[Politics] Brexit

[Deleted member 22389]

Trouble with many people is that they are not living at the sharp end of Eastern European migration. The numbers have been relatively small down here, but when you get 8 people living in a small terraced house designed for four people living opposite you, like I had in Luton, it changes your complete perspective on things. There is really no benefit to our economy here. Chances are they where probably on low wages with topped up benefits. Our politicians don't see that part and nor do some on here.

 

[Jim in the West]

Obviously I can understand why so many leavers are scared of another referendum, in the form of an endorsement of any negotiated deal - they'd be absolutely trounced now that facts are coming out, and some of the leavers have backtracked on their promises. No, £350m per week won't be going into the NHS. And no, leaving the EU will not make a blind bit of difference to immigration levels.

But I just wish they'd stop insisting anyone who wants this vote is "undemocratic". It really isn't. Firstly, this isn't a general election where we can boot out the wrong decision in 5 years time. Secondly, Farage himself was insisting this wasn't over if the result was close. Are we supposed to ignore that, now that it turns out the close result was the other way? Thirdly, we are a parliamentary democracy. There was clearly an assumption that a straight forward referendum would be respected, but this is ridiculously tight and would change our position FOREVER. Finally, the entire campaign on both sides has been built on lies and mis-truths rather than fact. That is why we have a parliamentary democracy.

I'd have thought that the simple solution is to allow senior pro-Brexit chiefs to do the negotiating, then they should be the ones to put their case to the electorate on their own terms. i.e. when they want, at a point they themselves are happy with the deal. If they can convince everyone that this is the way forward, now that we know what we're voting for, I think that really would put this sorry mess to bed.

Completely agree. And it's incredible that everyone is going through such angst at the moment when there is a very simple solution. Namely, agree some sort of cap on net migration for the UK - which would enable an "emergency brake" to be applied. This would clearly need to be a better deal (for us) than the one Cameron negotiated a few months ago - but it might not need to be much better. This could then be put to the British people in the Autumn. The proposition would be some form of Associate Membership, very similar to the relationship that Norway has, with a slight tweak around the immigration cap. Logically all Remainers would vote for it, and quite a few Leavers - it should easily win out. OK - it would transgress the sacred Free Movement of People Principle - but not by much.

I suppose in reality we HAVE to go through all the angst so everyone can get their concerns heard and give their tuppence worth. Hopefully when it all dies down Merkel and (ideally) Theresa May can thrash it out over a few bratwursts.

 

[beorhthelm]

I wonder if you heard that Merkel said if we want new trade agreements with the EU it will be on the proviso that we allow free movement of people...

I wonder if you heard that most immigration is from outside of the EU and only 0.5% is within the EU

I wonder is once we will leave the EU France will stop their immigration checks at Calais

I wonder if there will be issues from people cross from EU ireland into non EU N ireland

Doubt much will change mate

i wonder if you know thats patent bollocks, its nearer half? i wonder is you understand the immigration checks at Calais are a bilateral agreement outside any EU institutions or control? i wonder if anyone learnt anything from the last 2 months debate, because we still seem to have the same ignorance on so many issues.

 

[ManOfSussex]

a permanent member of the UN security council.

We might want to crack on with Trident renewal to keep that. I once read the steel actually needs cutting this year. It's a shame our Parliamentarians are preoccupied discussing something else at present and that Scottish independence is being mentioned again with the base being in Scotland too.

 

[Seagull58]

I'm not really sure you have grasped the concept, tbh.

How on earth could 'each country control the numbers it allows' as it suits them at the time? This will by definition negatively affect other countries, whose nationals need to work in that country for whatever reason. Those other countries have all paid their 'membership fee' too, remember.

You could control it indirectly by making it economically more or less attractive for them such as access to healthcare, access to education, access to subsidised housing, access to social benefits, applicable income tax rate etc. You could also apply additional taxes to businesses according to the number of immigrants they employ.

 

[Simster]

Trouble with many people is that they are not living at the sharp end of Eastern European migration. The numbers have been relatively small down here, but when you get 8 people living in a small terraced house designed for four people living opposite you, like I had in Luton, it changes your complete perspective on things. .

