Are You For The Death Penalty?

[driddles]

Would not stop anyone from killing. It's not like at the hight of your frenzy you will say 'oh well I'll just stab them in the leg so I don't get executed'. What about the drunk drivers who kill someone - you want to execute them?

 

[alan partridge]

I would love it to be brought back, although i don't think it ever can.

With forensic science as good as it is these days i think mistakes would be at a minimum. And a death row like prison where someone can stay in prison till such a date they're executed would mean any chance of a mistake could be found out.

as you say, happy seagull, mistakes at a minimum. which kind of suggests to me that even you think one or two will still slip through

i have other reasons for not agreeing with the death penalty, but for me there is only one argument against it. mistakes are made. doesn't matter if its even only one out of a million, you can't have the possibility of taking an innocent man's life

i agree with nmh about real justice. sadly though nothing is going to change the way that poor family will feel about their daughter

 

[BensGrandad]

Large One:

Ask any officer connected with the Guildford Four and they will tell you that they got the correct men but one officer exagerated his evidence to ensure a conviction and they subsequently got off. The police are convinced that they had the correct men as they have never re-opened the case to look for any body else.

It has never been established whether when Craig told Bentley ' give it to him' he meant shoot him or give him the gun. Craig has been inside a number of times since then also I believe for murder again but I may be mistaken.

Due to the advances of DNA it is highly unlikely that there would be many if any wrong convictions for murder now and thi8s is improving all of the time.. In fact DNA has established that James Hanratty (the A6 murder) did commit the offense and was rightly hanged.

 

[alan partridge]

Large One:

Ask any officer connected with the Guildford Four and they will tell you that they got the correct men but one officer exagerated his evidence to ensure a conviction and they subsequently got off. The police are convinced that they had the correct men as they have never re-opened the case to look for any body else.

It has never been established whether when Craig told Bentley ' give it to him' he meant shoot him or give him the gun. Craig has been inside a number of times since then also I believe for murder again but I may be mistaken.

Due to the advances of DNA it is highly unlikely that there would be many if any wrong convictions for murder now and thi8s is improving all of the time.. In fact DNA has established that James Hanratty (the A6 murder) did commit the offense and was rightly hanged.

i'm not surprised any officer connected with the guildford 4 case would say they got the right men!

 

[Gwylan]

Ask any officer connected with the Guildford Four and they will tell you that they got the correct men but one officer exagerated his evidence to ensure a conviction and they subsequently got off. The police are convinced that they had the correct men as they have never re-opened the case to look for any body else.

It has never been established whether when Craig told Bentley ' give it to him' he meant shoot him or give him the gun. Craig has been inside a number of times since then also I believe for murder again but I may be mistaken.

They didn't get off, they were convicted and spent several years inside. It was only after many attempts to the Appeal Court that the conviction was quashed. I like the way that you use 'exaggerated his evidence' as a synonym for lied, but the Guildford Four case has had profound implications for the justice system. No longer following this case, and several others, will police evidence be accepted as the truth.

As for your suggestion that the police still feel that they had the right people, if true (and certainly it's not a view held by senior police), it says more about the Surrey police than it does about the Guildford Four - the evidence for their innocence is overwhelming.

I don't know where you get the idea that Christopher Craig is a career criminal. He served a ten year sentence and was released, spending his life working as a plumber in Bedfordshire. Bentley, of course, was posthumously pardoned after a modern court took his mental age and his epilepsy into account.

It hasn't just been these miscarriages of justice, you can add the Birmingham Six, Judith Ward, Stefan Kisko, the Cardiff Three, the Bridgewater Four etc, etc to a long list.

Personally speaking, I would not be in favour of the death penalty even if it were guaranteed that there was no miscarriage of justice. Murder is murder whether it is by an individual or state-sanctioned.

But for most people, the propensity of the police to look to frame a convenient scapegoat will ensure that the death penalty will never be brought back.

 

[Marshy]

We pay a fortune to let them rot in jail tho.


String em up I say.

 

[Dandyman]

They didn't get off, they were convicted and spent several years inside. It was only after many attempts to the Appeal Court that the conviction was quashed. I like the way that you use 'exaggerated his evidence' as a synonym for lied, but the Guildford Four case has had profound implications for the justice system. No longer following this case, and several others, will police evidence be accepted as the truth.

As for your suggestion that the police still feel that they had the right people, if true (and certainly it's not a view held by senior police), it says more about the Surrey police than it does about the Guildford Four - the evidence for their innocence is overwhelming.

I don't know where you get the idea that Christopher Craig is a career criminal. He served a ten year sentence and was released, spending his life working as a plumber in Bedfordshire. Bentley, of course, was posthumously pardoned after a modern court took his mental age and his epilepsy into account.

It hasn't just been these miscarriages of justice, you can add the Birmingham Six, Judith Ward, Stefan Kisko, the Cardiff Three, the Bridgewater Four etc, etc to a long list.

Personally speaking, I would not be in favour of the death penalty even if it were guaranteed that there was no miscarriage of justice. Murder is murder whether it is by an individual or state-sanctioned.

