[Football] Call me old fashioned....

[RossyG]

The proportion of engineers who are women in the UK is the lowest in Europe. It's also dramatically lower than in India, for example. So even if there are intrinsic reasons for women being drawn towards particular subjects, there are clearly cultural and social reasons for the scale of the disparity in this country. Either that or female babies in the UK are having their genetics altered at birth.

Is it 50-50 in any country?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Having not watched football from that era and not have nostalgia goggles or having an emotional connection to that era of football really makes me hate 80s football. I much much prefer todays football as the 80s football just reminds me of league 2.

You hate something you've not watched?

Christ. I mean I made it at least 45 seconds into a Rick Astley video before deciding it was dogshit.

 

[Lenny Rider]

If they wanted to celebrate International Women’s Day then why not show a women’s football match instead of this one?

Because ratings would be on a par with a TOTP 2 Gary Glitter special.

 

[RossyG]

Because ratings would be on a par with a TOTP 2 Gary Glitter special.

Haha! Exactly! Empty posturing as long as it doesn’t hurt the bottom line.

 

[Questions]

These days if you say you're a middle-aged male, you get arrested and thrown in jail.

These days

 

[highflyer]

Is it 50-50 in any country?

Well a quick google tells me for engineering graduates:

• Algeria 48.5%
• Peru 47.5%
• Uruguay 45.9%
• Syria 43.9%
• Tunisia 44.2%
• Morocco 42.2%
• Cuba 41.7%

Also:

In the EU 41% of scientists and engineers are women. But women outnumber men in those professions in Lithuania, Bulgaria, Latvia, Portugal and Denmark, as well as in non-EU member Norway.

UK is some way behind it seems.

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

Is it 50-50 in any country?

I doubt it, but if you want a proper breakdown of the statistics you'll have to persuade Swansman to get on the case, I'm only on my lunch break.

It's also not particularly relevant to the conversation. If you were to create a perfect utopia where men and women had exactly the same opportunities in life and carried the same responsibilities for child care and domestic work, then there may well still be a disparity in certain professions. There wouldn't be any reason for women to be underrepresented at the top level of almost all professions though, as they are now.

Given that utopia doesn't exist anywhere in the world, it's not really worth looking for a 50/50 split in other countries. It should be concerning though that the UK does so badly in this regard compared to other countries. And while I know the STEM subjects make a great deal of effort to encourage women to carry on into further education, that's weighed against several hundred years worth of cultural norms and an existing preponderance of men on those subjects putting them off.

To get back to your original point, I imagine that most people would be quite happy with a healthy work/home life split. Unfortunately most people are forced to either work, or work and look after children at the same time. The number who get the option of choosing how they'd like to balance it is tiny.

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

Well a quick google tells me for engineering graduates:

• Algeria 48.5%
• Peru 47.5%
• Uruguay 45.9%
• Syria 43.9%
• Tunisia 44.2%
• Morocco 42.2%
• Cuba 41.7%

Also:

In the EU 41% of scientists and engineers are women. But women outnumber men in those professions in Lithuania, Bulgaria, Latvia, Portugal and Denmark, as well as in non-EU member Norway.

UK is some way behind it seems.

Glad somebody's more energetic in getting sources for their arguments than I am.

 

[DarrenFreemansPerm]

All female panel on BT for Chelsea v Everton.

Really?

Football is disappearing up its own backside.

If you think that’s bad what would you make of the club buying football boot washing machines at £4000 a pop...

 

[highflyer]

Glad somebody's more energetic in getting sources for their arguments than I am.

30 seconds on google, 30 seconds cut and paste.

I should probably add a proviso that I cannot guarantee my sources are fully watertight and peer reviewed though.

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

30 seconds on google, 30 seconds cut and paste.

I should probably add a proviso that I cannot guarantee my sources are fully watertight and peer reviewed though.

I only trust fully peer reviewed wikipedia articles.

 

[highflyer]

I only trust fully peer reviewed wikipedia articles.

Yeah, I should also have counted the extra minutes I spent editing the wikipedia article to fit my argument, and then peer reviewing it myself, before quoting it.

