[Politics] Brexit

[Maldini]

The UK is going to vote to Remain.I think this thread should be scrapped and another started with practical suggestions of how we are going to deal with the millions of migrants who will come here.Where we will house them.What schools will their children go to.How can we make the NHS better so they can cope with the extra patients.What do we do with the criminals who come here.Damage limitations.Let's start discussing these questions which those on remain never seem to want to answer.What is the ceiling level.How many migrants can we take before even those in the remain camp say enough is enough?

In 10 years we will be debating this all over again because by then another referendum will have been called.By then the UK will truly be f******
Even those on here on the remain side will concede and say Leave were right all along.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

The UK is going to vote to Remain.I think this thread should be scrapped and another started with practical suggestions of how we are going to deal with the millions of migrants who will come here.Where we will house them.What schools will their children go to.How can we make the NHS better so they can cope with the extra patients.What do we do with the criminals who come here.Damage limitations.Let's start discussing these questions which those on remain never seem to want to answer.What is the ceiling level.How many migrants can we take before even those in the remain camp say enough is enough?

In 10 years we will be debating this all over again because by then another referendum will have been called.By then the UK will truly be f******
Even those on here on the remain side will concede and say Leave were right all along.

I have never been as certain that Remain will win as you are. Whilst the polls are moving in the direction of Remain at the moment there are questions about the relative validity of telephone and online polls - telephone polls generally give a higher prediction for Remain and there are contrary views about the reason for this. My underlying pessimism - optimism for you - is based on the fact that Brexit can evoke passionate, simple and emotional arguments in favour of leaving, which those of my persuasion find hard to counter. There again, I'm the sort of person who gets nervous if we're less than 3-0 up with five minutes to go.

One point about looking far into the future (which both sides do)... current migration rates are largely caused by the relative success of the UK economy. This will not last.

 

[pastafarian]

Goodness me, getting an answer on this is like extracting a direct answer from a politician on Question Time.

Ok, let me rephrase it. What are the advantages to the UK, economic or otherwise, of introducing a tier-based system to EU nationals?


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I will answer it quite happily
Can you just confirm first that we actually have the relevant control of our borders to introduce a tier based system to EU nationals right now, or next week if you prefer, whilst we are still members of the EU in a pre referendum timeline.
A simple yes or no should do it.

 

[Hamilton]

I will answer it quite happily
Can you just confirm first that we actually have the relevant control of our borders to introduce a tier based system to EU nationals right now, or next week if you prefer, whilst we are still members of the EU in a pre referendum timeline.
A simple yes or no should do it.

No. You first.

What is your answer.


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[Hamilton]

I will answer it quite happily
Can you just confirm first that we actually have the relevant control of our borders to introduce a tier based system to EU nationals right now, or next week if you prefer, whilst we are still members of the EU in a pre referendum timeline.
A simple yes or no should do it.

Come on. You have had 24 hours to think of an answer to the question I asked yesterday.

I don't need to confirm or deny anything in order for you to provide an answer.

I am interested in the argument you want to put forward.


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[BigGully]

current migration rates are largely caused by the relative success of the UK economy. This will not last.

At what point out of this list of member states is the UK likely to be in a less economically advantageous position at any time in the future, and please offer a reason why those countries might suddenly find some economical parity with the UK, France, Germany ??

Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and the UK.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

The UK is going to vote to Remain.I think this thread should be scrapped and another started with practical suggestions of how we are going to deal with the millions of migrants who will come here.Where we will house them.What schools will their children go to.How can we make the NHS better so they can cope with the extra patients.What do we do with the criminals who come here.Damage limitations.Let's start discussing these questions which those on remain never seem to want to answer.What is the ceiling level.How many migrants can we take before even those in the remain camp say enough is enough?

In 10 years we will be debating this all over again because by then another referendum will have been called.By then the UK will truly be f******
Even those on here on the remain side will concede and say Leave were right all along.

It is the mentaility that winds me up. My answer is simple, anyone who votes to Remain and then wakes up 2-3 years later wondering why it takes longer to access their local services and wondering where all the Brits have dissapeared too in their own town, my answer is simple, you voted for it.

 

[cunning fergus]

Can't believe you are exploiting the victims of these crimes to pursue your own agenda.

There are examples of disgusting Brits that travel to far off places to commit sexual crimes. Bad apples show up everywhere.

Get back to the issues and stop picking up individual cases in an attempt to wield your axe. It doesn't work.


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This thread is about a UK referendum, which means it's a UK debate about UK issues, including the benefits of migration and border security.

What other countries do about there own domestic issues arising from their own domestic security arrangements is entirely up to them.

So back to the debate.......is the consequences if this man's contribution to the UK going to be offset from this bounty of benefits we are told the UK taxpayer gets from migrants?

http://courtnewsuk.co.uk/polish-thug-left-man-learning-difficulties-path-bus/

What do you think the costs are?

We are keeping him for 6 years I guess, he was only with us 2 days so not much contributed in his case.

Couple of mill, or should the victim be just reassured that because somewhere out in the world some Brit is probably beating someone else senseless and chucking them under a bus he doesn't really have a complaint?

 

[pastafarian]

Come on. You have had 24 hours to think of an answer to the question I asked yesterday.

