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“Be careful what you wish for Brighton fans” - How the football world owes us an apology



Skaville

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2004
10,184
Queens Park
Okay then - let's have at it

I am not going to go back over each post on this thread because they are mostly a rehash of older stuff from last year and it would be a pain trying to quote everything individually.

But let's take this 'huge vindication' - Bloom made a decision to sack Hughton - it was a risky decision, sacking a proven coach to replace him with an unproven coach with little resume. Hughton had a remit of getting the club to the PL and keeping them there - something which he did incredibly well. Those who supported the sacking of Hughton have little understanding of how difficult it is to keep a team in the PL (just look at Bournemouth this season) - and Hughton did it with few resources and a bottom three budget. I have posted previously of how difficult it is for newly promoted teams to stay in the PL (two are likely to go down this season) - and for teams that don't get relegated the first season to survive for a second season (have a look at where Huddersfield are today). Again, I made this point before - last season Southampton finished just above Brighton - yet had 11 players earning more money that the highest paid player at Brighton.

It takes a minimum of three years to consolidate any club in the PL - and to do it you have to spend a lot of money - and even then there are no guarantees. To keep a club in the PL you have to spend - and spend big - and even then you can get relegated - look at Fulham last season and Villa this season. During the two seasons Hughton managed Brighton in the PL, the club was down near the bottom in terms of spending on players. The weakness of the squad that Hughton had is demonstrated by even a cursory look at the players who Hughton had to rely on and who are now plying their trade in lower level football - Knockhaert, Kayal, Locadia, Andone, Hemed, Bong. At the same time some of the transfers, which Hughton did not have control over, proved to be dodgy at best - Jahanbakhsh, Izquierdo. The job that Hughton did in keeping the club in the PL was quite remarkable - and that is openly recognised across all levels of the PL.

Now Bloom made his decision - and he was entitled to do that as owner of the club. But let's look at the difference with Potter in his first season - three signings - all of whom broke the club record - and a fourth (Mooy) who was effectively another record signing (he would have been if signed last August - and Brighton were lucky to get him on the relative cheap in January). Bloom spent nearly as much last off-season as he had spent in the previous two seasons under Hughton - and he let Potter bring in the players he wanted. On top of that Potter had the advantage of being able to use two very good younger players - Alzate and Connolly (and picked-up a nice signing in Lamptey) that Hughton did not have at his disposal. Effectively, Potter had half of a new team on the pitch for most games. We have no idea what Hughton could have done with those resources at his disposal (and the guff that Hughton wouldn't have changed is nonsense - he had proven that in the past when he had better players available to him).

Now - Potter (and Brighton) started the season very well - with a win away to Watford (over what has proven to be a very poor Watford team) - and all of a sudden people on here were praising Potter and Bloom for appointing him. Then no win in six games and the doom and gloom set in - then Connolly hits the scene against Spurs and Potter is a genius (and Connolly is going to be sold for £50million). Seven points in the next 3 games - Brighton are up to 8th - and Bloom gives Potter a six year contract. At that point opposition coaches start to figure out how Potter sets his team up - inconsistency sets in - some poor loses, a couple of lucky wins (Arsenal should have won) and then from New Year's day to the lockdown in March not a single win. Brighton are pretty much in exactly the same position as they were the previous season under - and the mood on here is dour. The lockdown came at just the right time for the club and for Potter. First game back and a very lucky win at home to Arsenal - and the rest of the relegation competition are going backwards. Watford lose three players - Fraser refuses to play for Bournemouth, the wheels come off at Aston Villa, West Ham struggle and 7 points from three games mean that Brighton are safe and will likely finish in roughly the same position as Hughton did in his first season in the PL with Brighton. The pressure is off now and the Brighton players can enjoy themselves on the pitch - they deserve it - they have put in a good shift this season.

You need luck in football - and Potter has had a fair share of it this season. In my view the teams in the bottom half this season were weaker than last season. Potter has also had much more financial support from Bloom than Hughton ever got - if Bloom was going to justify sacking Hughton and hiring Potter then he had to pump a lot more money into transfers. Is Potter the next big thing in managerial terms - the jury is still out on that one and will be for some time yet - he has managed for less than a season in the PL. Has Bloom been 'hugely vindicated'? - the jury is also out on that one. We have no idea what Hughton could have done with £80million of a transfer budget and a couple of young players coming through - Brighton might have struggled - Hughton may also have done better than Potter - we have no way of predicting this. Bloom's vindication will not be proven for some time yet.

