[Politics] Brexit

[wellquickwoody]

The company says those in managerial jobs who want to remain working at Morrisons can stay. However, their new offer will be at the shop floor level. Front-line store staff at Morrisons earn £9 an hour.

So where does it mention zero hour contracts?

 

[Lever]

I think that you are really optimistic if you think any Brexit supporting poster on here is going to engage in the issues. Of the few that are capable of engagement, the best you will get is the standard avoidance of 'nobody knows'.

This despite the fact that the vast majority of economists, trade negotiators, industry experts and NI businesses all think they have a pretty good idea.

The one thing that is apparent is that anyone with any sense whatsoever will start to find out what is 'known' over the next 11 months.

Haha!
A Brexit sceptic being described as 'really optimistic'.
It's true, I am.....

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The company says those in managerial jobs who want to remain working at Morrisons can stay. However, their new offer will be at the shop floor level. Front-line store staff at Morrisons earn £9 an hour.

So no mention of zero hours at all then ?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Just making stuff up as usual. Obviously slim pickings on the regular morning trawl for negative news stories.

If they were not specifically zero hours contracts then it was a mistake to suggest they were. The poster's underlying point remains though - 3000 middle management jobs are being replaced with 7000 poorly paid shop floor ones and the employer (and the government, and its disciples) can claim a net increase of 4,000 jobs as evidence of how spiffingly Brexit Britain is doing. The Brexiteers can then add it to their file of rather thin 'good news' stories. Impresses some I suppose.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Not zero hours but hourly paid isn't exactly a giant leap is it.

 

[Lever]

I think that you are really optimistic if you think any Brexit supporting poster on here is going to engage in any of the issues. Of the few that are capable of engagement, the best you will get is the standard avoidance of 'nobody knows'.

Try starting a discussion on How the border in the Irish sea will work, the issues with trying to negotiate major trade deals in parallel despite their inter-dependencies, the timescales chosen to replace the 40 trade deals the EU have in place on top of the one with the EU. I wonder who would engage in any of those subjects ?

This despite the fact that the vast majority of economists, trade negotiators, industry experts and NI businesses all think they have a pretty good idea.

The one thing that is obvious is that anyone with any cognitive ability whatsoever will start to find out what is 'known' over the next 11 months if Johnson is telling the truth. (Unless, of course, all the people who voted Johnson into power have been naive, lied to and completely stitched up, but that couldn't have happened as everyone knew what they were voting for, didn't they ).

I agree with your strong response and have yet to see any Brexiter engage with these major issues. Following the election disaster and our imminent departure from the EU, I really think focusing on these questions is the way forward. It might generate some self reflection!

 

[Lincoln Imp]

So no mention of zero hours at all then ?

The last time I looked, Morrisons were offering part time jobs on an 8 hours a week contract. So not quite zero hours. More like nearly zero hours.



PS I am not against zero hours contracts in principle. I have effectively been on them for years, just like every other self-employed person. They can work to everyone's advantage although many don't. They exploit people with their backs to the wall. But the rights and wrongs of tiny tiny contracts was't the point the poster was making.

 

[CHAPPERS]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...post-brexit-checks-for-northern-irish-traders

The “straightforward” document that Northern Irish businesses will need to complete to send goods to Great Britain after Brexit is a complex form that includes 31 data elements, it can be revealed.

The Freight Transport Association has raised concerns that hauliers could be fined if they get elements of the “exit summary declaration” wrong, and is calling on the EU and the UK to remove it during their negotiations.

The FTA’s head of European policy, Pauline Bastidon, said: “There are up to 31 data elements in an exit summary declaration required to take goods out of the EU now and post-Brexit (ie out of Northern Ireland) when the mode is road freight. Only two of these are optional, meaning 29 data elements are mandatory.

Stephen Barclay came under fire late last year when, as Brexit secretary, he revealed the forms would be required even though it is a domestic trade route.

The news infuriated the Democratic Unionist party, which had been promised there would be no border down the Irish Sea, and was swiftly downplayed by Barclay, who told the DUP MP Nigel Dodds days later that it was a “fairly straightforward” form.

