Are Engerlund better WITHOUT Terry and Lampard?

[Dandyman]

Two convincing wins without the Billy Big Bollocks pair, does this mean a better team ? Discuss.

 

[Scampi]

I think England are better when they aren't trying to shoehorn Gerrard and Lampard into the same team.

 

[Mendoza]

Terry is the problem. The rest of the squad appear more relaxed when he's not around. Not sure why though

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Terry is extraordinarily overrated anyway.

The commentators see him sticking his thick head in where it hurts every so often and lumping a few clearances and conclude he's the new Bobby Moore, when in reality he's slow, agricultural and has the turning circle of an oil tanker.

A depressing but classic reflection on English football sometimes when we rate effort and perceived passion over style or ability.

 

[KZNSeagull]

The key word here is team. England have to find their best team, which is not necessarily the best 11 individual players. As they have won two games without Ferdinand, Lampard and Terry, I see no reason to pick them next time around unless the others get injured or until the others mess up. Johnson's performances should also have finally proved that there is no place for Beckham anymore.

England have often played better in the past in tournaments when "lesser" players were forced into the teams through injuries and suspension - 1986 World Cup is a good example when Robson and Wilkins were replaced by Reid and Hodge and Hateley was dropped for Beardsley. Everybody wrote them off (even though with those 3 they were utter toilet) but suddenly they played much, much better.

Capello said when he took the job that he wanted to find the best team and that may mean some lesser players getting chance if they were the best players for the team. He now has that chance and I hope that he takes it. If that means putting some so-called superstars noses out of joint, then so be it.

 

[Marshy]

They will be back and Gerrard will be pushed to the left.... :-(

 

[CHAPPERS]

Terry is the problem. The rest of the squad appear more relaxed when he's not around. Not sure why though

Yep, agree with this and said the exact same thing last night. No panicking or hasty clearances when they aren't needed.

Without Lampard the midfield passing seems more fluent and the ball gets wide quicker. Lampard always seems to slow the play down and plays a lot of misplaced passes, or passes the ball in the air not along the ground over short distances.

 

[sten_super]

Terry is extraordinarily overrated anyway.

The commentators see him sticking his thick head in where it hurts every so often and lumping a few clearances and conclude he's the new Bobby Moore, when in reality he's slow, agricultural and has the turning circle of an oil tanker.

A depressing but classic reflection on English football sometimes when we rate effort and perceived passion over style or ability.

I can't see Terry getting back in the team for the next game, because I think him and Jagielka are too similar. We'd be horribly short on pace at the back if it was those two in partnership. Terry can also be horribly exposed at times.

As for Lampard, I suspect Capello will shoehorn him back in, probably by pushing Gerrard out left again, but for me that would be a crazy decision. I think we should be looking to start with Gerrard alongside Barry (or another defensive midfielder) and then bringing on Lampard for one of them if attempting to keep possession late in a game.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Yep, agree with this and said the exact same thing last night. No panicking or hasty clearances when they aren't needed.

Without Lampard the midfield passing seems more fluent and the ball gets wide quicker. Lampard always seems to slow the play down and plays a lot of misplaced passes, or passes the ball in the air not along the ground over short distances.

Funny, I think Gerrard is as guilty of the flash passes as Lampard is- always thought he was trying to out-Beckham Beckham. Perhaps it just seems better when we only have one of them needlessly giving the ball away every so often, rather than two?

 

[Brovion]

Certainly better without Lampard and Gerrard together. I know this debate has been done to death but together they do seem to disappear into a black hole. Why? who knows. It's a bit of a pisser that've we've got two good players for one position when for others we've hardly got one decent first choice, but that's the way it goes sometime and contributes to the overall 'curate's egg' feel about England.

So Gerrard first choice, Lampard as his back-up. DON'T try and shoe-horn them in, they both seem to end up wondering if they're treading on the other's toes.