Next season is going to be difficult - and the pandemic has made it even more so - it will be difficult for most clubs, not just Brighton. I suspect that the PL will be stronger next season - Leeds and WBA will likely have more about them than Norwich and Villa - and I wouldn't be surprised to see the third spot taken by Cardiff who have experience of a relegation dog-fight. If Bloom is committed to Potter then this off-season - short as it will be - he needs to remove the purse strings. Brighton need two strikers capable of scoring goals in the PL (Maupay still hasn't hit double digits this season and the next highest scorer is Troussard with 4) - the top 2 goalscorers for Brighton this season have 13 goals between them - the only teams with fewer are Bournemouth, Villa, West Ham and Watford. Bloom needs to spend at least £100 million this off-season - and even if he spends big on strikers there is no guarantee that they will work out. PL standard strikers are very hard to come by. Don't be surprised if next season is a struggle as well - indeed it could be a bigger struggle than this season as every club will strengthen their squads and Potter will not have the advantage of being an unknown quality. Also some Brighton players may be targeted for transfers - wouldn't be surprised to see Duffy leave and Dunk could well be targeted by one of the bigger clubs. The midfield also needs to be bolstered. Saying that - I expect Connolly, Alzate and Lamptey to make progress and it will be interesting to see what White brings to the party.

So if you want to claim that there has been a huge vindication of Bloom for sacking Hughton and hiring Potter - then I suggest that you need to wait a couple of seasons and see where Brighton are at - indeed you could argue that you need to wait out the six years of Potter's contract. It would be great to see Brighton progress, be consolidated as a PL club and, who knows, do a Leicester and win one for the little guys. But it is way to early to make any judgement on the vindication of Bloom's decision to sack Hughton last season - that would be way too arbitrary based on the evidence to date.

Think you need to hire an editor
 




neilbard

Hedging up
Oct 8, 2013
6,280
Could have done better possibly, but on the performance of the last part of last season .... no ****ing chance.

CH was magnificent it getting us up but he was getting found out. Same tactics, same subs, same defensive approach. We were so predictable it was a liability. Sadly no plan B.
Whilst past performance doesn’t predict future performance, in this case it gives you a bloody good idea of what you are going to get.

I actually find this thread depressing. CH was bloody brilliant and would get a tub of lard promoted from the championship, but sadly he just not cut out for the premier league. TBF, not many are and GP could end up being one of those but at present it’s looking good.
IMHO this season, the premier league is very much stronger outside of the top six.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hughton's inability to adapt and change was his downfall, he did the same at Norwich, ironically he was doing okay at Newcastle then they sacked him, I think they were 12th at the time.

Bloom and Barber were already ringing the changes as far back as January 2019, Ashworth was on his way and Potter already earmarked for the Head Coaches position, the rest is history.
 


rogersix

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2014
8,185
But let's take this 'huge vindication' - Bloom made a decision to sack Hughton - it was a risky decision, sacking a proven coach to replace him with an unproven coach with little resume.

We have no idea what Hughton could have done with those resources at his disposal (and the guff that Hughton wouldn't have changed is nonsense - he had proven that in the past when he had better players available to him).

So if you want to claim that there has been a huge vindication of Bloom for sacking Hughton and hiring Potter - then I suggest that you need to wait a couple of seasons and see where Brighton are at - But it is way to early to make any judgement on the vindication of Bloom's decision to sack Hughton last season

blimey, you need to give your editor a raise :p

again, you're missing the point, hughts would have been relegated by now as he had lost the dressing room, as you would know, if you went to a game. you can't learn everything from reading
 








Jolly Red Giant

Well-known member
Jul 11, 2015
2,615
We all know your agenda from previous posts so most of what you say can be ignored.
So - once again - you won't bother because of some preconceived notion

However, I am going to question two of your points. Firstly, we didn't spend as much this summer as the previous two combined. We bought Izquierdo (who was a success until injury), Ryan, Propper, Locadia, Schelotto, Suttner and Gross first season. They cost close to £50 million between them. We then bought Montoya, Bernardo, Bissouma, Jahanbakhsh and Andone before last season. Again probably about £50 million or more. We didn't spend anywhere near £100 million this summer.