 

[RossyG]

30 seconds on google, 30 seconds cut and paste.

I should probably add a proviso that I cannot guarantee my sources are fully watertight and peer reviewed though.

Assuming they are, why is this the case?

Is it that women have more choice in Algeria or, conversely, less choice? Are a lot of Humanities degrees unavailable over there? If so that’s definitely one up to Algeria for prioritising the practical.

I’m still unconvinced by the generations of societal expectations argument though. I’d have thought women have traditionally been freer here than in Algeria.

 

[blue-shifted]

Don't know who else was on but Alex Scott MBE has 140 caps for England and represented GB at 2012 Olympics. I think that gives her some kind of understanding of the game, don't you?

And since when did you have to be a sports superstar to commentate on sport? How many boxing world titles did Harry Carpenter win? How many FA Cups were won by Motty? How many Olympic ice skating gold medals did Barry Davies win?

Your argument is puerile and pathetic.

Remember to distinguish between presenter, commentator and analyst roles though

You don't need to have had a decent career to be a good presenter (though some have) or a good commentator, (none have). But the analyst role requires credibility. This can be gained though a variety of sources, but it's not conceivable that an analyst on a top level match hasn't been a player. Almost all will have been top level players.

Here I think the question is valid. The best ones can provide insights gleaned from knowing or having played against the players and have played at the top level in the modern era.

The further are you are from these insights, either because, you've not played at the top level, or it was ages ago, or you've been in a different league, the harder it is to provide genuine insight and the less credibility you'll have. This is the same for men and women, but it means that women will start from further back as they won't have played and are less likely to know the players.

 

[hart's shirt]

International Women's Day - so that's why the panel was all women

Quite possibly.

And according to today's BBC Sport article, this is apparently International Women's Week.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56217185

 

[JC Footy Genius]

These days if you say you're a middle-aged male, you get arrested and thrown in jail.

Funnily enough, that's one of the favourite tropes used by middle-aged males who have been indoctrinated/castrated and now fully support this 'positive'' discrimination quota-driven bollox.

 

[Washie]

You hate something you've not watched?

Christ. I mean I made it at least 45 seconds into a Rick Astley video before deciding it was dogshit.

I have watched it, I have looked through football from that time. I just never watched it when it happened, I should have specified. I do apologise.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

Assuming they are, why is this the case?

Is it that women have more choice in Algeria or, conversely, less choice? Are a lot of Humanities degrees unavailable over there? If so that’s definitely one up to Algeria for prioritising the practical.

I’m still unconvinced by the generations of societal expectations argument though. I’d have thought women have traditionally been freer here than in Algeria.

Given the number and range of countries for which this is the case, I can't be bothered to look into why it's the case for any single one. Very broad brush though, in this country the words scientist/engineer probably bring to mind an image of a boring man with pencils in his chest pocket, which isn't going to be appealing to women (or a large proportion of men for that matter).

Depending on how you're defining "traditional", it's also worth remembering that in this country women have historically been unable to own their own property, haven't been allowed to sit academic exams, and have been excluded from many professional institutions. Obviously that's improved over the last hundred years or so to where we are now, but unfortunately these aren't the sort of issues which disappear overnight. Hence why people still need to complain and campaign about it.

I'd also point out that, unfortunately, plenty of countries around the world have moved in the opposite direction, so plenty of countries where women's rights are worse than in the UK now, were comparable or even better in that regard in the past.

 

[Falmer Wizard]

Glad I missed that. We are living through a strange period of over- balancing.

Too True,With the large number of games being shown i can check to see which games i can avoid, should there be a particular game i did not want to miss i turn down the volume so that i am not distracted from the game.I feel so sorry for the real pundits who have to discuss the finer points of the game.
I also object to newspaper reports which are headed Man Untd or Albion but in fact are items regarding female footballers

 

[Falmer Wizard]

I didn`t see it tonight but everytime i have seen it it goes something like a game i saw at the end of last year .
Watching a woman try to tell two players how Liverpool got it wrong when Graeme Souness is one of the panel members and a current player who plays against these same players week in week out is ridiculous . It would be like me telling a woman i know exactly how child birth feels .

You are spot on!!!!!