Argus: Will we see Vicente at training?

[ifuhatepalacestandup]

i dont know what is going on at the moment just that it all leaves a bit of a sour taste in the mouth just wish someone would let us know the actual situation

 

[leigull]

Aren't extension options usually at improved wages though? I'm presuming we were/are trying to sign him for another 2 years, and possibly with the first year at reduced wages compared to the extension option (though probably with more in terms of appearance/promotion bonuses).

The Argus today mentions Gus wanting Vicente to sign a new deal, rather than just maintain the same arrangements as last year. Presume it would include more £££ and possibly be for two years rather than one

 

[Mellotron]

You really are clutching at straws, and it sounds absurd. Mellotron's suspicion is that the agent is to blame, mine is that Vicente is. The rest is just flannel.

You do acknowledge that you ARE making character judgments about one of our players based on things you have made up in your head, yes?

 

[Simster]

You do acknowledge that you ARE making character judgments about one of our players based on things you have made up in your head, yes?

I acknowledge that I am making character judgments about one of our players based on things I have read about and indeed heard from sources away from here. Some of which is necessarily fact, I grant you.

How is that different from what you are doing?

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

You do acknowledge that you ARE making character judgments about one of our players based on things you have made up in your head, yes?

No no no. That's just my 'flannel' apparently.....

 

[Mellotron]

I acknowledge that I am making character judgments about one of our players based on things I have read about and indeed heard from sources away from here. Some of which is necessarily fact, I grant you.

How is that different from what you are doing?

Like I said, I'm judging AGENTS. Not quite the same as one of our players. And even then, I was just guessing that it was the work of the agent, I didn't say "Ah that Mr. Balrainchen has gone down in my estimation" - and even if I had no one could care, because it's nothing like the glorious loving relationship we have with Vicente.

We can't judge the Vicente situation as being like Calde's was, YET.

 

[misterspatch]

What I personally read it as was that Vicente has been getting on with some parenting so hasn't really been bothered to negotiate a new contract yet and the club therefore wanted to keep him an Albion player until a new contract can be reached, so I expect him to be at training next week as Gus said but I don't think its anything bad, just that Vicente is a bit lazy

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Like I said, I'm judging AGENTS. Not quite the same as one of our players. And even then, I was just guessing that it was the work of the agent, I didn't say "Ah that Mr. Balrainchen has gone down in my estimation" - and even if I had no one could care, because it's nothing like the glorious loving relationship we have with Vicente.

We can't judge the Vicente situation as being like Calde's was, YET.

That's two of us that sound 'absurd' now...

 

[Billy the Fish]

You really are clutching at straws, and it sounds absurd. Mellotron's suspicion is that the agent is to blame, mine is that Vicente is. The rest is just flannel.

Once again NSC land is operating in terms of black and white, when the real world only has different shades of grey.

Personally I suspect that you are both wrong and it is neither one nor the other - it's probably both their fault, but more so the agent. 70-30% mabye

 

[Mellotron]

Again I come back to the fact Gus was even confused that someone was asking as to whether Vicente would be at training.

"Oh course, why not?"

He's clearly certain Vicente will be with us.

 

[jackanada]

More importantly is his number going to change to 14?

 

[misterspatch]

more importantly is his number going to change to 14?

this

 

[Mellotron]

More importantly is his number going to change to 14?

this

Why, where's Calde going?

 

[Simster]

Like I said, I'm judging AGENTS. Not quite the same as one of our players. And even then, I was just guessing that it was the work of the agent,

Big laughs! This is what you said:

That, coupled with his slightly disappointed/annoyed sound tone in other parts of the interview, for me suggests it is 100% the agent.

You decided it sounds like it is 100% the agent's fault! I'm not quite sure how you can dress this up any other way! I don't blame you for it, you're only saying it as you see it (much as I am), but let's not try and point score based on the credibility of what you're basing your opinion on.

That's two of us that sound 'absurd' now...

So you've accused me of something I'm no more guilty of doing than anyone else, and are now having a bit of a strop after being pulled up for it. Twice. Instead of acting like a spoilt, chastised teenager, you could always attempt to explain how what I did was so fundamentally different to what Mellotron did, much as I am trying to show that we are simply drawing differing opinions based on the same resources and blaming different people.

