[Politics] Brexit

[Westdene Seagull]

I always had you down as a big supporter of animal welfare and food standards. Maybe I was mistaken

Yawn ..... misreading as normal. So the chicken issue from the US isn't one of welfare while the animals are still alive - more of one of how the meat is dealt with after killing. Would I eat chicken from the States ? No. That's because I don't think washing a chicken in chlorine sounds very nice to eat. I don't actually have an issue with people having a choice to eat it just as long as they know what they are eating. Strangely there's no reports of Americans dying of eating chicken washed in chlorine though.

So on to animal abuse - let's remember that you are supporting membership of an organisation that SUPPORTS live exports, and SUPPORTS the abuse of cows producing Parmesan cheese, SUPPORTS the stuffing of food down the neck of a Goose. You have a lovely bedfellow there !

 

[ManOfSussex]

Of course they didn't exist in that form - as people on this thread keeping reminding us, the choice was Remain or Leave. And it was obvious to me that (once all parties ruled out a hard border) this would very likely lead to closer links between the ROI and NI. This isn't hindsight, I said something very similar to this on this or on the original thread, around the time of the referendum.

As I said Sinn Fein backed remain and wanting a united Ireland or not, I fail to see why anyone thinks a border in the Irish Sea is a positive though.

It's a lose, lose for all concerned. I'm pleased I wont be working in the docks in Heysham or Belfast when it's implemented either.

 

[WATFORD zero]

That was my preferred option for the UK, yes. But it was clear that if we didn't stay in the CU, that there would be a de facto CU between NI and the ROI

Absolutely. The same posters who at the time shouted 'Project Fear' every time Borders in the Irish Sea, Food and Welfare Standards, Trying to get a fair trade deal from economies that dwarfed ours, Customs infrastructure, etc etc apparently have no other answers now they can't shout 'project fear'.

And of course we are not going 'no deal', we just have to leave it on the table to get a good deal. Remember that one ?

I have done and said what I can, but I'm afraid it's now just look after myself and my family and try and make sure the shitstorm coming has as little effect on them as possible.

Sadly, Toute nation a le gouvernement qu'elle mérite

 

[WATFORD zero]

Yawn ..... misreading as normal. So the chicken issue from the US isn't one of welfare while the animals are still alive - more of one of how the meat is dealt with after killing. Would I eat chicken from the States ? No. That's because I don't think washing a chicken in chlorine sounds very nice to eat. I don't actually have an issue with people having a choice to eat it just as long as they know what they are eating. Strangely there's no reports of Americans dying of eating chicken washed in chlorine though.

So on to animal abuse - let's remember that you are supporting membership of an organisation that SUPPORTS live exports, and SUPPORTS the abuse of cows producing Parmesan cheese, SUPPORTS the stuffing of food down the neck of a Goose. You have a lovely bedfellow there !

Yes, because that is all this is about, bleaching chickens.

I'll explain this one small aspect, very simply. The reason the chickens have to be bleached is because the extremely poor welfare conditions under which they are kept means that they are unsafe to be consumed until they've been bleached, so it's very much one of welfare while they are still alive

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Yawn ..... misreading as normal. So the chicken issue from the US isn't one of welfare while the animals are still alive - more of one of how the meat is dealt with after killing. Would I eat chicken from the States ? No. That's because I don't think washing a chicken in chlorine sounds very nice to eat. I don't actually have an issue with people having a choice to eat it just as long as they know what they are eating. Strangely there's no reports of Americans dying of eating chicken washed in chlorine though.

So on to animal abuse - let's remember that you are supporting membership of an organisation that SUPPORTS live exports, and SUPPORTS the abuse of cows producing Parmesan cheese, SUPPORTS the stuffing of food down the neck of a Goose. You have a lovely bedfellow there !

https://www.viva.org.uk/resources/c...as cannot be sold,, Norway, Poland and Israel.

Foie-gras production has been unilaterally banned in several countries, including most of the Austrian provinces, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, Norway, Poland and Israel. General animal protection laws in Ireland, Sweden, Switzerland, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom mean that production is essentially banned there also. In 2012, 8 MEPs called for foie-gras to banned across Europe.

WTO (World Trade Organisation) rules are often quoted as the reason why a ban on the importation of foie-gras into the UK would not be possible.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Yes, because that is all this is about, bleaching chickens.