This season

Trousard £18m
Maupay £20m
Webster £22m
Mooy £5m for initial loan and then £9m for transfer in January
Clarke £3.5m
Lamptey £3m

Total - just over £80m

2017-2018
Locadia £14m
Izquerido £13m
Propper £10m
Ryan £5m
Suttner £3.5m
Gross £2

Total - under £48m

2018-2019
Jahanbakhsh £17m
Bissouma £13m
Bernardo £9m
Montoya £5m
Andone £5m
Burn £2m

Total - £51m

Total over 2 seasons with Hughton just under £100m

Total for one season with Potter - just shy of £80m

And there is no comparison in terms of the prices paid and the quality purchased. You also have to take into account that in 2017-2018 it was a championship squad and needed serious upgrading.

.
But all this is irrelevant for you. Potter could win the Premier League and you would still say we should have kept Hughton
Bull**** - that ship has long sailed - yet the Potter fanclub constantly fell the need to defend the decision.
 


Jolly Red Giant

Well-known member
Jul 11, 2015
2,615
Hughton's inability to adapt and change was his downfall, he did the same at Norwich, ironically he was doing okay at Newcastle then they sacked him, I think they were 12th at the time.
he was never given a chance at Norwich - like this season Norwich spent shag all money was spent on players while Hughton was there - you cannot maintain a PL position indefinitely without spending money - yet Hughton has done that over 4 seasons at 2 PL clubs and never been relegated. He is one of the longer severing managers in PL football and one of the few that has never been relegated.

Bloom and Barber were already ringing the changes as far back as January 2019, Ashworth was on his way and Potter already earmarked for the Head Coaches position, the rest is history.
A bit duplicitous on their part given that they were holding meetings with Hughton to plan for this season.

again, you're missing the point, hughts would have been relegated by now as he had lost the dressing room, as you would know, if you went to a game. you can't learn everything from reading

You have a crystal ball do you?

oh, he's definately not albion, so then, obviously, the question is why? :shrug:

Jumping to assumptions again - like has been done on here for what - 3 years now.

he isn't, hence the "red"; oh, and gets very upset if you ask the question :shrug:
How many times do you need to be told that the 'red' in my username is related to politics and not football - and I have told you this personally on several occasions. You seem to think that this is the only forum that I post on (when in fact it is the only football forum I post on).
 






PILTDOWN MAN

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 15, 2004
19,299
Hurst Green
So - once again - you won't bother because of some preconceived notion



This season

Trousard £18m
Maupay £20m
Webster £22m
Mooy £5m for initial loan and then £9m for transfer in January
Clarke £3.5m
Lamptey £3m

Total - just over £80m

2017-2018
Locadia £14m
Izquerido £13m
Propper £10m
Ryan £5m
Suttner £3.5m
Gross £2

Total - under £48m

2018-2019
Jahanbakhsh £17m
Bissouma £13m
Bernardo £9m
Montoya £5m
Andone £5m
Burn £2m

Total - £51m

Total over 2 seasons with Hughton just under £100m

Total for one season with Potter - just shy of £80m

And there is no comparison in terms of the prices paid and the quality purchased. You also have to take into account that in 2017-2018 it was a championship squad and needed serious upgrading.


Bull**** - that ship has long sailed - yet the Potter fanclub constantly fell the need to defend the decision.

One thing you are missing, there was huge unrest in the camp of the style of football and if Hughton had stayed a lot of players would have pushed for a move.
 


neilbard

Hedging up
Oct 8, 2013
6,280
Hughton's inability to adapt and change was his downfall, he did the same at Norwich, ironically he was doing okay at Newcastle then they sacked him, I think they were 12th at the time.

Bloom and Barber were already ringing the changes as far back as January 2019, Ashworth was on his way and Potter already earmarked for the Head Coaches position, the rest is history.

he was never given a chance at Norwich - like this season Norwich spent shag all money was spent on players while Hughton was there - you cannot maintain a PL position indefinitely without spending money - yet Hughton has done that over 4 seasons at 2 PL clubs and never been relegated. He is one of the longer severing managers in PL football and one of the few that has never been relegated.


A bit duplicitous on their part given that they were holding meetings with Hughton to plan for this season.

I agree he was never given a chance at Norwich, as for being a bit duplicitous, Bloom is a shrewd business man and will always have a plan B up his sleeve.

