen but would make a sensible precondition of ending XIs lockdowns.

I personally don’t think the protests will make one iota of difference to XI’s Covid policy - and even with the relatively mild clampdown, confiscating phones, rough handling foreign journalists the protests already seem to have been largely curtailed.

Hmm - That does seem to be based on empirical evidence

The Chinese monolith allows someone to lead for a bit, then, if they f*** up, they are removed.

Post communist Russia is a gangster state 'run' by the least drunk psychopath who kills enough rivals quickly to float like a lonely turd to the top.

Apart from that, I agree with your comments

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Unless it doesn’t disagree with the party line. How much free speech is allowed in North Korea?

Bit of a stretch labeling N Korea as communist. Hereditary monarchy dictatorship would be my take.

I appreciate that communism requires there be a one party state, but within that party there are supposed to be free and fair elections.

This is why some people float the trope that there has never been a true communist state. The executive changes the rules about who can vote for what as soon as they assume the mantle of power.

I would also argue that Communism would never work anyway. As soon as a one-system state is imposed, even with free and fair elections for all the positions of responsibility, it will soon reduce to AN Other human carve-up, manipulated by the most venal and ruthless, except without the party badging that allows us in the UK some sort of identifiable choice of sorts.

 

[beorhthelm]

ah, see we've reach "no true communism" stage.

 

[Swansman]

ah, see we've reach "no true communism" stage.

Yeah that is what happens when people believe Joseph McCarthys definition of communism has anything to do with communism, rather than reading up on the communist ideology. I've met very few anti-communists who know what communism is.

 

[The Clamp]

 

[Zeberdi]

Yeah that is what happens when people believe Joseph McCarthys definition of communism has anything to do with communism, rather than reading up on the communist ideology. I've met very few anti-communists who know what communism is.

or Marxism for that matter

 

[Swansman]

*another very big picture*

Any particular purpose with posting these giant pictures covering the entire screen?

 

[The Clamp]

I see we have circled back round to nutty conspiracy theories.

Britain is heading into a more and more libertarian model. We don’t have a fascist government. We have a greedy, inept government. They don’t like protest but that’s because it exposes their greed.

The world is not going the way of China. It never will. And please nobody counter this by saying I have been brainwashed to not see the signs. To not see what is happening.

No. I don’t see it because it’s not happening.

 

[BN41Albion]

The world is yet to see a communist country actually being communist, similar to how it yet to see a conservative country being conservative or a liberal country being liberal.

Yes, I think Mao actually tried to create a real communist state but he made too many mistakes and went too quick. Power struggles of the 70s stopped any further steps towards communism and when Mao died and Deng eventually took over, communism was dead in China. They never got all the way, if they were even ever going to get there.

You say that the Chinese regime is destroying the planet and that is true, we outsourced the destruction of the planet while still reaping the benefits (you may have something made in China in your house). If they wouldn't, someone else would - maybe we'd still be industrialised, maybe we'd just put it somewhere else than the big Asian countries.

But the Chinese way is also the only way of saving the planet. Very few countries in this world has managed to pull of the large scale changes China has in the recent decades, and this will be necessary for the entire world to do. It can most likely only be done by aquiring the same level of totalitarian control as they have. When they decide to go environmental-friendly, they'll do it fast. Just like they out-industrialised us, they will "out-environmentalise" us. It will take them like a decade or two to go all green.

China is not the most human friendly country, it is not the most moral, it is not the most free. But it is the most functional. It is near optimal when it comes to control, and will be optimal in due time.

The rest of the world won't be able to go different about it: the way we do it now is too inefficient, too slow.

We're going to become very, very similar to the Chinese totalitarian fascist society - this IS the conspiracy I've been talking about for years, the conspiracy described in the non-linked link in my signature: we're all going to live in a totalitarian fascist state, because it is the most efficient, the most controlled and the most sustainable way of running the world.

When the Chinese started building their next-level control society, one which you can not escape or overthrow, they appointed - for the first time in 30+ years - someone from another political party in the role as Technology Minister. This someone, Wan Gang, represents an organisation - the Tiandihui (also known as the Freemasons) - that exists everywhere on this planet, and which has a plan for the future of humanity and the planet we live on.

This is why China is interesting. They are the first country to truly take this step toward a sustainable, fascist future that sooner or later we will all live in. And I respect that: it is not good for me, it is not good for humanity as I've learnt to know it, but its the only way forward and will save the species and earth. From a pragmatic viewpoint, what they are doing is astonishing. Make no mistake, we are only one or two decades from social credits, social grid surveillance and other technologies that make sure we're living a sustainable, monotonous and non-creative life. Its a horror and a beauty.

I'd give the smoking a break if I were you...

 

[Swansman]

I'd give the smoking a break if I were you...

Originality score: 1/10.

 

[The Clamp]

Any particular purpose with posting these giant pictures covering the entire screen?

It's a conspiracy. I'm sworn to secrecy.

 

[Guinness Boy]

The world is yet to see a communist country actually being communist, similar to how it yet to see a conservative country being conservative or a liberal country being liberal.

Yes, I think Mao actually tried to create a real communist state but he made too many mistakes and went too quick. Power struggles of the 70s stopped any further steps towards communism and when Mao died and Deng eventually took over, communism was dead in China. They never got all the way, if they were even ever going to get there.

You say that the Chinese regime is destroying the planet and that is true, we outsourced the destruction of the planet while still reaping the benefits (you may have something made in China in your house). If they wouldn't, someone else would - maybe we'd still be industrialised, maybe we'd just put it somewhere else than the big Asian countries.

But the Chinese way is also the only way of saving the planet. Very few countries in this world has managed to pull of the large scale changes China has in the recent decades, and this will be necessary for the entire world to do. It can most likely only be done by aquiring the same level of totalitarian control as they have. When they decide to go environmental-friendly, they'll do it fast. Just like they out-industrialised us, they will "out-environmentalise" us. It will take them like a decade or two to go all green.

China is not the most human friendly country, it is not the most moral, it is not the most free. But it is the most functional. It is near optimal when it comes to control, and will be optimal in due time.

The rest of the world won't be able to go different about it: the way we do it now is too inefficient, too slow.

We're going to become very, very similar to the Chinese totalitarian fascist society - this IS the conspiracy I've been talking about for years, the conspiracy described in the non-linked link in my signature: we're all going to live in a totalitarian fascist state, because it is the most efficient, the most controlled and the most sustainable way of running the world.

When the Chinese started building their next-level control society, one which you can not escape or overthrow, they appointed - for the first time in 30+ years - someone from another political party in the role as Technology Minister. This someone, Wan Gang, represents an organisation - the Tiandihui (also known as the Freemasons) - that exists everywhere on this planet, and which has a plan for the future of humanity and the planet we live on.

This is why China is interesting. They are the first country to truly take this step toward a sustainable, fascist future that sooner or later we will all live in. And I respect that: it is not good for me, it is not good for humanity as I've learnt to know it, but its the only way forward and will save the species and earth. From a pragmatic viewpoint, what they are doing is astonishing. Make no mistake, we are only one or two decades from social credits, social grid surveillance and other technologies that make sure we're living a sustainable, monotonous and non-creative life. Its a horror and a beauty.

Of course I have something made in China. The iPhone I use to post on NSC from time to time was likely made there. It's one of the reasons that from a global economic POV the zero Covid policy isn't great, another inflationary pressure. Not, perhaps, great for those ordinary workers who feed their families by making this stuff either though . But then again, I haven't spent an NSC career defending middle class Tabithas gluing themselves to the M25.

The rest of your post is nonsense.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

…

 

[raymondo]