[Politics] Brexit

[CheeseRolls]

A 15 pager from Japan - This is the reality of Brexit. It can't be ignored, it can't be dismissed.

http://www.mofa.go.jp/files/000185466.pdf

There are two versions of Brexit.

The one that closes the door on immigration.
The one that retains a common market, but removes much of European control over our legislature.

There may be some movement at the edges, but I can see little chance of any meaningful compromise. A second referendum on the terms of exit, would strongly favour the latter.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Well done for having a different if equally deluded reason though.

Your ability to describe my reason as delusional when you don't know what it is tell us everything we need to know about your debating approach.

Anyway, I'm off to the Ram for lunch. The best of British. Unlike some of the arguments on here.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

100% incorrect. If everyone had voted it would have been a solid remain. We all know it. As it would be on a second ref.

Interesting article on pro remain BBC there other day stated that the latest polls showed voters who had voted either remain or leave were still entrenched in their views. That more than implies the result of your fanciful second referendum would remain the same.

 

[Soulman]

Our own political class, in its contempt for democracy, does little to restore its reputation. On Friday Nicola Sturgeon launched a “new conversation” about Scottish independence, an idea handsomely rejected two years ago. Could we finish the old conversation first? What would Scotland’s currency be if it were independent? How would it join the EU? And another point has become more prevalent since we last discussed this matter: the £15bn annual deficit Scotland runs.


When I last wrote about Ms Sturgeon I was inundated by emails from Scottish readers about their growing disillusion with her, and how more and more Scots were seeing through her. Ruth Davidson, the Tory leader there, should go in for the kill. Of course, Ms Sturgeon is not the only politician who’d like to ignore democracy.


In the last seven days Owen Smith, the Labour leadership contender; Lord O’Donnell. the former Cabinet secretary; Tim Farron, the Lib Dem leader; and Tony Blair, a former prime minister, have all suggested another EU referendum. Get over it, men. While we’re at it, why not re-run the last general election until we get another Leftist coalition of the sort with which so many politicians seem to feel comfortable?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/04/why-do-our-politicians-hate-democracy-so-very-much/



It isn't often that the electorate gets to tell the filth in parliament what it wants. Parliament wants to remain, the people want to leave. Having to do what the electorate wants is one reason they really hate democracy

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Our own political class, in its contempt for democracy, does little to restore its reputation. On Friday Nicola Sturgeon launched a “new conversation” about Scottish independence, an idea handsomely rejected two years ago. Could we finish the old conversation first? What would Scotland’s currency be if it were independent? How would it join the EU? And another point has become more prevalent since we last discussed this matter: the £15bn annual deficit Scotland runs.


When I last wrote about Ms Sturgeon I was inundated by emails from Scottish readers about their growing disillusion with her, and how more and more Scots were seeing through her. Ruth Davidson, the Tory leader there, should go in for the kill. Of course, Ms Sturgeon is not the only politician who’d like to ignore democracy.


In the last seven days Owen Smith, the Labour leadership contender; Lord O’Donnell. the former Cabinet secretary; Tim Farron, the Lib Dem leader; and Tony Blair, a former prime minister, have all suggested another EU referendum. Get over it, men. While we’re at it, why not re-run the last general election until we get another Leftist coalition of the sort with which so many politicians seem to feel comfortable?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/04/why-do-our-politicians-hate-democracy-so-very-much/



It isn't often that the electorate gets to tell the filth in parliament what it wants. Parliament wants to remain, the people want to leave. Having to do what the electorate wants is one reason they really hate democracy

That lot can **** right off, we are not having a second referendum. Wonder when they are going to just accept the fact we had a democratic vote and the people voted to Leave. Or though not much has changed, we haven't had World War Three as some where predicting, and or though things might change later, it's a nice thought knowing we will not be dictated too by those wankers in Brussels.

 

[Two Professors]

Sturgeon's new conversation with this lot won't last long;



Looks like support for the EU has just about dried up in Scotland-just a few diehard losers

 

[drew]

Interesting article on pro remain BBC there other day stated that the latest polls showed voters who had voted either remain or leave were still entrenched in their views. That more than implies the result of your fanciful second referendum would remain the same.

Does it? What about those that didn't vote last time. If there were a second referendum, who's to say there wouldn't be a bigger turnout which may or may not change the vote. There are all sorts of permutations, people who voted to leave just to give the establishment a black eye, those that wanted to leave but didn't even both to vote because they thought they would lose and those that didn't turn out to vote remain because they also thought it was a forgone conclusion!

 

[Surf's Up]

That lot can **** right off, we are not having a second referendum. Wonder when they are going to just accept the fact we had a democratic vote and the people voted to Leave. Or though not much has changed, we haven't had World War Three as some where predicting, and or though things might change later, it's a nice thought knowing we will not be dictated too by those wankers in Brussels.

The worm will turn my friend. Just wait and see.

 

[The Clamp]

Whatever happens, the leave voters won't get what they think they were voting for. Fact.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Whatever happens, the leave voters won't get what they think they were voting for. Fact.