I don't need to confirm or deny anything in order for you to provide an answer.

I am interested in the argument you want to put forward.


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You do need to confirm, as i wish to know if your scenario question is actually physically possible.
whats the point in answering a question about a scenario that could NEVER occur.

 

[Maldini]

I have never been as certain that Remain will win as you are. Whilst the polls are moving in the direction of Remain at the moment there are questions about the relative validity of telephone and online polls - telephone polls generally give a higher prediction for Remain and there are contrary views about the reason for this. My underlying pessimism - optimism for you - is based on the fact that Brexit can evoke passionate, simple and emotional arguments in favour of leaving, which those of my persuasion find hard to counter. There again, I'm the sort of person who gets nervous if we're less than 3-0 up with five minutes to go.

One point about looking far into the future (which both sides do)... current migration rates are largely caused by the relative success of the UK economy. This will not last.

I believe people will vote remain because they are scared to vote leave.They will stick with what they know rather than to go into the unknown.It's sad that people in the UK have little confidence in this country.Most polls have shown a slight lead for remain.The Mail reported an 18% lead with a poll of 1000 yesterday.Yes just one poll and the others haven't reported such a difference.Even Farage is talking about a second vote.Why say that unless he is not confident of the first vote being won by Remain.

Even in a weak economy we will attract migrants from poorer countries from Poland - Albania - Turkey.

 

[GT49er]

I believe people will vote remain because they are scared to vote leave.They will stick with what they know rather than to go into the unknown.It's sad that people in the UK have little confidence in this country.Most polls have shown a slight lead for remain.The Mail reported an 18% lead with a poll of 1000 yesterday.Yes just one poll and the others haven't reported such a difference.Even Farage is talking about a second vote.Why say that unless he is not confident of the first vote being won by Remain.

There won't be a second vote. Not unless we vote to leave, in which case there will be another one within 12 months!

 

[Deleted member 22389]

We used to work 8 hours a day in this country with good working conditions, there was enough money at the end of the week to get on with on your life. Now we have people from other countries working 12 hours a day for the same money, and brits are called lazy. I'm sick of it.

British people have been run down by the cost of living. Eastern Europeans for example get a fresh start, work their arses off for 10 years, send the money back home, claim benefits on top and buy a nice house back home, they are set up for life. That is the biggest difference.

Brits are becoming disadvantaged from the start, why the hell would anyone want to support Remain. The same banks who ruined this country, are the same banks people are listening too and telling us all to Remain.

 

[Maldini]

There won't be a second vote. Not unless we vote to leave, in which case there will be another one within 12 months!

Yes I agree.I don't think for one minute if we vote Leave,Cameron or the EU will let us go that easily.On the other hand the day after the vote if/when we vote Remain it will be on to other business and the EU will be put to the back of the queue.

 

[Maldini]

It is the mentaility that winds me up. My answer is simple, anyone who votes to Remain and then wakes up 2-3 years later wondering why it takes longer to access their local services and wondering where all the Brits have dissapeared too in their own town, my answer is simple, you voted for it.

It's strange.It's like standing in the middle of a busy road.You know cars are coming but you don't think you will be hit.

Remain know the migrants are coming and far more in the future.They know the strain that will put on the UK but they somehow believe they won't be affected.Weird.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

It's strange.It's like standing in the middle of a busy road.You know cars are coming but you don't think you will be hit.

Remain know the migrants are coming and far more in the future.They know the strain that will put on the UK but they somehow believe they won't be affected.Weird.

I don't get it Maldini, why do these people want to give our country away to everybody else, when there is not enough to go around for our own people. Why has doing the right things for your country, been turned in to such a bad thing. It winds me up.

 

[jgmcdee]

Does the analysis capture all aspects of migrants impact in the UK, for example there are over 14,000 foreigners in prison, which is an obvious drain on the UK taxpayer?

Incorrect.

Foreign National Offenders
The foreign national population held in custody and NOMS-operated IRCs remained just below 10,000 offenders; 9,971 as at 31 March 2016. This represents a decrease of 5% compared to 31 March 2015. This is due mainly to the withdrawal of Home Office commissioned places at Haslar IRC in April 2015 and Dover IRC in November 2015. The foreign national population, however, still represents just under 12% of the total prison population.

The five most common nationalities after British Nationals in prisons in England and Wales are Polish, Irish, Romanian, Jamaican and Albanian, accounting for approximately one third of the foreign national population and one in twenty of the prison population overall.

This whole thread should be taken as testament to Brandolini's Law.

Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/519437/offender-management-statistics-quarterly-bulletin-oct-dec-2015.pdf

 

[GT49er]

Incorrect.



This whole thread should be taken as testament to Brandolini's Law.

Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/519437/offender-management-statistics-quarterly-bulletin-oct-dec-2015.pdf

Oh, only 10 thousand foreign nationals (12% of the prison population) in our prisons. That's alright then.....................

 

[jgmcdee]

Oh, only 10 thousand foreign nationals (12% of the prison population) in our prisons. That's alright then.....................

Then why the need to lie about the numbers in the first place?

 

[GT49er]

Then why the need to lie about the numbers in the first place?

I didn't.

 

[jgmcdee]

I didn't.

I never said you did.