[Politics] Brexit

[yxee]

Media reports of a random 'leaked' letter from a random consultancy firm with no special insight is all they need to complete the narrative in their heads. They voted the right way and need constant validation, remember?

 

[Soulman]

How can you possibly be in a position to make such a statement? Because she has not elucidated a plan, does not mean there is no plan. And, seriously, do expect her to reveal her hand in advance of any negotiations? I assume that you are not in business.

Exactly.

 

[pastafarian]

I'm curious as to why you come to this conclusion. Theresa May has said very clearly that the Government has a plan and will not
disclose that plan before the negotiations. This means she will not confirm or deny any element of the strategy. This is akin to a football manager not disclosing who he will buy and also who he will not buy during the transfer window. He might be accused of being unnecessarily secretive with the latter but if he confirms everyone who will
not be bought then that will by default reveal his hand.
You might disbelieve May when she says she has a plan but that's completely different from interpreting her unwillingness to give
detail as meaning she has no plan.

there is some twisted logic flying around on here from some remainers

im sure there is a plan against villa, its a secret plan between Hughton and the players.
But he wont tell me what it is or you or the press or Aston Villa.......because that would be a bit stupid really..........the only conclusion to come to is that he has no plan

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

The only plan is to make Brexit a success like the Titanic.

 

[beorhthelm]

I think in this day and age there is very little " unskilled ' work, certainly in shop work, even the lowliest staff have to " deliver " the highest level of customer service at all times. The minimum wage is a minimum baseline and the living wage should be seen as the norm.

Ask yourself if you could/would work for £ 7.41 an hour and you may answer your own question..

there is no "skill" to being polite and answering some questions from shoppers, to the level of service expected from cashiers and shelf-stackers. its everyday interaction, basic capability by the vast majority of the population, requing no training. skilled work means doing training and hundred of hours of work to gain competence.

and i did work for a lot less than that once upon a time, adjusting for inflation.

i note that you avoided the question, other than to defer to the minimum wage as a baseline, which infers that someone earning that is acceptable.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Apparently Mr Johnson has some idea of the plan, well at least his idea of the plan, unfortunately he hadn't told Mrs May.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37995606

Tricky one this. I agree that Boris is a loose cannon. However it is a bit rich for European politicians to complain about a robust pre positioning given the comments emanating from many of their colleagues since the vote about making an example of the U.K. to deter others from following the same route. Many Remainers backed this EU approach. Now that Trump has been elected and the EU is feeling squeezed they are being more amenable. Quite why Boris is saying anything though is difficult to understand...

 

[Mayonaise]

The only plan is to make Brexit a success like the Titanic.

The one thing I would really like now is for Boris Johnson to feck off out of government. The man is an embarrassment and will be a liability in our efforts to move forward into 2017 and beyond.

How is it ok to have a total buffoon as our representative in the foreign office.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

Tricky one this. I agree that Boris is a loose cannon. However it is a bit rich for European politicians to complain about a robust pre positioning given the comments emanating from many of their colleagues since the vote about making an example of the U.K. to deter others from following the same route. Many Remainers backed this EU approach. Now that Trump has been elected and the EU is feeling squeezed they are being more amenable. Quite why Boris is saying anything though is difficult to understand...

It was May's decisions to put these people in her cabinet, Boris Johnson and Liz "pork market" Truss are particularly baffling appointments.

At the same time you've got Boris spouting off his plans for Brexit, Gove is asking for a quickie divorce with the EU like it's as simple as getting a shotgun wedding in Las Vegas annulled.

 

[vegster]

]there [/B]is no "skill" to being polite and answering some questions from shoppers, to the level of service expected from cashiers and shelf-stackers. its everyday interaction, basic capability by the vast majority of the population, requing no training. skilled work means doing training and hundred of hours of work to gain competence.

and i did work for a lot less than that once upon a time, adjusting for inflation.

i note that you avoided the question, other than to defer to the minimum wage as a baseline, which infers that someone earning that is acceptable.

I'm assuming you don't teach English ?

 

[McTavish]

there is some twisted logic flying around on here from some remainers

im sure there is a plan against villa, its a secret plan between Hughton and the players.
But he wont tell me what it is or you or the press or Aston Villa.......because that would be a bit stupid really..........the only conclusion to come to is that he has no plan

But the UK is not a private company it is a Parliamentary democracy and T. May is answerable to Parliament. To take your analogy further, do you think that if Tony Bloom asked CH what his plan against Villa was he wouldn't tell him?

In addition, Villa are well aware what outcome BHA want from the match - they want to score more goals than Villa; but no-one has any idea of the outcome the UK government want to achieve. If all that they want to achieve is Brexit then no negotiation is required at all...we just leave (the Ppf solution).

 

[vegster]

there is no "skill" to being polite and answering some questions from shoppers, to the level of service expected from cashiers and shelf-stackers. its everyday interaction, basic capability by the vast majority of the population, requing no training. skilled work means doing training and hundred of hours of work to gain competence.

and i did work for a lot less than that once upon a time, adjusting for inflation.

i note that you avoided the question, other than to defer to the minimum wage as a baseline, which infers that someone earning that is acceptable.