Days later Boris Johnson was accused of misleading the public when he told business leaders on a visit to Northern Ireland that they could throw the form in the bin.

The exit and entry forms are mandatory and are the two parts of what is known as a safety and security certificate. It is required as part of a counter-terrorism regime devised to protect the US after the 9/11 attacks but is not applicable within the European Union. After Brexit, it will apply in Northern Ireland and on trade moving from Great Britain to the rest of the EU.

Businesses sending goods from Great Britain to Northern Ireland will not be immune either. They face a form involving up to 45 elements. “Only three of these are optional, meaning that 42 data fields are mandatory,” Bastidon said.

The legal basis of the forms is contained in a complex 557-page document which is almost incomprehensible to an untrained eye.

Transport chiefs and manufacturers must match codes in the document with a complex list of coded data every time goods are booked on to a ferry.

Seamus Lehany, the head of the FTA in Belfast, said: “It’s the haulier who must complete the paperwork. The concern is if a mistake is made and a load refused onboard a ferry, it could then miss its sailing which would have a big impact on ‘just in time’ loads, especially for the retail trade.”

Seamus Kelly, the chief executive of Manufacturing Northern Ireland, said the checks breached the commitments made in Irish border clauses 49 and 50 in the UK and EU joint report 2017, and that “the EU were as much to blame” as the prime minister.Senior staff at Dover Port said they were also worried. They have previously said the requirement for counter-terror security declarations posed the biggest threat to frictionless trade with the EU.

“The security certificate is our biggest worry,” one source said.

The EU’s Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, is to visit Belfast on Monday.

His adviser Stefaan de Rynck said the EU would “not tolerate any backsliding or half measures” on the Northern Ireland protocol, and that the UK could face sanctions if it did not implement all three sets of checks: “safety and security”, customs and regulatory checks.

“There are clear commitments on the UK which are legally binding and have to be implemented,” he told an audience in London on Wednesday.

No government department has supplied details on the declarations since Barclay mentioned them in October despite businesses calling for more information.

Instead, Johnson has been saying there will be no checks, and this week in parliament he told the DUP MP Jeffrey Donaldson there would “emphatically” be no checks in either direction on goods.

Business leaders from 12 sectoral organisations have called for the EU to waive the safety and security certificate and to minimise the customs and regulatory checks.

Bastidon said: “The safety and security certificates can be done away with if both sides agree.”

De Rynck pointed out that security certificates were not required on goods between Switzerland and the EU but that was because there was alignment on EU rules, something the chancellor, Sajid Javid, has ruled out.

Cool.

 

[sparkie]

Not zero hours but hourly paid isn't exactly a giant leap is it.

How many of these taxed £9 hours do they have to work to get more than their redundancy payment ?

I suspect that will be the calculation the workers make.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Not zero hours but hourly paid isn't exactly a giant leap is it.

Exactly. It is going from a store manager, to a front line shop worker and hourly paid.
Asda did similar a few months ago.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/asda-staff-who-refused-sign-20603584

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The last time I looked, Morrisons were offering part time jobs on an 8 hours a week contract. So not quite zero hours. More like nearly zero hours.



PS I am not against zero hours contracts in principle. I have effectively been on them for years, just like every other self-employed person. They can work to everyone's advantage although many don't. They exploit people with their backs to the wall. But the rights and wrongs of tiny tiny contracts was't the point the poster was making.

I'm not sure I'd call an 8 hour contract zero hours but I get where you're coming from.

It just annoys me that people automatically equate zero hours to something bad. I worked hotels and bars in my student years - earned what felt like a lot of money - and those zero hours jobs worked brilliantly for me ( although the phrase hadn't really been invented then ). Indeed, my step daughter has just started a zero hours job at The Witchez restaurant in Brighton and it suits her down to the ground.

I wonder if all those on here so against zero hour contracts buy food and drink at the Amex ? If they do then they are supporting zero hour contracts as about 90% of the serving staff are on them ( as are the most the stewards ).