I'm in full agreement on this part. We really need to be looking at ways of managing the immigration we have, and that means somehow wealthier areas taking a fair share of immigrants rather than posting pictures of posters on Facebook that scream "WE ARE NOT FULL" as if anybody who disagrees is an idiot, and that frankly belong in the VI form common room. This however, is not an easy one to solve.

There is really no benefit to our economy here. Chances are they where probably on low wages with topped up benefits. Our politicians don't see that part and nor do some on here.

This is where you are completely wrong, IMO. They provide plenty of benefits. They pay taxes, they often do jobs locals won't do, and most importantly, they are paying into our national pension pot and are highly unlikely to claim that back in 40 years time. Thank God, because that is a problem waiting to explode, and most immigrants are completely unaware they are even helping us in this way.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Trouble with many people is that they are not living at the sharp end of Eastern European migration. The numbers have been relatively small down here, but when you get 8 people living in a small terraced house designed for four people living opposite you, like I had in Luton, it changes your complete perspective on things. There is really no benefit to our economy here. Chances are they where probably on low wages with topped up benefits. Our politicians don't see that part and nor do some on here.

I used to live in St. Leonard's, a 5 minute walk from Warrior Square station. I still live close to Hastings. There's large numbers of Eastern Europeans in this area. Personally I had no problem with Eastern European migration.

 

[Hamilton]

I'm not sufficiently informed to give a detailed view on continuing to build growth or redistributing wealth but I will say that mutually beneficial trade agreements with the nations and regions with which we want to trade are a key element. Free movement of labour is not a pre-requisite, although it is currently the stated position of the EU for free access to their market. Regarding remaining a player on the world stage; we are the fifth largest economy in the world, in NATO, in the G7, in the G20 and a permanent member of the UN security council.

But you were sufficiently informed to decide on how to vote in the referendum, so you must have some sort of idea.


Sent from my iPhone in a non-Calde world :-(

 

[biddles911]

Trouble with many people is that they are not living at the sharp end of Eastern European migration. The numbers have been relatively small down here, but when you get 8 people living in a small terraced house designed for four people living opposite you, like I had in Luton, it changes your complete perspective on things. There is really no benefit to our economy here. Chances are they where probably on low wages with topped up benefits. Our politicians don't see that part and nor do some on here.

Like that never happens with British people!?

You clearly don't know the facts even about people living right opposite you.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Seagull58]

I guess the issue is quite practical. Access to a wider pool of skills and talent is good for business. If you live in say Lille and work in Ghent then you don't want to be cracking your passport out every day to get to work.

This isn't the only reason, but it's certainly an understandable one. After all, we wouldn't put in border controls between Wales, England and Scotland would we?


Sent from my iPhone in a non-Calde world :-(

Access to a wider pool of skills and talent is generally good for business but access to a group of Romas who will wash your car in the supermarket carpark during the day and break into your house at night is not quite as attractive.

 

[c0lz]

Completely agree. And it's incredible that everyone is going through such angst at the moment when there is a very simple solution. Namely, agree some sort of cap on net migration for the UK - which would enable an "emergency brake" to be applied. This would clearly need to be a better deal (for us) than the one Cameron negotiated a few months ago - but it might not need to be much better. This could then be put to the British people in the Autumn. The proposition would be some form of Associate Membership, very similar to the relationship that Norway has, with a slight tweak around the immigration cap. Logically all Remainers would vote for it, and quite a few Leavers - it should easily win out. OK - it would transgress the sacred Free Movement of People Principle - but not by much.

I suppose in reality we HAVE to go through all the angst so everyone can get their concerns heard and give their tuppence worth. Hopefully when it all dies down Merkel and (ideally) Theresa May can thrash it out over a few bratwursts.

There will not be second Referendum get over it .

 

[studio150]

Trouble with many people is that they are not living at the sharp end of Eastern European migration. The numbers have been relatively small down here, but when you get 8 people living in a small terraced house designed for four people living opposite you, like I had in Luton, it changes your complete perspective on things. There is really no benefit to our economy here. Chances are they where probably on low wages with topped up benefits. Our politicians don't see that part and nor do some on here.

i assume that these 8 people where from the EU?

