Are you Catholic? Do you give a damn that the Pope is coming?

[ATFC Seagull]

This:

An exerpt from Austin Klines very informative piece concerning Herr Ratfinger:

"Joseph Ratzinger joined the Hitler Youth in 1941 when, according to him and his supporters, it became compulsory for all German boys. Millions of Germans were in a position similar to that of Joseph Ratzinger and his family, so why spend so much time focusing on him? Because he is no longer merely Joseph Ratzinger, or even a Catholic Cardinal — he is now Pope Benedict XVI. None of the other Germans who joined the Hitler Youth, were part of the military in Nazi Germany, lived near a concentration camp, and watched Jews being rounded up for death camps has ever become pope.

The pope is supposed to be the successor of Peter, leader of the Christian Church, and symbol of unity for all Christendom. The past actions — or inactions — of such a person matter a great deal if anyone is going to treat him as any sort of moral authority. Ratzinger’s recollections of his youth in Nazi Germany makes it seem as though all the problems, violence, and hatred existed outside his local community. There is no recognition that resistance to the Nazis existed — or was needed — just outside his door."

Now I won't say anything more.

You've completely ignored my point though, despite the fact that I clearly laid it out. As a Christian, I believe in forgiveness of great sinners, let alone someone who followed the masses in a difficult time. key saints are converted persecutors of Christians, as well as many other sins. There is no belief in the Catholic church that the Pope has been some sort of godly body since birth - his life as a child matters not one bit in terms of his fitness to do his current job.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

You've completely ignored my point though, despite the fact that I clearly laid it out. As a Christian, I believe in forgiveness of great sinners, let alone someone who followed the masses in a difficult time. key saints are converted persecutors of Christians, as well as many other sins. There is no belief in the Catholic church that the Pope has been some sort of godly body since birth - his life as a child matters not one bit in terms of his fitness to do his current job.

My point is that, as Pope, Herr Ratzinger, is responsible for the pastoral care of all Catholics, it means things like...oh I don't know, confessing your sins, showing contrition for your misdeeds, honesty...that sort of stuff.

His personal morality must be above question. Fair enough if he was "forced" to join the Hitler Youth, my point is that Traunstein (where he grew up) is not a typical German town.
There were several residents who refused to support the Nazis, some alive today, whose resistance caused them severe hardships. Hell, some of them even remember that Ratzingers Dad was an opponent of the Nazis...they also remember that Ratzinger juniour was pretty enthusiastic about Hitler and,whilst not an exceptionally gifted Nazi, he was happy to go along with them.

Ratzinger has consistently refused to honestly answer questions related to this period in his past, why did he not go to jail as others did, for conscientious objection to the regimé?

The guys entire history, in faith as well as in person, is typified by covering up, keeping the peace, not rocking the boat, not punishing pervert priests, not awknowleging his own role in all of this.

Like I say, I'm not the Popes PR man, I accept he is entitled to some skeletons in his cupboards, but he knows he can never fess up to any alliegiance to the third reich...What would the opponents of the Mother Church do with that!, but similarly he can't stand up there telling you, me or anyone else how to behave whilst not accepting his own flaws.

Morally, the Pope is bankrupt IMO.

P.S. You do like having the last word...you must be HELL to live with.

 

[Stoo82]

You'd think the second world war happened last week they way some people go on about it.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

You'd think the second world war happened last week they way some people go on about it.

Oh, go and play with your conspiracy theories mate.

This is a real life issue, related to proper historical events.

Therefore it will have no interest for you.

 

[Stoo82]

Oh, go and play with your conspiracy theories mate.

This is a real life issue, related to proper historical events.

Therefore it will have no interest for you.

Wow. You must have a lot of pain in your life.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Wow. You must have a lot of pain in your life.

Yes, yes I have.

Hence sitting on here at near midnight trying to educate the ignorant.

Seriously though Stoo..Surely there are some more interesting debates for you to get embroiled in?

Whether or not the head of the Catholic church is , in fact, a lying hypocrite who is leading millions of blinkered idiots to hell in a handcart, will not interest you.

Not whilst there are secret world cabals of crypto-nazis, evil lizards and uber zionists for you and other truth seekers to contend with.

Carry on.

 

[Stoo82]

Yes, yes I have.

Hence sitting on here at near midnight trying to educate the ignorant.

Seriously though Stoo..Surely there are some more interesting debates for you to get embroiled in?

Whether or not the head of the Catholic church is , in fact, a lying hypocrite who is leading millions of blinkered idiots to hell in a handcart, will not interest you.

Not whilst there are secret world cabals of crypto-nazis, evil lizards and uber zionists for you and other truth seekers to contend with.

Carry on.

Whats your problem with me?

I don't believe in all those things. I don't belive Nazis are on the moon or Hitler is still alive in South Africa. I said there were questions about 9/11. And there are. I never bring it up anyway.

If that means I'm not allowed a view on anything else, then fine. Or, you could put me on ignore and then you won't have to read anything I write.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Whats your problem with me?

I don't believe there are all those things. I don't belive Nazis are on the moon or Hitler is still alive in South Africa. I said there were questions about 9/11. And there are. I never bring it up anyway.

If that means I'm not allowed a view on anything else, then fine. Or, you could put me on ignore and then you won't have to read anything I write.

Thats too easy fella.

It just amazes me that there are live issues here, issues that really matter, which the entire media seem happy to ignore or overlook.

I would have thought that this stuff was right up your street.

Why would'nt you turn your gaze on subjects like this rather than waste your energies on trying to uncover some imaginary plot to enslave the world?