 

[JC Footy Genius]

If they were not specifically zero hours contracts then it was a mistake to suggest they were. The poster's underlying point remains though - 3000 middle management jobs are being replaced with 7000 poorly paid shop floor ones and the employer (and the government, and its disciples) can claim a net increase of 4,000 jobs as evidence of how spiffingly Brexit Britain is doing. The Brexiteers can then add it to their file of rather thin 'good news' stories. Impresses some I suppose.

Hand me that shovel. The only person on here trying to use this story to try and fit an existing bias was TB. I already pointed out their previous claim about rising employment being based on short term contracts was bollox (see #108592). It is obviously very disappointing and annoying that the Uk has record levels of employment for people desperate for the UK to fail just so they can say I told you so.

 

[Lever]

Hand me that shovel. The only person on here trying to use this story to try and fit an existing bias was TB. I already pointed out their previous claim about rising employment being based on short term contracts was bollox (see #108592). It is obviously very disappointing and annoying that the Uk has record levels of employment for people desperate for the UK to fail just so they can say I told you so.

Please will you define what you mean by 'reasonable' Remain voters 'came to terms' with the Referendum result? I think you have used the phrase before, but it's a bit vague.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Nissan’s Sunderland plant to build 2000 all-electric Leafs for Uber
https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/nissans-sunderland-plant-to-build-2000-all-electric-leafs-for-uber/

Korea’s Hyundai and Kia to invest £85.4 million in British electric vehicle manufacturer Arrival.
https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/koreas-...ritish-electric-vehicle-manufacturer-arrival/

Vauxhall’s Luton plant begins building Peugeot and Citroen’s medium vans
https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/vauxhalls-luton-plant-begins-building-peugeot-and-citroens-medium-vans/

 

[nicko31]

Well, well the Murdoch press are report Boris will get a trade deal with Japan before end of 2020, dubbed EU++

Just one slight issue, The EU-Japan FTA (the world's largest) has a provision that forbids Japan to strike better trade deals with third countries.

More fantasy, we better get used to it I guess

 

[A1X]

I assume there was a distinct lack of technical details of how this new FTA was better than the EU one?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Nissan’s Sunderland plant to build 2000 all-electric Leafs for Uber
https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/nissans-sunderland-plant-to-build-2000-all-electric-leafs-for-uber/

Well done to the Mayor of London.

 

[nicko31]

I think that you are really optimistic if you think any Brexit supporting poster on here is going to engage in any of the issues. Of the few that are capable of engagement, the best you will get is the standard avoidance of 'nobody knows'.

Try starting a discussion on How the border in the Irish sea will work, the issues with trying to negotiate major trade deals in parallel despite their inter-dependencies, the timescales chosen to replace the 40 trade deals the EU have in place on top of the one with the EU. I wonder who would engage in any of those subjects.

They're big on feelings, beliefs and memes but faced with questions there is only silence.

 

[SollysLeftFoot]

PMI data's barely impacted GBP crosses, banks still pricing in a BoE rate cut next week.

Personally, can't see it happening. Economy proving to remain buoyant despite Brexit. Will be really interesting to see the next budget and how much the government intends to spend (and ultimately borrow to fund said spending).

I still don't think the bounce back is as much as a sign of confidence in the economy but more the private sector sighing relief Corbyn's gone. We shall see though.

Nissan’s Sunderland plant to build 2000 all-electric Leafs for Uber
https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/nissans-sunderland-plant-to-build-2000-all-electric-leafs-for-uber/

Korea’s Hyundai and Kia to invest £85.4 million in British electric vehicle manufacturer Arrival.
https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/koreas-...ritish-electric-vehicle-manufacturer-arrival/

Vauxhall’s Luton plant begins building Peugeot and Citroen’s medium vans
https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/vauxhalls-luton-plant-begins-building-peugeot-and-citroens-medium-vans/

All of above is definitely good news though, if Britain can position itself as a world leader in renewable technology, we'll remain truly buoyant after Brexit's actually happened. From my perspective, as I'm quite keen on pushing a greener Britain, I'm really pleased to see a lot of investment into electric cars and especially pleased for these regions because it means their skills will not go to waste. Cannot allow another situation similar to the mines being closed and no reinvestment in skills and training.

Certainly glad to see Liz Truss coming out and stating the US won't dictate UK tax policy on tech corps!