Other than the fact that you believe their home was overcowded what direct problems did they cause you.

 

[Seagull58]

But you were sufficiently informed to decide on how to vote in the referendum, so you must have some sort of idea.


Sent from my iPhone in a non-Calde world :-(

No, I didn't vote in the referendum. Since I live, work and pay taxes outside of the UK and the EU I chose not to vote.

 

[Albumen]

In hindsight, not actually having any plans at all post-Brexit, was the Leave campaign's tactical masterstroke. Remainers kept repeating that there was no plan - that nobody had explained what Brexit actually MEANT, rationally supposing that this ought to be viewed as a bad thing.

In reality it transpired that 17 million people chose to vote for whatever they each WANTED it to mean.

And what a f_ckin mess we are now because of it. Lets just hope the government do the right thing and what they're best at - never actually decide on it, stay in the EU and squirm out some excuse to those who wanted this mess.

 

[SK1NT]

i wonder if you know thats patent bollocks, its nearer half? i wonder is you understand the immigration checks at Calais are a bilateral agreement outside any EU institutions or control? i wonder if anyone learnt anything from the last 2 months debate, because we still seem to have the same ignorance on so many issues.

Funny because you have typed some words none of which have any meaning...

1) It is not nearer half the majority of immigration IS outside of the EU

2) Yea it an agreement between France and us but do think that there maybe a chance France will stop these checks as they were setup as part of us being in the EU. France can end it any time.

"French economy minister Emmanuel Macron told the Financial Times the country could end the so-called Le Touquet agreement - which lets UK border guards check passports on the French side of the border - if Britain left the EU."

3) Didn't see you address the N Ireland boarder

4) Take your head out of Farage's arse and learn the facts. Everything you stated was bollocks

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I used to live in St. Leonard's, a 5 minute walk from Warrior Square station. I still live close to Hastings. There's large numbers of Eastern Europeans in this area. Personally I had no problem with Eastern European migration.

Where they living opposite you thou, sitting outside drinking to all hours, that's my question?
And the other time an Eastern European women knocked on my door at 7am in the morning, crying her eyes out, stinking of sick, saying she was lost and wanted to go home

I'm afraid we see nothing down here in reality. I don't make this up.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

i wonder if you know thats patent bollocks, its nearer half? i wonder is you understand the immigration checks at Calais are a bilateral agreement outside any EU institutions or control? i wonder if anyone learnt anything from the last 2 months debate, because we still seem to have the same ignorance on so many issues.

He didn't say that the border at Calais is subject to EU institutions or control and I read the 0.5% as a typo tbh.

 

[Hamilton]

Access to a wider pool of skills and talent is generally good for business but access to a group of Romas who will wash your car in the supermarket carpark during the day and break into your house at night is not quite as attractive.

Delighted to capture this post for the record. So, for you it is about the race and nationality of those people coming to work here?

I'm sure you'll want to correct that.

It's odd. I'm on my way back from Europe now. Just conducted a business meeting with a whole host of nationalities, all in English.

We bang on about the EU creating regulations, and meanwhile, we've made a whole continent adopt our language. I had to smile at the thought.


Sent from my iPhone in a non-Calde world :-(

 

[Seagull58]

We might want to crack on with Trident renewal to keep that. I once read the steel actually needs cutting this year. It's a shame our Parliamentarians are preoccupied discussing something else at present and that Scottish independence is being mentioned again with the base being in Scotland too.

We are a PERMANENT member. We don't have to do or not do anything to keep it.

 

[beorhthelm]

Quite so, it's all in the EU Treaties so it's law. And, like Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein, we would have to implement any legislation relevant to the single market nationally.

and presumably not have to implement legislation not relevant to the single market.

sadly, as much as the Remainers never really told us what the benefit of the EU are, the Leavers never really told us what we were trying to reclaim. immigration is a nasty topic to argue over and was definately not what leaving the EU was about originally (wasnt even an issue before the expansion to some of the Eastern European nations).