Equally, had we voted remain, whatever would have, happened the remain voters wouldn't get what they voted for. Fact.

 

[The Clamp]

Equally, had we voted remain, whatever would have, happened the remain voters wouldn't get what they voted for. Fact.

Well, they would have done because a remain vote is essentially a vote for the status quo. When one researches properly, one finds the EU does FAR more good than harm and being a logical chap, I went with that. They do more for the UK than the UK government will ever do for the UK flying solo. It's just a fact.
A leave vote was a vote for changes. A vote for the UK to run itself. A vote for the poor to be better represented. A vote to save money and spend it on UK causes. A vote to curb immigration. None of which will happen. It's just a fact.

 

[Hampster Gull]

the comments on here...btw a second referendum is fact as the one held this year was our second referendum...the scots choose how not the english...the leavers are the ines who keep going on about it ( see an earlier posting)...

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Well, they would have done because a remain vote is essentially a vote for the status quo. When one researches properly, one finds the EU does FAR more good than harm and being a logical chap, I went with that. They do more for the UK than the UK government will ever do for the UK flying solo. It's just a fact.
A leave vote was a vote for changes. A vote for the UK to run itself. A vote for the poor to be better represented. A vote to save money and spend it on UK causes. A vote to curb immigration. None of which will happen. It's just a fact.

The remain or leave vote is NOT a vote for the status quo in my opinion. If you think the EU can stay the same, especially with the enlargement of the past ten or so years and with the migration issue, then you are sadly mistaken. The vote was simple, do you want to remain and continue with the development of the EU (and no one can say what that will look like) or leave and have self determination (no one knows what that will look like either!).

As for the rest of what you have said? Wow, so arrogant. You think you are able to arbitrarily decide that the EU is a force for good, that is all well and good. Unfortunately for you, more people in a democratic vote didn't share your opinion. Again, that is democracy, but I wouldn't expect a hardened EU supporter to respect that so I shouldn't be surprised.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Your ability to describe my reason as delusional when you don't know what it is tell us everything we need to know about your debating approach.

Anyway, I'm off to the Ram for lunch. The best of British. Unlike some of the arguments on here.

After your hundreds of posts on this topic, many directly debating with moi, it would be rude (and as you know I dislike rudeness) if I had not taken onboard your pov and formed an opinion of your reasons/reasoning. Is that the royal 'we'?

Enjoy your lunch.

 

[The Clamp]

The remain or leave vote is NOT a vote for the status quo in my opinion. If you think the EU can stay the same, especially with the enlargement of the past ten or so years and with the migration issue, then you are sadly mistaken. The vote was simple, do you want to remain and continue with the development of the EU (and no one can say what that will look like) or leave and have self determination (no one knows what that will look like either!).

As for the rest of what you have said? Wow, so arrogant. You think you are able to arbitrarily decide that the EU is a force for good, that is all well and good. Unfortunately for you, more people in a democratic vote didn't share your opinion. Again, that is democracy, but I wouldn't expect a hardened EU supporter to respect that so I shouldn't be surprised.

Uhm, wow. I think I am perfectly capable of deciding whether I think the EU is overall a force for good. Arbitrarily? Nothing of the sort. That's why we had a vote wasn't it? Sums up why I think what I think about Brexiteers!

Democracy can fail us. Watch the documentary Welcome To Leith to see exactly how the lunatics can DEMOCRATICALLY take over the asylum. Frightening.

 

[Triggaaar]

Well, they would have done because a remain vote is essentially a vote for the status quo.

Are you for real? Would you suggest that each time we have a general election, the number of people that don't vote are added to the total of those that voted for the government? It's difficult to have a serious conversation when you're being so ridiculous.

When one researches properly, one finds the EU does FAR more good than harm and being a logical chap, I went with that. They do more for the UK than the UK government will ever do for the UK flying solo. It's just a fact.

No it isn't.

A leave vote was a vote for changes. A vote for the UK to run itself. A vote for the poor to be better represented. A vote to save money and spend it on UK causes. A vote to curb immigration. None of which will happen. It's just a fact.

No it isn't.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Whatever happens, the leave voters won't get what they think they were voting for. Fact.

As they were voting to leave the EU (the clue was in the question) I think your fact might be a bit inaccurate.

 

[The Clamp]

Are you for real? Would you suggest that each time we have a general election, the number of people that don't vote are added to the total of those that voted for the government? It's difficult to have a serious conversation when you're being so ridiculous.

No it isn't.
No it isn't.

"Are you for real? Would you suggest that each time we have a general election, the number of people that don't vote are added to the total of those that voted for the government? It's difficult to have a serious conversation when you're being so ridiculous".

What on earth are you talking about? Where have I said that? Clue: Nowhere.



You're wrong and from this post it's clear you will never get it and I cannot be bothered to explain further.

 

[Triggaaar]

What on earth are you talking about?

Well this is embarrassing. Looking back at the posts I'd read, it appears I've completely misread them Sorry

 

[The Clamp]

Well this is embarrassing. Looking back at the posts I'd read, it appears I've completely misread them Sorry

Not a problem, easily done with my posts