 

[WATFORD zero]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...post-brexit-checks-for-northern-irish-traders

The “straightforward” document that Northern Irish businesses will need to complete to send goods to Great Britain after Brexit is a complex form that includes 31 data elements, it can be revealed.

The Freight Transport Association has raised concerns that hauliers could be fined if they get elements of the “exit summary declaration” wrong, and is calling on the EU and the UK to remove it during their negotiations.

The FTA’s head of European policy, Pauline Bastidon, said: “There are up to 31 data elements in an exit summary declaration required to take goods out of the EU now and post-Brexit (ie out of Northern Ireland) when the mode is road freight. Only two of these are optional, meaning 29 data elements are mandatory.

Stephen Barclay came under fire late last year when, as Brexit secretary, he revealed the forms would be required even though it is a domestic trade route.

The news infuriated the Democratic Unionist party, which had been promised there would be no border down the Irish Sea, and was swiftly downplayed by Barclay, who told the DUP MP Nigel Dodds days later that it was a “fairly straightforward” form.

Days later Boris Johnson was accused of misleading the public when he told business leaders on a visit to Northern Ireland that they could throw the form in the bin.

The exit and entry forms are mandatory and are the two parts of what is known as a safety and security certificate. It is required as part of a counter-terrorism regime devised to protect the US after the 9/11 attacks but is not applicable within the European Union. After Brexit, it will apply in Northern Ireland and on trade moving from Great Britain to the rest of the EU.

Businesses sending goods from Great Britain to Northern Ireland will not be immune either. They face a form involving up to 45 elements. “Only three of these are optional, meaning that 42 data fields are mandatory,” Bastidon said.

The legal basis of the forms is contained in a complex 557-page document which is almost incomprehensible to an untrained eye.

Transport chiefs and manufacturers must match codes in the document with a complex list of coded data every time goods are booked on to a ferry.

Seamus Lehany, the head of the FTA in Belfast, said: “It’s the haulier who must complete the paperwork. The concern is if a mistake is made and a load refused onboard a ferry, it could then miss its sailing which would have a big impact on ‘just in time’ loads, especially for the retail trade.”

Seamus Kelly, the chief executive of Manufacturing Northern Ireland, said the checks breached the commitments made in Irish border clauses 49 and 50 in the UK and EU joint report 2017, and that “the EU were as much to blame” as the prime minister.Senior staff at Dover Port said they were also worried. They have previously said the requirement for counter-terror security declarations posed the biggest threat to frictionless trade with the EU.

“The security certificate is our biggest worry,” one source said.

The EU’s Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, is to visit Belfast on Monday.

His adviser Stefaan de Rynck said the EU would “not tolerate any backsliding or half measures” on the Northern Ireland protocol, and that the UK could face sanctions if it did not implement all three sets of checks: “safety and security”, customs and regulatory checks.

“There are clear commitments on the UK which are legally binding and have to be implemented,” he told an audience in London on Wednesday.

No government department has supplied details on the declarations since Barclay mentioned them in October despite businesses calling for more information.

Instead, Johnson has been saying there will be no checks, and this week in parliament he told the DUP MP Jeffrey Donaldson there would “emphatically” be no checks in either direction on goods.

Business leaders from 12 sectoral organisations have called for the EU to waive the safety and security certificate and to minimise the customs and regulatory checks.

Bastidon said: “The safety and security certificates can be done away with if both sides agree.”

De Rynck pointed out that security certificates were not required on goods between Switzerland and the EU but that was because there was alignment on EU rules, something the chancellor, Sajid Javid, has ruled out.

Cool.

Sadly, it appears that to all the Brexit supporters on NSC, the fact that TB said 'Zero hours' when referring to Morrisons redundancies rather that 'Minimal hours' demands far more attention than this.

The fact that these onerous procedures for all goods moving between NI and the rest of Britain as a result of Johnson's newly introduced Irish Sea Border will have a hugely negative impact on businesses on both sides of the Irish Sea apparently isn't as important and doesn't warrant any attempt at justification of this wonderful Brexit 'Opportunity'.

Now I wonder why that may be