I will have to assume the beer has kicked in ? Anyway, even the lowliest of shopworkers these days have to give examples of how they have performed as team players and delivered outstanding customer service in order to A, get the job, then B, be lucky enough to get any kind of annual pay rise. My well known High Street chain are conducting our annual pay reviews in December, six months after the pay review date and we have been told we have to show that we have performed exceptionally well to gain a pay rise ( not expecting this to be more that 1.5% if anything)

What you should realise is that many many people are struggling, we did not cause the financial crash that we are still paying for and have little hope of ever breaking out of the chain of despair of low wages and low expectations.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

I will have to assume the beer has kicked in ? Anyway, even the lowliest of shopworkers these days have to give examples of how they have performed as team players and delivered outstanding customer service in order to A, get the job, then B, be lucky enough to get any kind of annual pay rise. My well known High Street chain are conducting our annual pay reviews in December, six months after the pay review date and we have been told we have to show that we have performed exceptionally well to gain a pay rise ( not expecting this to be more that 1.5% if anything)

What you should realise is that many many people are struggling, we did not cause the financial crash that we are still paying for and have little hope of ever breacking out of the chain of despair of low wages and low expectations.

Have we left the mighty EU yet? though......i thought it was all roses and .champagne....

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

How can you possibly be in a position to make such a statement? Because she has not elucidated a plan, does not mean there is no plan. And, seriously, do expect her to reveal her hand in advance of any negotiations? I assume that you are not in business.

And I can presume you're not in business either. Not showing your hand is one thing. Looking like you don't have a clue is something else.

And the old don't-show-your-hand line is a very tired and unimaginative cliche. Having an unchallengeable argument/case is all you need to win a negotiation.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

But the UK is not a private company it is a Parliamentary democracy and T. May is answerable to Parliament. To take your analogy further, do you think that if Tony Bloom asked CH what his plan against Villa was he wouldn't tell him?

In addition, Villa are well aware what outcome BHA want from the match - they want to score more goals than Villa; but no-one has any idea of the outcome the UK government want to achieve. If all that they want to achieve is Brexit then no negotiation is required at all...we just leave (the Ppf solution).

Your analogy is missing the glaringly obvious...Tony wouldn't disclose the game plan to Villa... disclosing the Brexit plan to
Parliament at this stage would be public and therefore would be disclosing it to the EU.
There is plenty of precedent for Government negotiating deals behind closed doors.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

As an aside I've had a lovely Brewdog Jet Black Heart stout, a Mikkeller Chipotle Stout and a British take on the North German alt-bier tonight.

Love and peace x

 

[portslade seagull]

I will have to assume the beer has kicked in ? Anyway, even the lowliest of shopworkers these days have to give examples of how they have performed as team players and delivered outstanding customer service in order to A, get the job, then B, be lucky enough to get any kind of annual pay rise. My well known High Street chain are conducting our annual pay reviews in December, six months after the pay review date and we have been told we have to show that we have performed exceptionally well to gain a pay rise ( not expecting this to be more that 1.5% if anything)

What you should realise is that many many people are struggling, we did not cause the financial crash that we are still paying for and have little hope of ever breaking out of the chain of despair of low wages and low expectations.

Am I missing something. What relevance does this have to Brexit as someone else has pointed out it will be at least 2yrs before we leave. I think most have missed pay rises including myself since the banking crash but we are not blaming it on Brexit

 

[GT49er]

And the old don't-show-your-hand line is a very tired and unimaginative cliche.

.................and one which our very own Tony Bloom would appear to have mastered, to near perfection. Bloom out?

 

[McTavish]

Your analogy is missing the glaringly obvious...Tony wouldn't disclose the game plan to Villa... disclosing the Brexit plan to
Parliament at this stage would be public and therefore would be disclosing it to the EU.
There is plenty of precedent for Government negotiating deals behind closed doors.

The BHA Plan is to score more goals than Villa, it's not a secret. The tactics may be slightly more confidential.
So forget about the Brexit tactics - what's the plan?

And I can't think of a single Government negotiation where the outcome was not implicitly or explicitly clear (perhaps you could enlighten me) but with Brexit what is the desired outcome? In or out of the Single Market, in or out of free movement of people, in or out of a customs union etc etc?

To bring it back to the "business" level, if you ask a plumber to fit a bathroom does he give you a price or does he say "that's a secret - what are you offering?"

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

The BHA Plan is to score more goals than Villa, it's not a secret. The tactics may be slightly more confidential.
So forget about the Brexit tactics - what's the plan?

And I can't think of a single Government negotiation where the outcome was not implicitly or explicitly clear (perhaps you could enlighten me) but with Brexit what is the desired outcome? In or out of the Single Market, in or out of free movement of people, in or out of a customs union etc etc?

To bring it back to the "business" level, if you ask a plumber to fit a bathroom does he give you a price or does he say "that's a secret - what are you offering?"

The plan is to leave the EU. This will come with negotiation. Both sides need to be sitting in a room to discover what is achievable. Your arguments could equally apply to the EU. If there is a negotiation then the outcome is not clear...by definition. So basically think of any Government negotiation with contractors for instance. There will be a range of possible options and the one
selected will be dictated by the negotiation process.
We can though all take a view. It seems clear to me that we will be negotiating access to the single market rather than membership, free movement is up for discussion (see Merkel's speech) and we will be out of the customs union as we will be in control of our tariff policy.
This is uncharted territory for both sides but it is the will of the British people.
Regarding the plumber it is hardly the same. We are not buying anything. We are negotiating and the outcome will be a compromise where both sides are partially happy.
I don't expect you to be happy with this because many people who voted Remain are determined to be unhappy with this process regardless. Anyway, I have tried. Let's agree to disagree as I need to get some sleep.

 

[GT49er]

Let's agree to disagree as I need to get some sleep.

That's all very well for you, but some of those poor remainers haven't had a wink of sleep since June 24th. Poor lambs - a bit of compassion required here, if you please!