Arrogant Germans as usual nothing changes .

[Easy 10]

Making worse teams play more matches seems harsh to me? Particularly given a lot of the players are part time.

We do it every year in the FA Cup.

 

[beorhthelm]

whats arrogant about saying San Marino are a "team of amateurs", they are, aren't they? that should probably be a qualification, that the counties have a professional league, or at least can draw upon a squad of professional players (otherwise a bit awkward for some of the home nations).

 

[studio150]

The presence of San Marino has nothing to do with football, but all to do with votes for Blatter to secure his position at the time.

Maybe the solution is to go down the cricket route, with the top ranked countries being full members of UEFA/FIFA with the lower ranked countries being associate members, who have there own qualification tournament, and a final tournament which is played before the full final tournament, with the winner of the associate final being given a place in the full tournament.

This would mean far more meaningful qualifying games for both top and lower ranked countries.

 

[halbpro]

We do it every year in the FA Cup.

We surely do it in the FA Cup for reasons of practicality, and I still feel it's slightly wrong there. Less fit players playing more games doesn't feel like a great mix to me.

 

[Easy 10]

We surely do it in the FA Cup for reasons of practicality, and I still feel it's slightly wrong there. Less fit players playing more games doesn't feel like a great mix to me.

Why not ? At least they'll get fitter.

When you've got dozens and dozens and dozens of teams in a competition, its perfectly sensible and acceptable to have them play each other in earlier round(s) before the major teams / nations get involved. They're not being excluded from anything - they just have to earn the right to take to the field against the pro's. Its essentially a weeding out process, but a perfectly fair one.

There would still be a route for the likes of San Marino or Andorra to get their day out at Wembley / the Bernabea / Stad de France, with a home leg thrown in too. But not unless they'd got past a few minnows of their own standard beforehand, so we can keep these turkey-shoots to a minimum.

Whats wrong with that ?

 

[Pavilionaire]

On balance I would rather have group games against San Marino than meaningless friendlies like the one tonight.

Arguably, the England manager gets just as much out of trying to break down an 11-man defence against San Marino as he does against two half-hearted giants going up against each other.

Friendlies only serve to give a false impression - in recent years we've beaten Germany twice in a row in their own backyard, we've beaten Brazil, Italy and Spain too yet what does it mean? F*ck all. Those victories have done nothing towards advancing England's cause whatsoever.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Why not ? At least they'll get fitter.

When you've got dozens and dozens and dozens of teams in a competition, its perfectly sensible and acceptable to have them play each other in earlier round(s) before the major teams / nations get involved. They're not being excluded from anything - they just have to earn the right to take to the field against the pro's. Its essentially a weeding out process, but a perfectly fair one.

There would still be a route for the likes of San Marino or Andorra to get their day out at Wembley / the Bernabea / Stad de France, with a home leg thrown in too. But not unless they'd got past a few minnows of their own standard beforehand, so we can keep these turkey-shoots to a minimum.

Whats wrong with that ?

I do actually get your point of pre qualifiers, it does tend to have a rationality about it. However I offer you four letters... FIFA.

Edit: Which reminds me to ask, did England and Scotland wear their poppies?

 

[Mo Gosfield]

It wasn't that long ago that Iceland were being treated as a joke country and too small to have any meaningful impact

They are still too small and in their whole footballing history have never achieved any sort of meaningful result against one of the stronger nations.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Given the very close historical links that exist between the 2 countries, its a surprisingly undiplomatic attack.


Exactly.
It would be like the Germans being unkind to the Republic of Ireland.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

On balance I would rather have group games against San Marino than meaningless friendlies like the one tonight.

Arguably, the England manager gets just as much out of trying to break down an 11-man defence against San Marino as he does against two half-hearted giants going up against each other.

Friendlies only serve to give a false impression - in recent years we've beaten Germany twice in a row in their own backyard, we've beaten Brazil, Italy and Spain too yet what does it mean? F*ck all. Those victories have done nothing towards advancing England's cause whatsoever.

You could replace the mini groups of qualification with larger groups which should mean most games have something on it.

The San Marino v England/Spain etc is killing international football as it is pointless and people are turning off, no one wants to see a team Vs a parked bus and it means people long for league football to return.

You could work it on a ratings basis which means if you improve like Iceland you would not need to pre-qualify

You could also have a lesser nations cup run at the same time so the smaller teams get game time.

The week of football idea that has been brought in is brilliant, but imagine how much better if it was a big game every night.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

It wasn't that long ago that Iceland were being treated as a joke country and too small to have any meaningful impact

They should have no issue getting past Andorra etc - it would be done on rankings so that would always improve and teams would swap places

 

[halbpro]

Why not ? At least they'll get fitter.

When you've got dozens and dozens and dozens of teams in a competition, its perfectly sensible and acceptable to have them play each other in earlier round(s) before the major teams / nations get involved. They're not being excluded from anything - they just have to earn the right to take to the field against the pro's. Its essentially a weeding out process, but a perfectly fair one.

There would still be a route for the likes of San Marino or Andorra to get their day out at Wembley / the Bernabea / Stad de France, with a home leg thrown in too. But not unless they'd got past a few minnows of their own standard beforehand, so we can keep these turkey-shoots to a minimum.

Whats wrong with that ?

We've had this discussion before (during the Euros) and are not going to agree on it. However, teams with less resources being made to play more games seems tricky, to me at least.

