[Politics] Brexit

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

What I see now from Brexiteers, is a realisation of the magnitude of the **** up they have created, with a plea now of 'oh well, its done now, we have to all get behind it'. Along with astonishment that people are not happy with that

I think many are still in denial. The **** up chickens have yet to come home to roost!

 

[JC Footy Genius]

.. and on and on ..

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Thank you for a measured reply. Can I pick you up on the point above. I don't ask you to agree with me, but I do ask to consider whether I make a case and perhaps in the light of that to trim your invective.

One of the few general requirements formally placed on MPs - their covenant with the public if you like - is to always act in what he or she feels is the national interest. Consider that alongside Edmund Burke's words to the electors of Bristol 250 years ago:

To deliver an opinion, is the right of all men; that of constituents is a weighty and respectable opinion, which a representative ought always to rejoice to hear; and which he ought always most seriously to consider. But authoritative instructions; mandates issued, which the member is bound blindly and implicitly to obey, to vote, and to argue for, though contrary to the clearest conviction of his judgment and conscience,--these are things utterly unknown to the laws of this land, and which arise from a fundamental mistake of the whole order and tenor of our constitution.

Parliament is not a congress of ambassadors from different and hostile interests; which interests each must maintain, as an agent and advocate, against other agents and advocates; but parliament is a deliberative assembly of one nation, with one interest, that of the whole; where, not local purposes, not local prejudices, ought to guide, but the general good, resulting from the general reason of the whole.

Until recently, the issue of what MPs do what felt was 'in the general good' rarely arose. The common criticism of them was the exact opposite: that they were mere robots, trudging through the lobbies in search of an easy life, career development, personal gain, party approval.

23 June 2016 changed that. Because of Cameron's decision - made for party political reasons - to ask the public whether they wanted something without specifically defining what it was, MPs found themselves faced with a brief so absurdly loose that there were even questions (from some) about whether it was even intended. Suddenly, MPs were faced with the task of deciding what was good for the people, not for their careers. I would argue that they rose to this challenge. As the lady from - I think - De Welt said in a Radio 4 interview, the antics in the House in 2019 were seen across Germany as a magnificent example to the world of parliamentary democracy.

Some anti-Brexit MPs voted for whatever deal was placed in front of them, it's nice to think because they felt the disturbances that would result from Brexit being stopped would be even less in the national interest than going ahead with it. (A principled stance, although I'm cynical enough to think that many of the turners were like Sajid Javid, trimming and head-standing in order to keep the Jaguar parked outside his house.) Others argued that once a specifically-defined agreement was reached it should be put back to the public. Others (ERG mainly) said that the deal was too weak. Others said it was too strong. The LibDems were to say that the public should be asked to support them in the view that Brexit should be axed (that went well).

The point is, discussion raged. Many of those involved - the Anna Soubrys and Chuka Umannas - battled for what they thought was right in the certain knowledge that doing so would destroy their careers. No feather-bedding here. Off-stage, when the pro-Brexit government lied and cheated and cut corners to get its way, people put their hands in their pockets to get the law of the land applied. It's hard to marshall disagreement with that either.

Eventually the government, faced with a logjam of honestly-held opposite opinions, asked MPs to allow it to ask the public to vote for a set of representatives s more amenable to its view. The MPs agreed and the people, in part because they were exhausted by the whole thing and appalled by the alternative, gave the government what it wanted.

We now return, after three years of fierce argument and controversy, to normal service. MPs will do as they are told. Careers will proceed, legislation will drift through, the House will slumber. This to me is the real abuse of power.

The Tory boys (and girls) in particular seem to see their most important function is to cheer BJ as loudly as possible at every PMQ session. They know they owe their political career to him and they were only selected or retained as candidates on the basis of fully signing up to his Brexit position. The Fuhrer Oath springs to mind. These will not only be lobby-fodder; they will be willing lobby-fodder.

 

[daveinplzen]

.. and on and on ..

...and still no credible response, ......and still no credible response, ...and still no credible response

 

[Deleted member 22389]

.. and on and on ..

and on and on...

 

[daveinplzen]

and on and on...

...and still no credible response, ......and still no credible response, ...and still no credible response

 

[A1X]

[TWEET]1219264670357499904[/TWEET]

 

[A1X]

What I see now from Brexiteers, is a realisation of the magnitude of the **** up they have created, with a plea now of 'oh well, its done now, we have to all get behind it'. Along with astonishment that people are not happy with that

It's amazing, for ages they were crowing repeatedly about how they'd won, but now that it comes to see what it was they really did win suddenly they're demanding we all share the spoils and make the best of it. Almost like there's a growing anticipation that they might not actually like what it is they've won and would quite like to share the blame out if it's all the same to us.

