[Politics] Brexit

[JC Footy Genius]

So after finally achieving your aim of regaining total parliamentary sovereignty, you wouldn't trust them as far as you can throw them

Regaining the ability to hold them accountable for all their decisions ... no hiding behind the EU #takebackcontrol

 

[LlcoolJ]

I can not say with 100% accuracy if true or not as I can not remember the source but it was recent I heard that it was reported that the Euro Parliament were going to force every member of the EU to use the Euro after 2022 veto or not.

As I say I have no idea what the source was but it was reputable as thats why I took notice of it myself. You are free to disagree I am not intending to start or quote rumours or troll by saying what I have.

This is the problem. Complete and utter nonsense being peddled as fact. You've been conned.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Regaining the ability to hold them accountable for all their decisions ... no hiding behind the EU #takebackcontrol

Because our parliament have been so much better and accountable than their parliament over the last 3 years

Even though you and me both have as much input into their parliament as we have into our parliament (sorry off out)

 

[The Clamp]

This is the problem. Complete and utter nonsense being peddled as fact. You've been conned.

And the infuriating element is that these things are so easy to verify. Which reinforces my opinion that so many leave votes were based on lazy, pre-conditioned ideals that were designed to appeal to the sector that wants to believe anything bad about the EU.
In short; a con job.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

This is the problem. Complete and utter nonsense being peddled as fact. You've been conned.

Facts don't matter. False Facts have just as much weight.

At some point we have to decide to cut off the source of the False Facts, somehow. Almost everyone should want that.

We unfortunately haven't reached that point yet.

 

[Dick Head]

At the end of the day its been a complete waste of time & money as there is little chance of any agreement & will inevitably go to a second referendum which wont solve anything as it will just anger who ever loses & incense the 'leavers' from the first vote who will wonder what their vote is worth if its ignored.

Referendum will end up ... Leave on a bad deal .... Remain & hope we veto the EU plans for a Financial Director and a Euro Army not to mention the fact we would have to use the Euro from 2022 whether we want to or not plans in Euro Parliament

#FakeNews

 

[LlcoolJ]

*No deal* in 7 days time, with the collapse of the UK a few days later.

My guess is that they'll roll the army onto the streets as soon as the EU refuse the extension that they declined last time, and offer a longer one which May will refuse.

Well done, Vladimir - Total victory, textbook hybrid war operation. The sanctions we'll impose on ourselves will destroy us.

I'm sorry if I don't take your predictions of doom seriously but (and I may be wrong) it seems a common theme.

Was it not you who said that a hard Brexit on the 31st of March was guaranteed because of the "deal" done between Banks, Farage and the Italian PM?

I pointed out at the time that trusting an Italian politician was like trusting Adam Johnson at a youth club disco, and I was right.

"No deal" won't happen. Way too many powerful people have way too much to lose.

 

[The Clamp]

Facts don't matter. False Facts have just as much weight.

At some point we have to decide to cut off the source of the False Facts, somehow. Almost everyone should want that.

We unfortunately haven't reached that point yet.

Almost every mess we find ourselves in currently are a product of head burying and false facts. Climate change, Brexit, the rise of the right wing, poverty, the gig economy.

Yes, the facts may be unpalatable but they are the only way to start working on effective solutions. The problem is that so many influential people and bodies are cushioned by wealth and age from many effects of the problems we face.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Because our parliament have been so much better and accountable than their parliament over the last 3 years

Even though you and me both have as much input into their parliament as we have into our parliament (sorry off out)

In the UK we can cast a vote to elect or remove a government whereas in the EU we send Nige and his chums to supposedly hold the Commission, the Council and the numerous EU Presidents to account

 

[LlcoolJ]

Facts don't matter. False Facts have just as much weight.

At some point we have to decide to cut off the source of the False Facts, somehow. Almost everyone should want that.

We unfortunately haven't reached that point yet.

Completely agree.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I'm sorry if I don't take your predictions of doom seriously but (and I may be wrong) it seems a common theme.

Was it not you who said that a hard Brexit on the 31st of March was guaranteed because of the "deal" done between Banks, Farage and the Italian PM?

I pointed out at the time that trusting an Italian politician was like trusting Adam Johnson at a youth club disco, and I was right.

"No deal" won't happen. Way too many powerful people have way too much to lose.

I'll be the happiest on here if something happens between now and next Friday to stop *no deal*.

As things stand, it hasn't.

 

[portlock seagull]

To be fair, I think all these things have some value. How much value is debatable but it was in answer to a post that said because an individual economist had said Brexit would benefit the UK economy 'long term' that this was the case.

I was simply pointing out that more qualified economists said the opposite.