He had a dispute with Harry Findlay over money and cut him from his StarLizard enterprise, Bloom is mercenary, he makes money. Good only knows why he stuck with Hyypiä for so long. :shrug:
 














phoenix

Well-known member
May 18, 2009
2,862
I've decided to ignore all this shit. So bottoms up and carry on in the past, i had a lovely day yesterday with my team Brighton getting 3 points, thanks.
Do carry on talking shit about what has happened last year , beer anyone?
 


drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,392
Burgess Hill
Okay then - let's have at it

I am not going to go back over each post on this thread because they are mostly a rehash of older stuff from last year and it would be a pain trying to quote everything individually.

But let's take this 'huge vindication' - Bloom made a decision to sack Hughton - it was a risky decision, sacking a proven coach to replace him with an unproven coach with little resume. Hughton had a remit of getting the club to the PL and keeping them there - something which he did incredibly well. Those who supported the sacking of Hughton have little understanding of how difficult it is to keep a team in the PL (just look at Bournemouth this season) - and Hughton did it with few resources and a bottom three budget. I have posted previously of how difficult it is for newly promoted teams to stay in the PL (two are likely to go down this season) - and for teams that don't get relegated the first season to survive for a second season (have a look at where Huddersfield are today). Again, I made this point before - last season Southampton finished just above Brighton - yet had 11 players earning more money that the highest paid player at Brighton.

It takes a minimum of three years to consolidate any club in the PL - and to do it you have to spend a lot of money - and even then there are no guarantees. To keep a club in the PL you have to spend - and spend big - and even then you can get relegated - look at Fulham last season and Villa this season. During the two seasons Hughton managed Brighton in the PL, the club was down near the bottom in terms of spending on players. The weakness of the squad that Hughton had is demonstrated by even a cursory look at the players who Hughton had to rely on and who are now plying their trade in lower level football - Knockhaert, Kayal, Locadia, Andone, Hemed, Bong. At the same time some of the transfers, which Hughton did not have control over, proved to be dodgy at best - Jahanbakhsh, Izquierdo. The job that Hughton did in keeping the club in the PL was quite remarkable - and that is openly recognised across all levels of the PL.

Now Bloom made his decision - and he was entitled to do that as owner of the club. But let's look at the difference with Potter in his first season - three signings - all of whom broke the club record - and a fourth (Mooy) who was effectively another record signing (he would have been if signed last August - and Brighton were lucky to get him on the relative cheap in January). Bloom spent nearly as much last off-season as he had spent in the previous two seasons under Hughton - and he let Potter bring in the players he wanted. On top of that Potter had the advantage of being able to use two very good younger players - Alzate and Connolly (and picked-up a nice signing in Lamptey) that Hughton did not have at his disposal. Effectively, Potter had half of a new team on the pitch for most games. We have no idea what Hughton could have done with those resources at his disposal (and the guff that Hughton wouldn't have changed is nonsense - he had proven that in the past when he had better players available to him).

Now - Potter (and Brighton) started the season very well - with a win away to Watford (over what has proven to be a very poor Watford team) - and all of a sudden people on here were praising Potter and Bloom for appointing him. Then no win in six games and the doom and gloom set in - then Connolly hits the scene against Spurs and Potter is a genius (and Connolly is going to be sold for £50million). Seven points in the next 3 games - Brighton are up to 8th - and Bloom gives Potter a six year contract. At that point opposition coaches start to figure out how Potter sets his team up - inconsistency sets in - some poor loses, a couple of lucky wins (Arsenal should have won) and then from New Year's day to the lockdown in March not a single win. Brighton are pretty much in exactly the same position as they were the previous season under - and the mood on here is dour. The lockdown came at just the right time for the club and for Potter. First game back and a very lucky win at home to Arsenal - and the rest of the relegation competition are going backwards. Watford lose three players - Fraser refuses to play for Bournemouth, the wheels come off at Aston Villa, West Ham struggle and 7 points from three games mean that Brighton are safe and will likely finish in roughly the same position as Hughton did in his first season in the PL with Brighton. The pressure is off now and the Brighton players can enjoy themselves on the pitch - they deserve it - they have put in a good shift this season.

You need luck in football - and Potter has had a fair share of it this season. In my view the teams in the bottom half this season were weaker than last season. Potter has also had much more financial support from Bloom than Hughton ever got - if Bloom was going to justify sacking Hughton and hiring Potter then he had to pump a lot more money into transfers. Is Potter the next big thing in managerial terms - the jury is still out on that one and will be for some time yet - he has managed for less than a season in the PL. Has Bloom been 'hugely vindicated'? - the jury is also out on that one. We have no idea what Hughton could have done with £80million of a transfer budget and a couple of young players coming through - Brighton might have struggled - Hughton may also have done better than Potter - we have no way of predicting this. Bloom's vindication will not be proven for some time yet.