I'll explain this one small aspect, very simply. The reason the chickens have to be bleached is because the extremely poor welfare conditions under which they are kept means that they are unsafe to be consumed until they've been bleached, so it's very much one of welfare while they are still alive

Good grief .... so I'll explain in simple terms just for you .... a lot of chickens are treated in the same way while alive in the UK - or indeed in the EU - it's just the cleaning process that's different. Now if you want to support unethical chicken farming in the UK then carry on buying your chicken from a supermarket. Feel free to continue to buy your Parmesan as well - which I'd guess you do ? Go on - admit it - you buy Parmesan ?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

https://www.viva.org.uk/resources/c...as cannot be sold,, Norway, Poland and Israel.

Foie-gras production has been unilaterally banned in several countries, including most of the Austrian provinces, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, Norway, Poland and Israel. General animal protection laws in Ireland, Sweden, Switzerland, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom mean that production is essentially banned there also. In 2012, 8 MEPs called for foie-gras to banned across Europe.

WTO (World Trade Organisation) rules are often quoted as the reason why a ban on the importation of foie-gras into the UK would not be possible.

Being the key word - the EU have always refused to do so thanks to French opposition. Good old EU eh ? Always into animal welfare .... not.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Being the key word - the EU have always refused to do so thanks to French opposition. Good old EU eh ? Always into animal welfare .... not.

The article states the WTO rules cannot ban it either.

I don't agree with it and would refuse it if ever offered,

 

[WATFORD zero]

Good grief .... so I'll explain in simple terms just for you .... a lot of chickens are treated in the same way while alive in the UK - or indeed in the EU - it's just the cleaning process that's different. Now if you want to support unethical chicken farming in the UK then carry on buying your chicken from a supermarket. Feel free to continue to buy your Parmesan as well - which I'd guess you do ? Go on - admit it - you buy Parmesan ?

If this were true, that chickens in the UK are treated the same, then we would also have to chlorine wash them to make them safe for human consumption, just like they do in the US

There's no need to keep putting yourself through this, you're a winner

(And you won't need to wait for much longer for Johnson to tell you what you've won )

You may want to read this before you post again https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/full-list-of-mps-who-voted-to-lower-our-food-standards-during-the-covid-pandemic/

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Being the key word - the EU have always refused to do so thanks to French opposition. Good old EU eh ? Always into animal welfare .... not.

I'm not sure your rather sweeping statement is in alignment with the views of the RSPCA who might (possibly) know a little bit more about this issue than a bloke who lives in Brighton and keeps a few chickens albeit one who might well have genuine concerns on this issue.

Not only do the majority of our animal welfare laws come from the EU, but even if the EU laws were not up to our own standards there are two other factors to consider

a) the EU regs must have led to a net increase in welfare across Europe (a kind of 'levelling up', which your friend Boris might approve of);

b) there must be a risk that as we switch food trade away from intra-EU trade, we might well come across trading partners who not only fall short of our 'own' lofty standards but will fall short of the EU's - the USA chicken controversy is just one of these possibilities.

In short there might well be all sorts of great reasons for leaving the EU (yet to be provided in any coherent, fully evidenced or convincing way by just about anyone on your side of the fence) but animal welfare is very unlikely to be one of them. And the EU's record on this (across the piece), almost certainly contradicts your sign-off sneer.

https://www.rspca.org.uk/whatwedo/endcruelty/changingthelaw/brexit

 

[WATFORD zero]

So with Food and Animal welfare standards now gone in addition to confirmation of the Border in the Irish Sea, does any leaver have any principle that they aren't prepared to lay down at Johnson's 'Brexit at any cost' altar ?

 

[nicko31]

So with Food and Animal welfare standards now gone in addition to confirmation of the Border in the Irish Sea, does any leaver have any principle that they aren't prepared to lay down at Johnson's 'Brexit at any cost' altar ?

Most have disappeared from this board, some have formed new accounts, a handful are still telling us the earth was flat in June 2016 and is still flat to this day

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

You've got to chuckle at this thread now it's always been contentious, but we've got the usual suspects fallen fowl of chlorinated chicken , marvelous scenes
Regards
DF

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Yes, because that is all this is about, bleaching chickens.