What that means (rather like the economist Mervyn King's view, who I have great respect for) is open for each of us to interpret

Oh don’t disagree, just a word of caution re: economists because they’re really just overpaid mystic megs with spreadsheets

 

[LlcoolJ]

I'll be the happiest on here if something happens between now and next Friday to stop *no deal*.

As things stand, it hasn't.

"Something" will happen.

 

[pb21]

But that would happen even if Corbyn didn't agree to meet May. There's no logic is the argument that it was a trap and it would harm him to take the meeting.

True, I guess my thinking is that what primarily motivated May to bring in Corbyn and Labour was that the most likely outcome of doing so would be political damage for labour and a softened blow for the Tories.

It has reached the point where that is the best course of action to minimise a negative outcome for the Tories, I think that was at the forefront of the thinking, rather than the national interest. Of course there is the slim chance that something positive may happen and May and Corbyn can come to a compromise, but I would think that is unlikely!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

In the UK we can cast a vote to elect or remove a government whereas in the EU we send Nige and his chums to supposedly hold the Commission, the Council and the numerous EU Presidents to account

We send 73 MEPs and they're not all chums with Nigel.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

True, I guess my thinking is that what primarily motivated May to bring in Corbyn and Labour was that the most likely outcome of doing so would be political damage for labour and a softened blow for the Tories.

It has reached the point where that is the best course of action to minimise a negative outcome for the Tories, I think that was at the forefront of the thinking, rather than the national interest. Of course there is the slim chance that something positive may happen and May and Corbyn can come to a compromise, but I would think that is unlikely!

It has already been said this evening that May isn't compromising, just putting her deal to Corbyn and talking at him. She won't budge.

 

[ManOfSussex]

It has already been said this evening that May isn't compromising, just putting her deal to Corbyn and talking at him. She won't budge.

But of course Theresa May and Gavin Barwell suggested and held talks with Labour and then didn't compromise on anything again purely in the national interest and not as part of a strategy for any party political issues or potential electoral gain

 

[Cozzy]

This is the problem. Complete and utter nonsense being peddled as fact. You've been conned.

Sorry dont assume I am of low intelligence enough to be conned , thats typical of most 'remainers' (not accusing you in particular) that everybody who would like to leave must be of sub-intelligence to moron grade troglodyte. I did not claim it to be accurate I just said I heard it (did not see as had back to TV) on a reputable TV news channel with an expert (if there is such a thing) European person (so not an English brexiteer) of repute. I was also pointing out that the EU have plans for other things such as A Euro Army & a Financial Commissioner/Director who would set our tax rate not our own politicians which is far from what the remainers claim as staying the status quo we currently have.

My point being neither a Leave or Remain option will be what is necessarily what is or has been promised and that both options have pit falls so its hardly going to be a great choice.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Can you post links to each and everyone of these experts views please, or the list means nothing. Whilst you're at it, maybe try and find out how many of these experts predicted the 2008 crash. I would presume all of them, so if you can post proof of that as well, people may take your cut and paste lists seriously. If they didn't predict the 2008 crash, or said as the then COE predicted an leave vote would mean a recession and hundred of thousands of job loses, please remove them from your list as they can't really be very expert when it comes to Economics, despite all their fancy titles.

If you can name any reputable economist who is in favour of a no deal Brexit, I'd be impressed. If any one of these successfully predicted the 2008 crash I'd be very impressed. Of course it's tempting (and not wrong) to challenge Economic orthodoxy but there is hardly one shred of evidence that a no-deal Brexit (or any form of Brexit) can work. By all means rubbish Project Fear, by all means argue for Brexit...…. but the economic case is flimsy to say the least. Please provide some reasoning to support your position on how there will be a net benefit to the UK economy (if you convincingly demonstrate this, then you'll be very sought-after by JRM and his ilk because the cupboard is bare.) Or just say that you don't mind taking a hit on the economy because it's worthwhile for other compelling reasons.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Sorry dont assume I am of low intelligence enough to be conned , thats typical of most 'remainers' (not accusing you in particular) that everybody who would like to leave must be of sub-intelligence to moron grade troglodyte. I did not claim it to be accurate I just said I heard it (did not see as had back to TV) on a reputable TV news channel with an expert (if there is such a thing) European person (so not an English brexiteer) of repute. I was also pointing out that the EU have plans for other things such as A Euro Army & a Financial Commissioner/Director who would set our tax rate not our own politicians which is far from what the remainers claim as staying the status quo we currently have.

My point being neither a Leave or Remain option will be what is necessarily what is or has been promised and that both options have pit falls so its hardly going to be a great choice.

Intelligent people get conned. That's why lies are so clever.