I do completely take the general point that less teams would mean less qualifying and less international breaks. I mean it wouldn't actually mean that, we'd have the same number of breaks with more friendlies because FIFA and UEFA want money, but it could mean that in theory.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

We've had this discussion before (during the Euros) and are not going to agree on it. However, teams with less resources being made to play more games seems tricky, to me at least.

I do completely take the general point that less teams would mean less qualifying and less international breaks. I mean it wouldn't actually mean that, we'd have the same number of breaks with more friendlies because FIFA and UEFA want money, but it could mean that in theory.

Could you not have it in the one place? like the Rugby qualifiers

 

[halbpro]

Could you not have it in the one place? like the Rugby qualifiers

I don't know if that's practical. We have 52 teams in the UEFA Qualifying right now, and I would imagine many people like 36 teams. That gives you 9 groups of 4 in qualifying, giving 9 spots that needs pre-qualifying and 27 teams pre-qualified (Greece would be the lowest place team at present). So 52-27 gives 25 teams in the pre-qualifying system. If you do it as a tournament you can potentially just do straight knock out, but you'd have to play a lot of games if you did it all in one place.

 

[Easy 10]

We've had this discussion before (during the Euros) and are not going to agree on it. However, teams with less resources being made to play more games seems tricky, to me at least.

I do completely take the general point that less teams would mean less qualifying and less international breaks. I mean it wouldn't actually mean that, we'd have the same number of breaks with more friendlies because FIFA and UEFA want money, but it could mean that in theory.

I disagree. We don't have International breaks for friendlies, they're PRIMARILY for qualifiers (friendlies just occur sometimes if there's not a qualifier double-header). I cannot see FIFA / UEFA grinding all the domestic leagues to a halt for another 2 weeks just for a round of International friendlies - the clubs would kick off big time. And I doubt a series of meangingless midseason friendlies would be a serious of moneyspinner for FIFA/UEFA anyway.

Nope, if we had less flotsam washing around in these oversized groups, we could indeed cut down on the number of International breaks. 3 breaks between the start of the season and mid-November is utterly RIDICULOUS now. Something needs to be done about it, but unfortunately there isn't the political will within FIFA. So we're stuck with it.

And fvck knows what kind of a MESS we're going to have in qualifying when they expand the Finals to 40-50 odd teams. They are absolutely killing International football.

 

[Biscuit]

What a horrible thread title, it says more about you than it does the German people.

Let's be honest, Muller is completely right.

 

[halbpro]

I disagree. We don't have International breaks for friendlies, they're PRIMARILY for qualifiers (friendlies just occur sometimes if there's not a qualifier double-header). I cannot see FIFA / UEFA grinding all the domestic leagues to a halt for another 2 weeks just for a round of International friendlies - the clubs would kick off big time. And I doubt a series of meangingless midseason friendlies would be a serious of moneyspinner for FIFA/UEFA anyway.

Nope, if we had less flotsam washing around in these oversized groups, we could indeed cut down on the number of International breaks. 3 breaks between the start of the season and mid-November is utterly RIDICULOUS now. Something needs to be done about it, but unfortunately there isn't the political will within FIFA. So we're stuck with it.

And fvck knows what kind of a MESS we're going to have in qualifying when they expand the Finals to 40-50 odd teams. They are absolutely killing International football.

The problem with it is they want to hold all of it in the autumn/early winter. There's not another break till March now. I think they could do a better job of spreading them out throughout the year, but then you run into issues with other competitions.

Also you know they'll keep it the same. Current qualifying takes 10 rounds. Even if you went to groups of four it'd take 7 rounds, which gives plenty of scope of qualifier/friendly double headers.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I disagree. We don't have International breaks for friendlies, they're PRIMARILY for qualifiers (friendlies just occur sometimes if there's not a qualifier double-header). I cannot see FIFA / UEFA grinding all the domestic leagues to a halt for another 2 weeks just for a round of International friendlies - the clubs would kick off big time. And I doubt a series of meangingless midseason friendlies would be a serious of moneyspinner for FIFA/UEFA anyway.

Nope, if we had less flotsam washing around in these oversized groups, we could indeed cut down on the number of International breaks. 3 breaks between the start of the season and mid-November is utterly RIDICULOUS now. Something needs to be done about it, but unfortunately there isn't the political will within FIFA. So we're stuck with it.

And fvck knows what kind of a MESS we're going to have in qualifying when they expand the Finals to 40-50 odd teams. They are absolutely killing International football.

I wouldn't worry.

It will for African/Asian sides for votes

 

[ManOfSussex]

How much TV money did the San Marino Football Federation get for Fridays World Cup Qualifer against defending World champions Germany?

It's all well and good having preliminaries as is done elsewhere in the world, such as AFCON, but I doubt the BFA in Botswana, who lost in Round 2 in African qualifying would earn anywhere near what the San Marino federation would stand to lose by having preliminaries in UEFA qualifying. Money talks.

 

[fat old seagull]

To be fair they are right. If every town in the world, the same size as San Marino or Gibralter, declared themselves as a country what would FIFA do then? Allow them all to enter. There should be some kind of cut off, or preliminary round.

You could easily say every team that finishes bottom of a this group stage has to go through a pre qualification round to limit their numbers for next time. Too many pointless international games are played now.

Surely any independant domain may call itself a country, despite its size...after all Whitehawk plan to call themselves a City!