But for most people, the propensity of the police to look to frame a convenient scapegoat will ensure that the death penalty will never be brought back.

My thoughts in a nutshell - well said, that man.

 

[Herne Hill Seagull]

If even one innocent person could be executed, you have an unarguable case for not using capital punishment. "Mistakes kept to a minimum"? "Highly unlikely there would be many if any wrong convictions.."? Not even remotely close to being certain enough.

And if that mistake were made on a friend or relative of a supporter of capital punishment, would they still back it?

And what of the moral issues, quite apart from the practical consideration that you could hang the wrong person? Where would it stop? As one of the newspapers reported this morning, if we're to kill killers, should the state also organise the rape of rapists? That kind of Old Testament 'eye for an eye' punishment has no place in a society which flatters itself that it's civilised.

Also, from an entirely pragmatic point of view, what difference would it make? The US, which does execute people in some states, still has a massive murder rate. Not exactly working as a deterrent is it? Looks awfully like it's just being used as a mechanism to satisfy people's lust for revenge.

 

[Albion Dan]

We pay a fortune to let them rot in jail tho.


String em up I say.

This is the weakest and most ignorant pro argument of the lot mate, in the states when a convict goes onto Death Row they spend years and years there until they are finally fried, and cost far more than the avearge inmate on the block to look after as the have permanent solitary confinement and special security arrangements. Add to that all of the extra appeal procedures.

 

[chez]

Only if it's a cast iron case, you cant have a shadow of doubt if your gonna kill someone for an offence. Nonces should have their bollocks cut off before their electricuted.

 

[tedebear]

I can't support the death penalty - but my problem remains that if someone ever hurt or killed the people I love or broke into our house and hurt us - then I'd want to see them dead, simple as!!

So that leaves in a predicament - I don't like the philospohpy of an eye for an eye - it means you've just done what the aggressor did in the first place.....

Secondly there are some cases where it is not clear cut - a posthumous pardon is worth nothing...if we can't guarantee we can get it right in the first instance then we can't do it....

 

[Braders]

no,nobody deserves to die !

 

[zefarelly]

yes they do Braders! everybody dies eventually some people should do earlier than others, for many reasons

an eye for an eye isnt the right way. but Id gladly take a large bat to anyone I found endangering my loved ones, or an intruder in my house for that matter, cross my doorstep and Im in charge (some of the time )

I firmly believe that convicted kiddy fiddlers should be castrated at the very least.

I dont agree with paying taxes to keep convicted killers and brutal sex offenders fed watered, warm and dry, theres innocent peole out there living on the streets! make em suffer, and wish they where dead !

I think we should have the stocks back in the town square . . . .itd teach the little shyster vandals a thing or two when they get caught, and it would work wonders in the community, bringing people together on a Saturday morning, and helping the greengrocer make a better living out of rotten tomatoes

 

[Simster]

Only if it's a cast iron case, you cant have a shadow of doubt if your gonna kill someone for an offence. Nonces should have their bollocks cut off before their electricuted.

Sorry, crap argument. We shouldn't be sending people to prison for life unless we have a shadow of doubt. In the eyes of the law, you cannot distinguish between "guilty" and "definitely guilty"

 

[Tazman]

Murdering paedo's and serial killers....YES def, kill them all.

 

[Marshy]

This is the weakest and most ignorant pro argument of the lot mate, in the states when a convict goes onto Death Row they spend years and years there until they are finally fried, and cost far more than the avearge inmate on the block to look after as the have permanent solitary confinement and special security arrangements. Add to that all of the extra appeal procedures

Sorry but i think a life for a life is fair.

I wonder how different your opinion would be if it was your brother, sister or son for example that had been killed ?
I know if it was mine i would pull the leaver myself and would walk away with a clear conscience no problems.

In some cases these people even admit to it. So why not ?

And having the death penalty might make some people think twice before doing it....they know they will be out after 15 years at worst, hardly seems fair does it ?

 

[Marshy]

And I was looking frward to Albion Dans response....

Best bit of debate on here for ages !

 

[Herne Hill Seagull]

And having the death penalty might make some people think twice before doing it....

Just like in America, eh Marshy?

And how would your conscience feel if you found out later that you'd pulled the lever on the wrong person? That you, just as your hypothetical killer of a brother, sister, son had done, had taken an innocent life. The only people who know in every case who the offender is, is the offender. The tiniest margin of error means capital punishment cannot happen.

 

[Gwylan]

I wonder how different your opinion would be if it was your brother, sister or son for example that had been killed ?
I know if it was mine i would pull the leaver myself and would walk away with a clear conscience no problems.

My views wouldn't change one iota. I disagree with capital punishment. Full stop.

That's not, "I disagree with capital punishment provided that the murderer's victim wasn't someone I knew".

And my views wouldn't change if the defendant admitted his guilt either.

There are plenty of practical arguments against the ultimate sanction but the moral one is the strongest for me.

 

[zefarelly]

the world is over populated as is this country so a few 'mistakes' wont do any harm

you can start in Whitehawk and head north through Moulsecoombe, up to Croydon, not forgetting Crawley on the way