Well nope, hard luck. I didn't want this, nothing that is about to happen has anything to do with me. You own this Brexiters, and everything that happens as a consequence of it is down to you. If we end up all living in mansions and swimming in pools of money like Scrooge McDuck, I'm more than happy to let you have that. And if we end up on the ration lines for our "adequate food", guess who owns that too?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

What I see now from Brexiteers, is a realisation of the magnitude of the **** up they have created, with a plea now of 'oh well, its done now, we have to all get behind it'. Along with astonishment that people are not happy with that

There's only one group that ****ed up dave and that's the people's vote group ,but you know that dont you
Regards
DF

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

...and still no credible response, ......and still no credible response, ...and still no credible response

Talking of credibility you dont live here
Regards
DF

 

[daveinplzen]

Talking of credibility you dont live here
Regards
DF

Yes I do dimwit. until the 31st, we both live in the EU.
You didnt answer my previous question, are you a classically trained dimwit or just a talented amateur?

 

[daveinplzen]

There's only one group that ****ed up dave and that's the people's vote group ,but you know that dont you
Regards
DF

Lets have a laugh. List for me the positives of this cluster**** that convinces me that its been a good move.

 

[Murray 17]

Stop being a drama queen. You posting bullshit and having it pointed out to you on an internet forum is not stalking. If you think it happens a lot then that is because you are frequently posting bollocks, not that you are being stalked.

Well said.

Last week she posted a link to an article saying that we had lost a trade deal with Australia.

When you read the article, it was actually about Australia turning down a suggestion of freedom of movement.

When I pointed this out, she said 'a deal's not a deal until it's agreed'.

That's how negotiations go. One side makes a suggestion, the other rejects it. Doesn't mean the whole deal is dead.

But that doesn't fit in with her narrative.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[vegster]

Its what you have to do to keep your job...

View attachment 119270

I doubt if he will keep his job for long, if you watch him talk on TV he isn't swivel eyed enough or a barking loon, he also struggles to lie, something that Hancock, Raab and Gove have at Olympic standard.

 

[GT49er]

So I do not have to do this multiple times I will answer all three as best I can.

I was an ardent remainer, and still believe that the UK would be better in the EU than out. What changed? Firstly the whinging and whining from those who lost the referendum, it was a democratic vote FFS. And anyone saying it was not legally binding would have argued the toss if the result had gone the other way. But that did not make me switch sides. It was the antics of MPs who did everything they could to thwart the will of the electorate, refusing to vote anything that was put in front of them through, and even taking part in legal challenges to the Brexit process. MPs are there to serve not dictate, it was a disgusting abuse of power.

And no doubt somebody will say that I only switched sides so easily because I had nothing to lose. Trust me when I say that the effect the referendum had on the value of the pound when I was moving over here hurt me very substantially.

I cannot put definitives in front of anyone, I do not have a crystal ball. I have not researched any advantages from Brexit as I was on the other side. But there will be advantages, may not as many as there are disadvantages, and it is up to individuals, companies and government to maximise them. Alternatively the UK could just sit and whinge, whilst the rest of the world keeps turning. The decision is taken, make the most of it.

Top post. Probably the best post out of the 108 thousand odd posts on this thread.

 

[daveinplzen]

Top post. Probably the best post out of the 108 thousand odd posts on this thread.

Yeah, we have no idea what will happen, lets just wait and see. Brilliant.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

You are right that MPs are there to serve, but if they firmly believe that Brexit is bad for the country then thwarting was the right thing for them to do. As has been said many times before the referendum was not legally binding but advisory.
The Opposition parties in Parliament are there to oppose, by definition.

As usual pretty much spot on, it's their job and a lot put it on the line to oppose what their constituents wanted.
They knew that the deals being offered were bad for the country.
P.S sorry about the personal ginger post, I was only having a grin but still cringing a bit as you are a lady and ginger, but did not know that at the time.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

Yet you were told LEAVE MEANS LEAVE but you didn't listen
Regards
DF

It was aimed at gullible, ignorant, racist c***s like you who will believe anything they are told by a lying clown like Johnson, so being of far greater intelligence than a workshy fop like you, no, I didn't.
Brexit is going to be nothing like you originally wanted (except the immigration bit) but I don't see many thickos complaining about that, even Rees Mogg and his cohorts have been silenced.

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

Yet you were told LEAVE MEANS LEAVE but you didn't listen
Regards
DF

That sound bite came about after the vote. Leave means leave was not in the official leave campaign.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

As usual pretty much spot on, it's their job and a lot put it on the line to oppose what their constituents wanted.
They knew that the deals being offered were bad for the country.
P.S sorry about the personal ginger post, I was only having a grin but still cringing a bit as you are a lady and ginger, but did not know that at the time.

Cringe away,


In other news, the House of Lords have not passed the Withdrawal Bill, but sent it back to the Commons for an amendment saying EU nationals should be given a form of proof, when given settled status.
Knowing the inefficiency of the Home Office, and the Windrush scandal, it seems eminently sensible. An ID card would do it.

The Welsh, Scots & Irish assemblies have also voted against it, but will be ignored by arrogant Tories.