I'll explain this one small aspect, very simply. The reason the chickens have to be bleached is because the extremely poor welfare conditions under which they are kept means that they are unsafe to be consumed until they've been bleached, so it's very much one of welfare while they are still alive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwafG-QvEFc

regards
DF

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Most have disappeared from this board, some have formed new accounts, a handful are still telling us the earth was flat in June 2016 and is still flat to this day

and you're still clinging on like shit to a blanket
regards
DF

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Latest round of Brexit talks have ended. Barnier gave a press conference. Virtually no progress on any substantive issues. He itemised the areas (4 concrete examples) in which the government are 'back-tracking' (his term) on the Political Declaration. We appear to be shuffling toward the no deal outcome. My take on this is that

a) there might still be the lingering thought on the UK side that the EU will concede at the last minute

b) Johnson knows they won't but he's boxed himself in a corner with promises to his base on so many issues (eg fisheries) that he simply can't be seen to be conceding any ground: talks collapse; no deal

c) as above, but as a liar he will reluctantly concede at a late stage and try to bluff his way out of it - reluctant deal

d) the least likely: he'll enter into the negotiations (which he signed up to) with 'best intent' and look for complex, pragmatic, negotiated outcomes in the spirit of the Political Declaration, and be honest with the pubic that with such outcomes you have to give something to receive something in return - genuine deal

PS what ever happened to the illusion of 'frictionless trade'?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Latest round of Brexit talks have ended. Barnier gave a press conference. Virtually no progress on any substantive issues. He itemised the areas (4 concrete examples) in which the government are 'back-tracking' (his term) on the Political Declaration. We appear to be shuffling toward the no deal outcome. My take on this is that

a) there might still be the lingering thought on the UK side that the EU will concede at the last minute

b) Johnson knows they won't but he's boxed himself in a corner with promises to his base on so many issues (eg fisheries) that he simply can't be seen to be conceding any ground: talks collapse; no deal

c) as above, but as a liar he will reluctantly concede at a late stage and try to bluff his way out of it - reluctant deal

d) the least likely: he'll enter into the negotiations (which he signed up to) with 'best intent' and look for complex, pragmatic, negotiated outcomes in the spirit of the Political Declaration, and be honest with the pubic that with such outcomes you have to give something to receive something in return - genuine deal

PS what ever happened to the illusion of 'frictionless trade'?

Who gives a toss about Barnier , who's picking up the tab for our loss of money to the EU ,I wonder if he's sorted that one out yet !
Regards
DF

 

[nicko31]

Latest round of Brexit talks have ended. Barnier gave a press conference. Virtually no progress on any substantive issues. He itemised the areas (4 concrete examples) in which the government are 'back-tracking' (his term) on the Political Declaration. We appear to be shuffling toward the no deal outcome. My take on this is that

a) there might still be the lingering thought on the UK side that the EU will concede at the last minute

b) Johnson knows they won't but he's boxed himself in a corner with promises to his base on so many issues (eg fisheries) that he simply can't be seen to be conceding any ground: talks collapse; no deal

c) as above, but as a liar he will reluctantly concede at a late stage and try to bluff his way out of it - reluctant deal

d) the least likely: he'll enter into the negotiations (which he signed up to) with 'best intent' and look for complex, pragmatic, negotiated outcomes in the spirit of the Political Declaration, and be honest with the pubic that with such outcomes you have to give something to receive something in return - genuine deal

PS what ever happened to the illusion of 'frictionless trade'?

No, no, no....but the German car industry will come running.

Honestly, others will be looking at our performance and backsliding and will be treading very carefully. And in every trade deal there's only one party in a hurry and that's us...

 

[daveinplzen]

Its the expected shambles.

 

[portslade seagull]

I saw a programme on TV years back that showed lots of the ( legal!) tricks and dodgy processes used in food production. There was a huge trough full of Chicken breasts soaking in a water based solution for the simple reason that the meat absorbs the water and weighs more thanks to the water.

So, when an industrial scale producer is selling Chicken breasts at say £8 a kilo,if they can get them to absorb 10% of their weight in water that's a lot of cash.

A lot of our food processes are already dodgy, I dread to think what will happen under Johnson's government of chancers and yes men.

Normally it's when you cook them, they shrivel to nothing before your very eyes