BBC news about the gay chants.

[Commander]

Precisely. In addition the 'comeback' chants that Brighton fans use (We're gay and we're beating you, 1-0 to the nancy boys, etc) are themselves homophobic as they imply that a load of limp-wristed, effete homosexuals can't possibly play a real man's sport like football, and thus losing to these people is something to laugh at.

So before we moan at other teams Liz Costa and the Supporters club should take a stand against the vile homophobia spewed out by Brighton fans in an pathetic attempt to be witty. Let's get our own house in order first.

Absolutely.

Or, we could all stop being such a bunch of nancy boys and go back to enjoying the edgy, exciting, piss-taking nature of how football is meant to be.

 

[Puppet Master]

Get over yourself, player rubs his hands up and down his backside in front of Brighton fans, FFS.

I came over myself?

 

[brightonlass2009]

I give a shit, and it is completely different to what scousers are called.

Are you a parent, do you take your kids to the game?

How would you feel if a group of fans asked if you 'passed your son around'

How would you explain to your son or daughter that you are not 'aids ridden scum'

Do you just laugh it off when you're asked 'if you take it up the arse' in front of your children?

Think of it through the eyes and ears of a parent and tell me it's just harmless banter.

Those examples are pure abuse, and I'm pretty sure no fan would deny that. Especially considering the 'passing your son around' one is more akin to pedophilia rather than homophobia.
However to list aspects such as 'does your boyfriend know you're here?' And also 'we can see you holding hands' is quite pathetic. How is that any worse than us turning around and chanting back at them '1-0 to the nancy boys' or 'you're too ugly to be gay.' For the supporter's club to claim those comments are homophobic abuse seems to have actually taken away from the real homophobic abuse that is heard by opposition fans.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

f the answer is yes, then there can be no middle ground, there can be no 'mild' chants. After all, we're told that even the mildest, light-hearted perceived bit of racism is the most heinous crime known to man and must be punished by public flogging.

I think you are getting a little carried away. It is really quite simple. In the ground - chants about holding hands etc can be ignored. They are not very amusing - but there you go.

Outside the ground - for example, when young people are around, people mothers and so on, and are accused of taking it up the arse etc, it is difficult to ignore and is abusive.

It will be interesting in a decade's time to see how attitudes have changed and whether the final nail has been put in the coffin. I suspect this chanting will be looked on as part of a previous ignorant age. I suspect football will survive it.

 

[birthofanorange]

I expect he's offended on behalf of the gays.



And this is the bit that is so ridiculous. People say they don't mind the 'mild' ones such as "Does your boyfriend know you're here?", yet in the same argument they'll say that homophobia is the same as racism. In which case they should have no objection to a 'mild' chant of "You're just a bunch of gollywogs" to a London team like Arsenal with a large black following.

People need to take a step back, stop, and think for themselves, rather than just repeating what they have read / been told they should think. Is homophobia really the same as racism? Is "Does your boyfriend know you're here?" really homophobic? If the answer is yes, then there can be no middle ground, there can be no 'mild' chants. After all, we're told that even the mildest, light-hearted perceived bit of racism is the most heinous crime known to man and must be punished by public flogging. Footballers get an 8 game ban and a £40,000 fine for making a racial slur in the heat of the moment on the pitch, where as they only get a 3 game ban for head butting someone or breaking someones leg and ending their career with a horror tackle.

I 100% believe that if we say it is unacceptable for opposition fans to mock Brighton fans for the city having a large gay population, then we have absolutely no place mocking any other team for being pikeys / inbreds / jobless northerners etc. There is NO difference. And if you take that out of football then it will be the final nail in the coffin of the game, and it will finally have succumbed to the Americanisation and sterilisation that it's been dying of since 1992. And that would be a crying shame.

Excellent post!

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

The funniest chant I heard - was from an Albion fan in that documentary about it - "Stand Up - If You Can't Sit Down". You can't help but smile at that one.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Those examples are pure abuse, and I'm pretty sure no fan would deny that. Especially considering the 'passing your son around' one is more akin to pedophilia rather than homophobia.

Of course - but the lines are a bit blurred here. I think that some on here might say you just need to man up (or woman up) and it is just banter. Remember - there is no middle ground. Apparently.

 

[birthofanorange]

Of course - but the lines are a bit blurred here. I think that some on here might say you just need to man up (or woman up) and it is just banter. Remember - there is no middle ground. Apparently.

How do you define a middle ground? Everybody has their own personal version of that, so what may be perceived as okay to one, is beyond acceptable to another. The only safe way is to ban it in all shapes and sizes. Same for all the stereotypical chants that we give to others that have been mentioned before.
That'll be a lot of fun, won't it?

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

How do you define a middle ground? Everybody has their own personal version of that, so what may be perceived as okay to one, is beyond acceptable to another. The only safe way is to ban it in all shapes and sizes. Same for all the stereotypical chants that we give to others that have been mentioned before.
That'll be a lot of fun, won't it?

I suspect we all know what the middle ground is if we choose to find it.

 

[Triggaaar]

Brighton fans sung: "We've just ****ed you up the arse". Is that acceptable because Brighton fans were singing it?

Bizarrely, it probably is ok. It's obviously rude and not what you want your kids to hear, but it doesn't seem to be anti gay in any way. In fact it does make a difference which set of fans are singing it, because their motives for singing it will be different.