And maybe, as Mendoza says, the squad is a happier place without Terry around?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Definitely regarding Lampard, the team has been better without him for the past 6 years whenever he has been out. He is a player you have to shape a midfield around. Look at Chelsea, he has Mikel and Essien clearing up behind him. I'm not saying Barry is ideal, but with Rooney dropping deeper and tackling back, Gerrard can play his best role as an attacking central midfielder. Lampard should only play if Gerrard or Rooney are out of the team. This has been obvious for years.

Terry has been responsible for several managers getting sacked at Chelsea, and several players leaving. His speech at the World Cup was an utter disgrace questioning the manager in the middle of a tournament, and you could tell the rest of the squad was shocked, if not outraged he did that, effectively undermining Gerrard as captain in the process. He is overrated as well, I thought he had a poor world cup, and was mostly to blame for the shambles against Germany as it was his responsibility to organise that defence.

I would like to see Capello stick with this younger looking team, they look hungry which is something we've missed for a while. Steven Gerrard is turning out to be a fantastic captain as well. I did question him getting it, but he is proving to be every bit as influencial as Bryan Robson was in his hay day.

 

[Marshy]

Ferdinand, Terry and Lampard will all come back in..even if he might try and make a point of not picing them for that first game back..

 

[Cecil]

Capello seems to rate Jagielka and if he hadn't been coming back from injury I think he would have taken him to world cup. Weather or not he would leave Terry out for him I'm not so sure.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Missed last nights game due to work: who played with Jagielka at centre half...Cahill?

 

[Stumpy Tim]

Yep, agree with this and said the exact same thing last night. No panicking or hasty clearances when they aren't needed.

Without Lampard the midfield passing seems more fluent and the ball gets wide quicker. Lampard always seems to slow the play down and plays a lot of misplaced passes, or passes the ball in the air not along the ground over short distances.

This

I would bring Ferdinand back in, but Terry & Lampard should be on the bench at best

 

[Marc]

The problem is we don't have world class players, sure they play well as a team but against stronger opposition we'd roll over, currently I'm concerned about:
Milner
Glen Johnson
SWP
Carrick
Bent
Crouch
Hart
Lescott
Jagielka

Sure they have time to get better but they're just not would class yet.

 

[tonymgc]

Simple answer yes.
There was no need to try shoe horning two similar players into one team with Lampards absense & no one can argue how much better & more balanced the whole team looked with a proper left mid.
As for John Terry i've always said ability wise he's no better than Adam Virgo but has been lucky enough to play along side some of the world best defenders his whole career which has made him look better than the average league one player he really is. However he really got found out in the world cup playing alongside Upson.
Jagielka is the future of Englands defence & it would be the biggest mistake of the Capello era to drop him now

 

[Giraffe]

I would stick with the team we have played in the last two. No room for Terry or even Ferdinand in my view. Lampard should be backup for Gerrard, so in the squad but not starting.

 

[sten_super]

Missed last nights game due to work: who played with Jagielka at centre half...Cahill?

Lescott, presumably due to the time he spent playing alongside Jagielka at Everton, and they worked well as a partnership.

The problem is we don't have world class players, sure they play well as a team but against stronger opposition we'd roll over, currently I'm concerned about:
Milner
Glen Johnson
SWP
Carrick
Bent
Crouch
Hart
Lescott
Jagielka

Sure they have time to get better but they're just not would class yet.

But the best way for them to get better is increased exposure to the international game. I'd much rather them than bringing back people like Terry and Lampard for one final hurrah at the Euros. IMHO we need to be looking longer-term than that.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

As for John Terry i've always said ability wise he's no better than Adam Virgo but has been lucky enough to play along side some of the world best defenders his whole career which has made him look better than the average league one player he really is. However he really got found out in the world cup playing alongside Upson.

An embarrassingly accurate (for John Terry) assessment

Painful, isn't it, that the idiot earns £130,000 a week for essentially piggybacking off other people's ability?