Bomb victims worth only £11K

[Mr Blobby]

Geez ... sort your thinking out, Blobby.

So iI guess you will not be voting Tory then!



Davis attacks UK multiculturalism

Mr Davis is front-runner to succeed Michael Howard as Tory leader
Shadow Home Secretary David Davis is calling on the government to scrap its "outdated" policy of multiculturalism.
Allowing people of different cultures to settle without integrating let the "perverted values of suicide bombers" take root, he told the Daily Telegraph.

The leadership hopeful urged ministers to build a single nation and demand "respect for the British way of life".

The Muslim Council of Britain says there is no contradiction between multi-culturalism and integration.


Mr Davis said he agreed with Trevor Phillips, the chairman of the Commission for Racial Equality, who last year said multiculturalism belonged to a different era.

Mr Phillips said all citizens should "assert a core of Britishness".

'Good and bad imams'

Mr Davis' remarks came after Home Office Minister Hazel Blears met Muslim leaders in Oldham in the first of a series of meetings to discuss concerns following the London bombings.

In an article for the Daily Telegraph, he said: "We must speak openly of what we expect of those who settle here," he said.

Non-Muslims had obligations to work for equal opportunities, accept the mainstream version of Islam as part of society, and reject racism.

It is perfectly possible to be integrated in a wider British society while also holding on to your faith and values

Inayat Bunglawala
Muslim Council of Britain

But Muslims had to confront terrorism, not just condemn it.


Mr Davis said Muslims had to "root out" imams who failed to "understand the conventions of British society".

He said: "We must acknowledge there are good imams and bad imams."

He strongly criticised Birmingham Central Mosque chairman Mohammed Naseem for focusing his anger on the security services rather than the London bombers after one of the suspected terrorists was arrested in the city.

Mr Davis said: "Searching questions now have to be asked about what has been happening inside Britain's Muslim communities and how the perverted values of the suicide bomber have been allowed to take root.

"Britain has pursued a policy of multiculturalism - allowing people of different cultures to settle without expecting them to integrate into society.

"Often the authorities have seemed more concerned with encouraging distinctive identities than with promoting common cultural values of nationhood."

Human rights hurdles?

Mr Davis called for a new border control police force to secure Britain's "porous" borders and an urgent review of the process of granting British citizenship.

The government should allow evidence from phone-taps to be used in court, argued Mr Davis.

 

[Creamy]

Alternatively stop so many assylm seekers living on benefits and then killing innocent people

Mr Blobby

Sometimes I really DESPISE people

 

[tedebear]

Its probably not your personal fault as a tax payer no, but you could perhaps blame society. Though the terrorist cant be held accountable or captured and made to pay as he blew himself up

Why shouldnt the familes get some compensation? should be a damn sight more than 11k as well. These families have got funerals to pay for, bills to pay, loss of earnings etc

The whole things sounds strange to me....

11k frankly is a slap in the face...for someones life...

I don't believe they should get compensation, or more to the point I don't believe that we should pay....sorry if this is against the popular thought but I think its bizarre and out of scale with what the public purse should be used for.

 

[Mr Blobby]

The £11k is a mandatory payment. Any lose of earnings for a family is dealt with seperately (can claim up to £500k)

I have no problem with my taxes being used for this purpose.

 

[Mr Blobby]

Sometimes I really DESPISE people

Let me try and put it slightly differently

What I cant stand is people who move to another country, but then dont want to integrate into society. I hate the way that English people buy properties in France and make no effort to fit in with the local culture and lear the local language. If they want a shop selling English food and everyone speak English why move? I think it is the same with some people who come to the UK. If they want to live in a society where they have no respect for women, they have no respect for local culture and heritage, then i do not understand how they expect to be accepted into the local community.

Having a multi cutural society is good and the way forward, tolerance has to be there, but the effort has to be on all sides.

When i go abroad on holiday i respect the local culture and would not expect anyone to change there behaviour so that i can feel as if i am in a mini England abroad, I wouldnt want that.

I couldnt give a toss what colour/religion a person is until it effects other people. Religion should be a personal matter and people should stop trying to convert the world to Islam or Christianity, or Hindu or Seek.

Poeple should respect each other, but they should accept local culture and try and fit in.

Mr Blobby

 

[Lady Whistledown]

This compensation issue always comes up when someone dies unlawfully. I remember one of the papers kicking up a stink as Sarah Payne's family got £10k or whatever, while someone who took his employer to a tribunal for being sacked got £500k.

The point is, the money from the Criminal Injuries compensation fund is basically a gesture, that's all. Its not meant to replace someone, how could it ever do that? It might help families get through a hard time, maybe help with funeral costs, or do something to try and assist the children who've lost a parent, but that's all.