 

[daveybgtt]

Had to laugh at that BBC video, a bus full of brighton fans suffering homophobic abuse with the slogan "do it in a group" emblazoned across the back (ass end?) of it.

 

[birthofanorange]

I suspect we all know what the middle ground is if we choose to find it.

Not at all - you have no idea what I find acceptable and vice versa, that is the nature of being an individual. I have no problem with whatever anyone may say to me, or accuse me of being - they are just simple words that can be ignored if you choose to do so. Equally, some people may choose to react with a swift punch up the bracket! Point being, we are all different, so middle ground is just an ideal concept but one which is impossible to achieve.

 

[clippedgull]

Had to laugh at that BBC video, a bus full of brighton fans suffering homophobic abuse with the slogan "do it in a group" emblazoned across the back (ass end?) of it.

Yes! A bit unfortunate that.

 

[Triggaaar]

And this is the bit that is so ridiculous. People say they don't mind the 'mild' ones such as "Does your boyfriend know you're here?", yet in the same argument they'll say that homophobia is the same as racism. In which case they should have no objection to a 'mild' chant of "You're just a bunch of gollywogs" to a London team like Arsenal with a large black following.

I agree with this, a very good example. You could easily pretend it's silly banter, but it's easier for people to understand it's wrong because the campaign against racism has helped educate people.

I 100% believe that if we say it is unacceptable for opposition fans to mock Brighton fans for the city having a large gay population, then we have absolutely no place mocking any other team for being pikeys / inbreds / jobless northerners etc. There is NO difference.

I disagree there.

 

[birthofanorange]

Had to laugh at that BBC video, a bus full of brighton fans suffering homophobic abuse with the slogan "do it in a group" emblazoned across the back (ass end?) of it.

Yep! It just added to the massive entertainment value of the whole thing - only in Brighton could it happen! Marvellous.

 

[Commander]

I think you are getting a little carried away. It is really quite simple. In the ground - chants about holding hands etc can be ignored. They are not very amusing - but there you go.

Outside the ground - for example, when young people are around, people mothers and so on, and are accused of taking it up the arse etc, it is difficult to ignore and is abusive.

It will be interesting in a decade's time to see how attitudes have changed and whether the final nail has been put in the coffin. I suspect this chanting will be looked on as part of a previous ignorant age. I suspect football will survive it.

My point is, this "It's exactly the same as racism" argument is quiet clearly wrong, if people are happy to hear chants in the ground about holding hands etc.

People keep comparing it to the racism in the 70's and 80's, but it is not the same. That was aimed at individual players and is quite clearly wrong. One set of supporters singing to the other set of supporters about their city having a large gay population is clearly not the same thing.

Say there was an openly gay player, and every time he got the ball the opposition fans booed and abused him for being gay. That would be comparable to the racism in the stands in the 70's and 80's, the current situation is not.

As for individual comments outside the ground, well I don't see what you're ever going to do about that, it's a different matter entirely. If the more scummy opposition fans weren't abusing people for being gay they'd be abusing them for something else, you're always going to get abuse at away games sometimes.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Not at all - you have no idea what I find acceptable and vice versa, that is the nature of being an individual. I have no problem with whatever anyone may say to me, or accuse me of being - they are just simple words that can be ignored if you choose to do so. Equally, some people may choose to react with a swift punch up the bracket! Point being, we are all different, so middle ground is just an ideal concept but one which is impossible to achieve.

Of course we are all different - but the middle ground can be a broad church.

However do you really have no problem with what anyone might say to you ? Would you extend that to your child, or to your mother ?

 

[birthofanorange]

Of course we are all different - but the middle ground can be a broad church.

However do you really have no problem with what anyone might say to you ? Would you extend that to your child, or to your mother ?

I really do have no problem, and if I had a child, I would endeavour to bring them up with the same attitude. It's people's actions that matter, not their words, as they truly cannot hurt me. As for my mother, well, she was pretty much involved (as was my father) in shaping the way I am today, so it doesn't bother her either.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

My point is, this "It's exactly the same as racism" argument is quiet clearly wrong, if people are happy to hear chants in the ground about holding hands etc.

People keep comparing it to the racism in the 70's and 80's, but it is not the same. That was aimed at individual players and is quite clearly wrong. One set of supporters singing to the other set of supporters about their city having a large gay population is clearly not the same thing.

Say there was an openly gay player, and every time he got the ball the opposition fans booed and abused him for being gay. That would be comparable to the racism in the stands in the 70's and 80's, the current situation is not.

As for individual comments outside the ground, well I don't see what you're ever going to do about that, it's a different matter entirely. If the more scummy opposition fans weren't abusing people for being gay they'd be abusing them for something else, you're always going to get abuse at away games sometimes.

I would have agreed with you maybe a year ago. But I think that times are a-changing. As I say - I wonder what this will look like in a decade's time.

Back in the day we used to sing at Leicester fans "Town full of Pakis" - that was not aimed at an individual, and is now clearly unacceptable. Also at the time - it set the tone for the welcome that anyone of a darker skin might get in a football ground.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

I really do have no problem, and if I had a child, I would endeavour to bring them up with the same attitude. It's people's actions that matter, not their words, as they truly cannot hurt me. As for my mother, well, she was pretty much involved (as was my father) in shaping the way I am today, so it doesn't bother her either.

Fair enough. You are a very tolerant chap.

Part of the middle ground .............. (joke).