 

[Mellotron]

Big laughs! This is what you said:

You decided it sounds like it is 100% the agent's fault! I'm not quite sure how you can dress this up any other way! I don't blame you for it, you're only saying it as you see it (much as I am), but let's not try and point score based on the credibility of what you're basing your opinion on.

So you've accused me of something I'm no more guilty of doing than anyone else, and are now having a bit of a strop after being pulled up for it. Twice. Instead of acting like a spoilt, chastised teenager, you could always attempt to explain how what I did was so fundamentally different to what Mellotron did, much as I am trying to show that we are simply drawing differing opinions based on the same resources and blaming different people.

Yet again, I think this issue is not with your assumption, it's then that you move into that assumption being FACT by stating that Vicente HAS gone down in your estimation because of your guesswork!

If you'd said "Vicente would go down in my estimation if it's true he is screwing us around etc" no one would have a problem with that, in fact most would agree with you.

It's the bit where he HAS gone down in your estimation that is a bit ridiculous, because like with my agent THEORY, none of us (not even Bozza) know for definite exactly what has actually happened.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Big laughs! This is what you said:

You decided it sounds like it is 100% the agent's fault! I'm not quite sure how you can dress this up any other way! I don't blame you for it, you're only saying it as you see it (much as I am), but let's not try and point score based on the credibility of what you're basing your opinion on.

So you've accused me of something I'm no more guilty of doing than anyone else, and are now having a bit of a strop after being pulled up for it. Twice. Instead of acting like a spoilt, chastised teenager, you could always attempt to explain how what I did was so fundamentally different to what Mellotron did, much as I am trying to show that we are simply drawing differing opinions based on the same resources and blaming different people.

At no point have you said that your conclusions were made too hastily, just "Well, I'm not the only one doing it"

And then you claim I'M the one acting like a teenager. Brilliant.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Yet again, I think this issue is not with your assumption, it's then that you move into that assumption being FACT by stating that Vicente HAS gone down in your estimation because of your guesswork!

If you'd said "Vicente would go down in my estimation if it's true he is screwing us around etc" no one would have a problem with that, in fact most would agree with you.

Nail has been hit

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Also, you've kind of shot yourself in the foot there by highlighting Mellotron saying "For me, SUGGESTS". He was saying how it appeared.

You said Vicente HAD gone down in your estimations.

If you still don't get the difference then there's no point trying again.

 

[Simster]

At no point have you said that your conclusions were made too hastily, just "Well, I'm not the only one doing it"

Yes, of course I'm being hasty. I have no idea on the real truth any more than anyone else. It just amuses me that people quickly berate an agent. We all know they do f*** all for a (very healthy) living, but that doesn't mean they are always wrong. I've always felt it was perfectly possible for him to have agreed a contract a while ago. I still think he owes the club, really.

And then you claim I'M the one acting like a teenager. Brilliant.

You are. Read your posts on this thread. Two lame, barbed comments to Mellotron that serve no purpose to the discussion. I'll even point them out to you: #25 and #28.

There really is little point to continuing this discussion is there?

 

[Gritt23]

Ok, along with most people on here, I actually KNOW very little of the situation, but my take is probably this.

Vicente has indicated to the club that he'd like to return next season, and maybe even longer. Then handed it to his agent to get him a good deal, and he's gone off with teh family at a key time.

The agent has perhaps over-played the "we can get a better deal elsewhere" card, while also telling us how happy and committed the player is to Brighton, and the project we have going on here.

The club have picked their moment and basically said, ok you say he wants to play here, so BANG there's the contract extended for next year, if you have a problem with that, you've been lying to us. Oh, and if these other clubs you are talking about are as keen as you say, then they won't have a problem stumping up a bit of a transfer fee will they.

Agent now has to put his cards on the table. If there are other clubs who are offering to splash the cash on much better payment terms, then they will be keen enough to throw us £500k to compensate for the work we've done to get him fit. If he's making it up, then time to stop trying to use that as a negotiating tool, and just agree this new deal that we've wanted him to sign all along.

Basically, it's a poker game, and we've called the agents hand. Show us what you've got. I don't believe we would have done this if the player doesn't want to return.

But again, just to repeat, I actually KNOW absolutely NOTHING of the details!