It can't ever be more than a gesture, after all, how can any of us ever say what someone's life is worth? If your son/daughter was killed, how much would it take to compensate? £1 million? £10 million? £100 million? Answer: it can't, hence this fund. The 9/11 families were paid out of their companies' employee liability insurance, which is why there's a difference.

To introduce larger amounts would be going down the road of having to assess how much somebody was worth, which would potentially be far more damaging to families. Imagine a sliding scale- "Well sir, your wife was 37, so had a good few employable years in front of her, so that's in your favour, however she had had some time off sick recently so we'll deduct that, plus a 7 year deduction for child-bearing and raising, and she had been having an affair with the milkman, so we'll knock some off to compensate for the prospect that she might have left you anyway...." etc etc

 

[London Calling]

Let me try and put it slightly differently

"I think it is the same with some people who come to the UK. If they want to live in a society where they have no respect for women, they have no respect for local culture and heritage, then I do not understand how they expect to be accepted into the local community"

I'm sure whether they are indigenous white, working class, Jewish, Huguenot, Pakistani, Turkish, Bangladeshi etc all have respect for each other cultures. Whether they can respect the cr*p hole of UK with all of its inherent problems is another question.

London certainly accepts all nations into the local community. And yes, only someone living in a fantasy world would imagine that there are not tensions between some cultures especially, when there has been war and discrimination between these cultures.

Muslims certainly respect their women. And depending on the nation, culture, religious ideals or not, these women will be equal and have greater respect than the way the UK promotes, treats its women. Equally I am more than aware of some of the problems and attitudes Muslim women face but this includes that these women also face the greatest racial discrimination and attacks of all of our citizens.

LC

 

[DJ Leon]

Muslims certainly respect their women. And depending on the nation, culture, religious ideals or not, these women will be equal and have greater respect than the way the UK promotes, treats its women. Equally I am more than aware of some of the problems and attitudes Muslim women face but this includes that these women also face the greatest racial discrimination and attacks of all of our citizens.

LC

Do they? Are we talking British Muslims? Because of course in most Muslim theocracies they're not allowed to vote, or be educated etc.

I would disagree that the greatest challenge Muslim women face comes from discrimination received in this country. I think there is the little issue of their civil rights.

 

[Norman Baker suck my lozenge]

blimey - anyone else find that as odd as me - not in a bad way - just think its strange the government should find it necessary to compensate people for something thats nobodies fault??

What's even stranger is a prisoner getting 50k compo because he injured himself trying to escape...or asylum seekers getting 250k compo because they hijacked a plane,welcome to blairs Britain.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Do they? Are we talking British Muslims? Because of course in most Muslim theocracies they're not allowed to vote, or be educated etc.

I would disagree that the greatest challenge Muslim women face comes from discrimination received in this country. I think there is the little issue of their civil rights.

Oh come now Leon, they don't do so bad.

They get nice veils to wear.
They get to wear black on the desert to stop them getting cold [ while the men all wear white] They probably chose it though, as 'black is slimming' according to Mrs Kraay's mags.
Thye don't have to worry their pretty little heads about who to marry - its all done for them.
No expensive plastic surgery, there's a plentiful supply of battery acid if they upset their hubbies.
They don't have to go through the trauma of messy divorce - they have gas ovens. [Dangerous things]
No traumatic rape trials - thye get happily stoned to death on the grounds of adultery.

Must be brilliant to be a happy muslim woman out there. No wonder they hate it here. we even make the girls get an education FFS.

 

[London Calling]

Oh come now Leon, they don't do so bad.

They get nice veils to wear.
They get to wear black on the desert to stop them getting cold [ while the men all wear white] They probably chose it though, as 'black is slimming' according to Mrs Kraay's mags.
Thye don't have to worry their pretty little heads about who to marry - its all done for them.
No expensive plastic surgery, there's a plentiful supply of battery acid if they upset their hubbies.
They don't have to go through the trauma of messy divorce - they have gas ovens. [Dangerous things]
No traumatic rape trials - thye get happily stoned to death on the grounds of adultery.

Must be brilliant to be a happy muslim woman out there. No wonder they hate it here. we even make the girls get an education FFS.

You will note that these disgusting crimes actually happen in the states and in generally the rural poor, lawless areas. In countries with no democracy. The abuse of women by the Taliban was one of the reasons I supported the invasion of Aghanistan. When Pakistan had a democracy it voted in a women President.

If you now take a social democracies like Morocco and Turkey, and especially Morocco. The interaction of women in these socities espcecially politically, shames the UK. In fact some of the social rights for women in Morocco would embarrass our nordic cousins.

I feel all we can strive for is facilitating democracies and equality of women, and let them make the choice about veils etc. In Morocco we were surprised by the levels of "dress" of Moroccan women that range from the "all black gown and veil" to some right racy numbers.