It's up to you I guess.

No problem with you as it goes.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

i was raised a (strict) catholic and went to newman.
after being ...
sworn at
spat at
shot at
and ....
seeing my mate blown to fuckin pieces during my 3 tours in northern ireland in the late 1970's.....
i turned my back on religion in general and Catholicism in particular.


pope?
f*** OFF.

god?
SAME

Just out of interest did you turn your back on your country and the people who run it?

Given that they are very much part of the reason your friend sadly lost his life.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

It is interesting that the Catholic Church is being slated for not opposing the Nazis and yet this fellow on the left openly tried to appease the Nazis.

 

[ROKERITE]

It is interesting that the Catholic Church is being slated for not opposing the Nazis and yet this fellow on the left openly tried to appease the Nazis.

What an ignorant and silly comment.

 

[8ace]

It is interesting that the Catholic Church is being slated for not opposing the Nazis and yet this fellow on the left openly tried to appease the Nazis.

Poor old Nev only gave in as the evil Nazis wouldn't let him smoke in the building.

 

[ROKERITE]

the old pope was a much nicer person than this nobhead, he sounds more like a forum troll than a pope.

I don't believe John Paul 2nd was any nicer than the current fellow, he just portrayed a nicer image. and like so much of life perception is so important.
All the harm being done now is merely a continuation of that done under Benedict's predecessor.
There has been much talk over the years about "what if" Hitler had been assassinated in 1938-9. I believe sincerely, and I do not say this to shock or annoy RC's, the world would have been a better place if the chap who attempted to kill JP2 soon after he became head of the church had been a better shot. If JP2 had died within months of his accession, and been replaced by a more liberal successor, then tens of millions around the globe, and the planet itself, may not have endured such suffering.

 

[Dandyman]

Absolute bollocks. He was saying that what the Nazis did shows people who had no time for God. I think anyone can agree with that. He wasn't blaming atheism, he was trying to distance those fuckers from Catholicism.

He addresses the issue that most people are using to have a go at him and the church, and still some are trying to turn it into an issue.

Simply does not wash. The Pope in the 1930's described Franco as "a Christian Gentleman" and the Vatican were enthusiastic backers of fascism in Italy, Croatia, Spain, Portugal and elsewhere.

The Nazis were not athiests and Hitler wrote to one of his Generals declaring himself a believing Roman Catholic.


All that aside, what right does a foreign priest who leads what is a minority religion in this country have to dictate to us how we run our affairs?

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

What an ignorant and silly comment.

Really?

Please explain Chamberlain's handing over Czech lands to Hitler without their approval just to appease him.

These actions basically signed the death warrant for 300,000 Jews.

Or didn't you know that?

 

[Stoo82]

Thats too easy fella.

It just amazes me that there are live issues here, issues that really matter, which the entire media seem happy to ignore or overlook.

I would have thought that this stuff was right up your street.

Why would'nt you turn your gaze on subjects like this rather than waste your energies on trying to uncover some imaginary plot to enslave the world?

It's up to you I guess.

No problem with you as it goes.

You don't know me at all. Who's trying to 'uncover some imaginary plot to enslave the world?'

On the one hand 'the entire media seem happy to ignore or overlook' the cover up of pedo priests in the Catholic Church. Maybe because there isn't one and its just a conspiracy.

Anyway, you clearly have no respect for me (even though you don't know me).

 

[Westdene Seagull]

What an ignorant and silly comment.

Not sure why you think it was an ignorant comment. At the time Chamberlian was keen to avoid war even if it meant turning a blind eye to what the Nazis were doing in the rest of Europe.

 

[nawtygully]

i have some magic beans for sale if you beleive that you will beleive that twaddle he spouts!

 

[ROKERITE]

Really?

Please explain Chamberlain's handing over Czech lands to Hitler without their approval just to appease him.

These actions basically signed the death warrant for 300,000 Jews.

Or didn't you know that?

"Handing Over Czech lands to Hitler"? You have a mistaken impression of Chamberlain and GB's power in 1938. Chamberlain's comments regarding Czechoslovakia in 1938 were hardly something he or we could be proud of, but the reality was that ill-prepared as were were in 1939, we were even less ready in '38. We took our stand when it was both obvious we had to, and just possible that we could. GB made it clear which side it was on in the battle between good and evil; more than can be said for The Vatican.

 

[sten_super]

Not sure why you think it was an ignorant comment. At the time Chamberlian was keen to avoid war even if it meant turning a blind eye to what the Nazis were doing in the rest of Europe.

I think this example nicely illustrates the point that people (especially organisations, where collective decision-making is more prevalent) often follow the path of least resistance, and make life as easy for themselves as possible. Chamberlain did it, and the Vatican do it. They may well have said that Franco was a bloody nice chap, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they believed it, does it? It would hardly be the first or last time that they've told a few porkies to keep the peace.

I am somewhat bemused by this Pope and his rather right-wing approach to life. However, it's impossible to tell how much of that he was born with and how much is simply him fronting up for the hardliners within the Vatican.

I don't really have a problem with the Pope visiting these shores - we've certainly had plenty of leaders with worse histories in the past - or with the tax money being used to ferry him around. What I find most bemusing is the seeming wall-to-wall media coverage. As I understand it, there are an estimated 6m Roman Catholics in this country. That is approximately 10%. I appreciate that the visit of the Pope might be a big deal to them, but a large portion of the remaining 90% don't give a monkeys. Why is it getting such a ridiculous level of coverage?