Auscwitz last night BBC2

[Ex-Staffs Gull]

I think it is strange that I and many others find the assult and murder of Children so much more repulsive than adults. The thought of killing a adult, although alien and stomach churning, does not fill me with the same level of hatred, rage and clear wish to kill the perpetrators as the assults , cruelty and murder of young children. Just a socialogical question, why is this ?

Attila, I know many Germans (friends for many years) who are fighting this bunch of thugs, I can only support your statement fully, and point out that the majority of Germans are more aware than any of the dangers of any form of extreme political movement.

 

[looney]

The overwelming majority of anti-sematism including violence in Europe stems from Muslim immigrants not neo-nazi's.


It also depends what you mean by Fascism. Some people consider it a proxy for Racism and try to broaden that concept for there own agenda.

Sadly I find that the people who pontificate on it the most are the ones who need to take a back seat and STFU. Most seem to have an underlying political agenda even if thats just on which way most immigrants especially second generation vote. The issue is blured and distorted beyond.

 

[cdavis]

Interesting points Attilla......however, one thing that is blatantly obvious to me throughout my life.....is that the stronger, more vociferous and more violent the left-wing brigades get.......it merely serves to create a stronger right-wing element......human nature I,m afraid.........

 

[looney]

Interesting points Attilla......however, one thing that is blatantly obvious to me throughout my life.....is that the stronger, more vociferous and more violent the left-wing brigades get.......it merely serves to create a stronger right-wing element......human nature I,m afraid.........

Different sides of the same debased coin. The left need the rightwing bogeyman to justify there draconian behaviour. The far right thrive on the lefts crap Race relations policies.


Anti-blasphamey law anyone? Hahah... New labour, Medieval Britain.

 

[DJ Leon]

Re: Re: Auscwitz last night BBC2

I'm beginning to find these programmes tedious and politically dubious.

When was the last series on the Gulags?

The nazi's were a one of abberation wereas communism systematically slaughtered 100million globally.

You can bet that he would have been one of the first to collaborate with the Final Solution had he been around at the time.

No it will be the anti-gun owning lefties who will be on the pavements chearing with their lips quivering as ARMED thugs start loading jews into trucks. Gun bans are a historical abberation and a step on the way to what you are talking about. Other people with more sense and a stronger moral constitution would oppose it. In the 30's Socialists and Nazi's competed over the same voters.

What a load of absolute nonsense. Though I do admire Looney's ability to crowbar another anti-leftie rant into a discussion thread about the Nazi's final solution.

On what possible basis though were the Nazis an "abberation" but Communism a systematic slaughterer?

I wonder how many people have been slaughtered by democratically elected leaders? And I wonder how many people capitalism has killed.

Anyway, I'm not sure that any of this has any place on this particular thread.

 

[looney]

On what possible basis though were the Nazis an "abberation" but Communism a systematic slaughterer?

Nazi's one country, Communisms genocide many countries. Although some would argue that there isn't much difference between the 2.

I wonder how many people have been slaughtered by democratically elected leaders? And I wonder how many people capitalism has killed.

Hardly any in relation to tyrants and Democratically leaders can be held accountable.

Capilism doesn't Kill people its a system of trade. Look at virtually all the famines and wars and its down to Government Failure not markets.

 

[looney]

Anyway, I'm not sure that any of this has any place on this particular thread.

Your questioning free speach on a thread concerning totolitarian abuse? Your being Ironic yes?

 

[bhaexpress]

I hate to say it but to a degree I have to go along with Looney here. Communism has killed countless more people than the Nazis.

However, whichever way it goes killing for political ends is every bit as obnoxious as any other reason and under any circumstances unacceptable.

 

[cdavis]

Just an interesting point re Nazi,s and communism......I worked and lived in Germany for three years and visited Buchenwald work camp (East Germany) on a couple of occaisions.....During the second world war i belive something in the region of thirty thousand Jews died there.........after the war when under control of Russia......over 100,000 germans died there..........

 

[attila]

Well, I know which side I'm on.
Looney, your statement about Muslim extremists being the main perpetrators of anti semitism may be true for Holland and France and but it most certainly is not the case in Germany or any of the Eastern European countries, where it is historically sadly still endemic in many places.

The one thing you and I would agree is that pacifism gets you nowehere - except
into a concentration camp.

That's all I have to say here. I spend my life talking and writing about this. I do believe such issues are best discussed openly, face to face.

 

[The Large One]

The overwelming majority of anti-sematism including violence in Europe stems from Muslim immigrants not neo-nazi's.

Not necessarily true.