Next season is going to be difficult - and the pandemic has made it even more so - it will be difficult for most clubs, not just Brighton. I suspect that the PL will be stronger next season - Leeds and WBA will likely have more about them than Norwich and Villa - and I wouldn't be surprised to see the third spot taken by Cardiff who have experience of a relegation dog-fight. If Bloom is committed to Potter then this off-season - short as it will be - he needs to remove the purse strings. Brighton need two strikers capable of scoring goals in the PL (Maupay still hasn't hit double digits this season and the next highest scorer is Troussard with 4) - the top 2 goalscorers for Brighton this season have 13 goals between them - the only teams with fewer are Bournemouth, Villa, West Ham and Watford. Bloom needs to spend at least £100 million this off-season - and even if he spends big on strikers there is no guarantee that they will work out. PL standard strikers are very hard to come by. Don't be surprised if next season is a struggle as well - indeed it could be a bigger struggle than this season as every club will strengthen their squads and Potter will not have the advantage of being an unknown quality. Also some Brighton players may be targeted for transfers - wouldn't be surprised to see Duffy leave and Dunk could well be targeted by one of the bigger clubs. The midfield also needs to be bolstered. Saying that - I expect Connolly, Alzate and Lamptey to make progress and it will be interesting to see what White brings to the party.

So if you want to claim that there has been a huge vindication of Bloom for sacking Hughton and hiring Potter - then I suggest that you need to wait a couple of seasons and see where Brighton are at - indeed you could argue that you need to wait out the six years of Potter's contract. It would be great to see Brighton progress, be consolidated as a PL club and, who knows, do a Leicester and win one for the little guys. But it is way to early to make any judgement on the vindication of Bloom's decision to sack Hughton last season - that would be way too arbitrary based on the evidence to date.

Blimey, he's back with a vengence!! When you refer to Arsenal and that they should have won, on what basis? I assume you are referring to the away game as you follow that with reference to New Year. Well we dominated the away game apart from one spell. You start of by moaning about others rehashing what's been said and they you do it yourself.

Fingers crossed that CH goes for and gets the Bristol job and they you can infest their forum!
 


Jolly Red Giant

Well-known member
Jul 11, 2015
2,615
One thing you are missing, there was huge unrest in the camp of the style of football and if Hughton had stayed a lot of players would have pushed for a move.

Evidence?

And there is also this misapprehension that Hughton would not have changed the style of football. His teams played to the strengths of the players at his disposal. When Brighton were in the Championship they played a more expansive form of football - when Hughton was at Newcastle they played an exciting attacking brand of football.

I agree he was never given a chance at Norwich, as for being a bit duplicitous, Bloom is a shrewd business man and will always have a plan B up his sleeve.
yes - Bloom is - and we will see over the coming seasons if he made the right choice. It looks relatively good so far. But it really was not fair on Hughton that he was given limited resources to keep the club in the PL (with players he had little say in signing) - and when he gets sacked Bloom opens the purse because he has to prove he made the right decision. Now - Bloom is entitled to do that - he owns the club. But it is one of the reasons why I don't like the way soccer is dominated by vast sums of money - it has taken the game away from its roots.

you don't don't need a time machine to see that the manager has lost the confidence of the players.
Sitting in the dressing room were you?

so, for the record you understand, who do you support?
for the record - answered on numerous occasions.

Corbyn and Hughton, not BHAFC.
Another one with a crystal ball

(and for the record - my support of Corbyn was critical support and I have been highly critical of his approach while LP leader).
 


Jolly Red Giant

Well-known member
Jul 11, 2015
2,615
I've decided to ignore all this shit. So bottoms up and carry on in the past, i had a lovely day yesterday with my team Brighton getting 3 points, thanks.
Do carry on talking shit about what has happened last year , beer anyone?

and we are 24 pages into rehashing this stuff.
 




Jolly Red Giant

Well-known member
Jul 11, 2015
2,615
You start of by moaning about others rehashing what's been said and they you do it yourself.
I am still moaning about it - some people just don't seem to be able to move on and are trying to re-write history.

Fingers crossed that CH goes for and gets the Bristol job and they you can infest their forum!
Why would I go near the Bristol forum (and which one) - the only connection that I have with Bristol is a relative who lived there for a few months in the 1950s.
 




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