I certainly don't dismiss the way some Muslim women are treated in the uK, but generally ourmedia vision of Muslims is based upon observing the immigrants from rural poor pakistan. Observing the Turkish and Kurdish women i the UK and especially around Hackney, would give a rather more enlightened view.

LC

 

[hans kraay fan club]

You will note that these disgusting crimes actually happen in the states and in generally the rural poor, lawless areas. In countries with no democracy. The abuse of women by the Taliban was one of the reasons I supported the invasion of Aghanistan. When Pakistan had a democracy it voted in a women President.

If you now take a social democracies like Morocco and Turkey, and especially Morocco. The interaction of women in these socities espcecially politically, shames the UK. In fact some of the social rights for women in Morocco would embarrass our nordic cousins.

I feel all we can strive for is facilitating democracies and equality of women, and let them make the choice about veils etc. In Morocco we were surprised by the levels of "dress" of Moroccan women that range from the "all black gown and veil" to some right racy numbers.

I certainly don't dismiss the way some Muslim women are treated in the uK, but generally this is based upon observing the immigrants from rural poor pakistan. Observing the Turkish and Kurdish women i the UK and especially around Hackney, would give a rather more enlightened view.

LC

Apologies for any offence LC. Whilst the issue are clearly serious my post was slightly tongue in cheek. Most will have spotted that.

My point is that to come here from some of these states, where apalling human rights abuses continue, then complain about the treatment here, seems odd.

 

[London Calling]

Apologies for any offence LC. Whilst the issue are clearly serious my post was slightly tongue in cheek. Most will have spotted that.

My point is that to come here from some of these states, where apalling human rights abuses continue, then complain about the treatment here, seems odd.

No offence taken. I realised that my comments were slightly blase.

But I was hoping to break down the viewpoint that all Muslims are all just one culture. The differences in Pakistan alone are greater than say: the more liberal London and wealthy west end to our rural sheep shagging back waters.

I was listening to a great Radio 5 interview last week that had a rep from Islammic Democracy etc on. He was having a good whinge about the UK, when the presenter asked, "Well name me a better country to live", "Please give me details of a Muslim country with a better democracy".

Silence.

I would have pop up a few names. But the point was made.

LC

 

[Arthur]

Muslims certainly respect their women.

LC [/B]

Oh yeah really respect their women!

http://s9.invisionfree.com/UBA_Forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=908754

 

[Mr Blobby]

Pakistan region to discourage singing and dancing!!!!

Pakistan 'Taleban law' attacked

The law is aimed at moral policing
Pakistan's Supreme Court has ruled that various clauses of a bill introducing a Taleban-style moral code in North-West Frontier Province are unconstitutional.
It said the provincial governor was not obliged to sign the bill, which has been passed by the NWFP assembly.

President Pervez Musharraf had asked the Supreme Court to declare the new bill unconstitutional and a breach of people's fundamental rights.

The NWFP government says it was mandated to pass the bill when elected.

It will be very difficult for the provincial legislature to enact this legislation

Mirza Mahmood Ahmed
Constitutional lawyer

The bill includes measures to ensure people respect calls to prayer and to discourage singing and dancing.

Defence counsel and former law minister Khalid Anwar argued on Wednesday that the Hisba (Accountability) bill had not been passed into law.

It was a just legislation passed by the provincial assembly and the Supreme Court could not give an adverse ruling on it, he said.

The court accepted his argument. "We can only form an opinion whether it is constitutional or not," it said.

Lawyers however say that although the court's opinion may not be legally binding, it is morally so.

"It will be very difficult for the provincial legislature to enact this legislation if the Supreme Court is of the opinion that it is unconstitutional," constitutional Mirza Mahmood Ahmed says.

To become law it must be signed by the provincial governor.

Musharraf crackdown

The BBC's Aamer Ahmed Khan in Karachi says the court's observation is significant as it indicates the possibility of a continuing wrangle between the federal and provincial governments.


President Musharraf is trying to crack down on extremism

The bill could be only revoked through an executive act by the president.

This could heighten pressure on General Musharraf, who is cracking down on extremism and trying to reassure the world that Pakistan is moderate.

The Hisba bill was passed by the NWFP assembly in July, with 68 votes in favour and 34 against.

Under the bill, an Islamic watchdog would monitor the observance of Islamic values in public places in NWFP.

The plan is reminiscent of the infamous Department of Vice and Virtue, set up by the Taleban regime in Afghanistan.

It became a focus of criticism by human rights organisations.

 

[London Calling]

Oh yeah really respect their women!

http://s9.invisionfree.com/UBA_Forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=908754

Not disputing that, as you will read from my posts. But that is not the totality of Muslim world.

We could bring in the US Human Rights in here - 2005. The number of blacks disaportionately in prison, the number on death row and the number being killed by electric chair.

Go back to the late 50's's and the blatant murdering of Algerians in Paris by French police.