European history is replete with Muslims and Jews living side by side. It continues today in many places including Tunisia and Morocco. The Christians in Spain from the 13th century onwards perscuted the Jews. Muslims were either forced to accept Christianity or be thrown out. Most took the latter option, taking their belongings with them to North Africa. The Jews were just forced out. The Catholic church had no time for them.

19th Century Tsarist Russia had its 'pogroms', where the beating or executions of Jews went largel unpunished. Nazi doctrine (including the persecution of the Jews), which utilised certain Tsarist ideals, is still ingrained in modern day neo-Nazi beliefs.

Occasional far-right wing people in the UK try to align themselves with anti-semitic Muslim groups, but the truth is, they would no more like to live or work with Arabs than they would with Jews.

 

[DJ Leon]

Anyway, I'm not sure that any of this has any place on this particular thread.

Your questioning free speach on a thread concerning totolitarian abuse? Your being Ironic yes?

How is that questioning free speech? I didn't say you couldn't say it.

And by the way, I think the fact that you have suggested that any programme about Aushwitz is 'politically dubious' STINKS. What on earth are you suggesting?

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Despite having a pretty good knowledge of what went on I have to admit the story of the french children bought me to tears. Torn away from their parents, left to fend for themselves, then eventually shipped to their deaths

The exploitation of local autorites by the nazi's in the Channel Islands indicated to me that if Britain had been invaded we would have shipped of our neighbours as readily as the French or Dutch.

 

[FamilyGuy]

I really don't believe what happened in France and on the Channel Islands would have happened in this country, I really don't.

That's exactly what every country thought when they were invaded by the Germans - "they won't do that here" - and they were all wrong, just like you are I'm afraid.

btw - The Channel Islands is "this country".

Remind me again please why there is any humour at all in wearinga Nazi Geman Uniform to a Party?

 

[FamilyGuy]

On what possible basis though were the Nazis an "abberation" but Communism a systematic slaughterer?

Nazi's one country, Communisms genocide many countries. Although some would argue that there isn't much difference between the 2.

"Nazi's one country" ??

How about Italy (where Fascism started), Spain, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Rumania, - all these countries (and more) had strong Nazi parties throughout the 1930's and 40's

Does Communism actually encourage "systematic slaughter"? I don't know.

Whereas Nazi-ism did (does) actually encourage/demand the slaughter of all Jews and those who do not contribute to the state.

 

[Beach Hut]

I found the part when the Frenchmen was so critical of his fellow countrymen collaborating with non-French jews very moving.

Also the fact that Chanel Island authorities were involved in outing jews appaling.

This whole series has been truely riveting and educating and should be made compulsive viewing for all younger people to perhaps understand the true attrocities that happened.

Sadly somethings never change even as time moves on - Balkan States, Rwanda................

 

[NMH]

Sadly, atrocities will go on.
'Civilisation' is a strange word to associate with humanity, when it can revert to such vile acts upon each other.

It is excrutiating yet compelling to watch the documentary, but what strikes me is how these sad victims complied with their captors so resignedly to their fate. For whatever reason, this made me feel the most compassion, and the most anger .

I have a friend in Argentina who's father sought out original nazis to this day, and seeing this documentary I have no wonder.

 

[eastlondonseagull]

Isn't all this mass-murder less a political thing (ie. Nazi / Communist theory) than the ideology of a deranged mind (Hitler / Pol Pot in Cambodia)?

At the heart of it all is a deranged psychopath (the right word?) who has an insecurity complex. Pol Pot murdered millions in the most atrocious and brutal manner only 30 years ago, his 'followers' picking children up their feet and smashing their heads against trees, tearing off women's breasts and making them eat them while they bled to death. Pol Pot was mad.

Isn't the Rwandan genocide also down to the madness of the rulers?

 

[Franks Wild Years]

My dads Hungarian, his dad was Jewish and his mum was from a gypsy background. He was 10 when the Germans invaded Hungary. One day he was taken into a cellar, hidden in a wooden box and told to keep quiet and not get out.
Hours later when he did get out of the box his whole family was gone. He never saw them again.

About 14 years later him and his friends attacked Soviet tanks with petrol bombs during the uprising. He escaped to England. All of his friends were either tortured and imprisoned or simply shot.

He was an Asylum seeker when he came here he was given a job and somewhere to live.
What would happen to him if he came to this country now ?

Racism is alive and well. Just read the Daily Mail to find out what a large proportion of this country think about Johhny foreigner.
And it is people like FG with their ignorant lazy comments about new Tory policies on imigration who are the thin end of the wedge.

"Sorry to hear all your family are dead and all your mates have been shot but theres really nothing we can do as we've filled our quota for this year. Toodle pip old chum."

Anyway rant over thanks for listening, Goodnight.

 

[Porky]

Part 2 is on Public Television tonight here in the U.S.